PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:30 am

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:30 am

Hi Sophia,
I totally agree that these are 2 different men.
I did dig very deep into New England Nickolis and was imagining what a difficult life he came to.
If he was a professor in St. Petersburg, it makes me sad how much his life would have changed. Even as a older man he was working difficult jobs and moving a lot. During the steam railroad time, it appears, without his family.
But such is the story for so many.
And the connection to weaving is spread so far across the paternal side of my family.
Thank you for the link. I really love looking at history like that.
Even if it ends up not being my immediate family, it is the story we all are part of in this country. Very interesting.
And thank you for the "find in page" hint. Things like that are so helpful. Wish I'd used it sooner!
It's beginning to become very obvious that many immigrants did not know their exact birth dates!

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Sophia — Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:08 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 11:08 am

Hi Shannon,
I meant to add a few words about Nikolai. I think that you are dealing with two different men named Nikolai, one in Ohio (Sawitzky) and one in New England (Sadulsky).
For the New England Nick, I know you already have a stack of documents on him, but let me just add some thoughts. In the 1930 census, it is "Nicholas Sidulsky" and he is a laborer for the Boston & Maine Railroad Construction Crew. As such, he might have been fairly mobile, living in different places at different times as required by the job. In the World War I Draft Registration document, he was working for the Hunter Machine Company in North Adams, Berkshire, Massachusetts. That could well have drawn on the same skillset. I found a lovely historical book about North Adams, here:
https://ia904500.us.archive.org/7/items/northadamsmassac00nortrich/northadamsmassac00nortrich.pdf
If you use your browser's "Find in page" function, you can find things in this book about both the Boston & Maine Railroad and the Hunter Machine Company. I like this sentence, "The company has a reputation all over the country for the excellence and superiority of its work, and there are few woolen mills that do not contain machines made at the Hunter plant." I thought it might interest you, given your family's connection to weaving.
Also note on Nick's WWI registration form this wording about his birth year, "did not know for sure." How refreshing! And it does help make sense of his changing answers to questions about his age, throughout these documents.
Enjoy!
Sophia

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Fri Sep 15, 2023 8:35 am

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 8:35 am

Thank you Sophia!
Definitely will add that extra passenger on the list to my research. Again an extra passenger that might be a small lead.
I had looked through the Nick list for such names but didn't on Andrews!
And, Yes, I learned quickly that that Nowak name was super common. That's ok, I'm determined!
Thank you very much for your input. Oh, and I have been attempting to search through those Lipniki church records.
Nothing yet, but maybe with a new name version, I might get lucky.
I hope you also have a wonderful weekend!

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Sophia — Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:54 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:54 am

Shannon207 wrote:

Hello Everyone,
I've been researching the Nick in Connecticut extensively. Including his wife. But am not finding any real connection to Andrew or similar parents names. And I couldn't find a ship list for him. And no connection to Ohio.

But, I was wondering what you guys thought about this passenger list.

I've added the images for the passenger list, along with Andrew's for comparison, and info breakdowns. So you wouldn't have to search through this post. Andrew is line 18 and Nick is line 13. No 2nd page for him.
There's also another smaller document that shows more clearly the info on Nicks list. I don't know what this document is.
The last name is far off, but when compared to the name of brother on Andrews Passenger list, not so far.
He is going to Cleveland also. He is probably 8-10 years older than what Andrew might be and lists Wilna as a last residence. 1906 arrival. Going to see a friend called Wasili Ribka.

I did a quick search of Rybka just for the fun of it and did find a male child with no first name listed with parents of Rybka and Nowak born in Poland. Nowak is suppose to be Andrew's Mothers last name. I've included that screenshot. I know this means nothing, but was interesting to add to the many ideas. Maybe a relative of Andrew's Mom.
Anyway, would love your thoughts. Don't feel bad if you think it is unlikely

Hi Shannon,
I thought we had come about as far as we could with research on this family, but I see you have been busy finding interesting documents. Very interesting!
I think there has to be a connection between your Andrew and this Nicolai Sawitzky who arrived in 1906. I cannot see a connection between the surname Szadulski and the surname Sawitzky, but these two men must be related somehow (he shows up as Nikolai Szadwiski on Andrew's manifest). Did you notice, on Nicolai's manifest, the person on line 20? He is Stanislaw Sawitzky, also from Wilna, but headed to Philadelphia, to his brother Jan Sawitzky. (For Polish spelling, I might go with Sawicki). You might want to add those two names to a file that I might label "Who Are These Guys?" for random researching when you have the time.
You asked about the smaller document with Nick's immigration info - - this is just an index card that made it easier for officials to find people on ship manifests, when a certificate of arrival was requested. Turns out, they are handy for genealogists, but really none of these documents were originally designed with the delight of genealogists in mind.
Regarding the surname Nowak, it is one of the most prevalent surnames in all of Poland (maybe a quarter of a million people, out of a population of 38 million). Take a look at this surname distribution map for the name Nowak:
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Nowak
Compare that to Sawicki:
https://nazwiska-polskie.pl/Sawicki
Researching a Nowak in Poland is like researching a Smith in North America.
Thanks for sharing these interesting documents. And thanks for always replying to people who contribute - - that is very inspiring to those who volunteer here.
Best wishes for a happy weekend,
Sophia

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Thu Sep 14, 2023 12:38 pm

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 12:38 pm

Oops!
Need a second post for that number of documents.
And they didn't load in order I expected. Sorry about that.

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Thu Sep 14, 2023 12:35 pm

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 12:35 pm

Hello Everyone,
I've been researching the Nick in Connecticut extensively. Including his wife. But am not finding any real connection to Andrew or similar parents names. And I couldn't find a ship list for him. And no connection to Ohio.

But, I was wondering what you guys thought about this passenger list.

I've added the images for the passenger list, along with Andrew's for comparison, and info breakdowns. So you wouldn't have to search through this post. Andrew is line 18 and Nick is line 13. No 2nd page for him.
There's also another smaller document that shows more clearly the info on Nicks list. I don't know what this document is.
The last name is far off, but when compared to the name of brother on Andrews Passenger list, not so far.
He is going to Cleveland also. He is probably 8-10 years older than what Andrew might be and lists Wilna as a last residence. 1906 arrival. Going to see a friend called Wasili Ribka.

I did a quick search of Rybka just for the fun of it and did find a male child with no first name listed with parents of Rybka and Nowak born in Poland. Nowak is suppose to be Andrew's Mothers last name. I've included that screenshot. I know this means nothing, but was interesting to add to the many ideas. Maybe a relative of Andrew's Mom.
Anyway, would love your thoughts. Don't feel bad if you think it is unlikely

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:54 am

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:54 am

Thank you for these suggestions on the last name. I have been kinda floundering trying to focus on what could be the correct spelling. But this variation I have not considered much.
I have also found no Mikołaj in Ohio. But I have kept the suggestion for Nicholas in Connecticut.

I guess I've struggled with not being able to connect Andrew or a Theodor, or a Nowak (parents) to verify things.
But I guess I'm working backwards, and should focus on finding a Mikołaj connection since that is in the US.
I have not looked at the Lipniszki parish records yet, but am going to try to do that today with a last name closer to what you suggest.
Thank you very much. Each suggestion helps me focus and sort through all the searching ideas!

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

mm_88 — Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:14 am

Author: mm_88

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:14 am

Hi Shannon,

Looking at Andrew's documents and the various versions of his name, I think his last name was Szadurski/Szadulski. In his passenger list, it is Szadulski. In his neutralization documents, it is Shadursky. I think that his surname could start with SZ, but maybe it was easier to pronounce it with S instead. The same thing with the letter R -> L.
If you look at the surnames that appeared in today's Lithuania and Belarus you will find some records for Szadurski, but very little for Szadulski. https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=23lt&rid=B&search_lastname=szadurski&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&exac=1
I think that Sadowski sounds too different from Sadulski/Szadulski...

According to Andrew's passenger list, Mikołaj lived in Amherst, Ohio. I didn't find any trace of him in this area. Sophia has found some documents for Nicholas Frederic Sadulski in Connecticut (posted in April). This Nicholas was born in 1888 (one document says it was in Vilno). He was married to Catherine Suzik, but I can't find the marriage record. Maybe you could do a little research on him.

Were you able to check records from Lipniszki parish for Szadulski/Szadurski surname?

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:49 am

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:49 am

Hello Everyone!
I wanted to post to let you guys know that I have been sorting through all the suggestions that you gave me at the beginning of this thread about Andrew. And to let you know that I had a wonderful visit with Andrew's Granddaughter Sandy and her husband. They spent a lot of time with him his whole life. She was so grateful and excited about knowing Veronica's past. She said as a child, she loved her dearly.
Info she remembered about Andrew was interesting. (of course memories that may or may not be valuable to my search.)

First, the brother on the passenger list that he was going to see in Ohio was real. She knew nothing about Ohio, but that the brother (Micolaj on passenger list) was a professor in St. Petersburg, Russia. So that makes me think that he was somewhat older than Andrew if Andrew came here at 19 years old. (born 1896 supposedly) And I was told that Andrew was sent to a school in St. Petersburg by another relative. So I guess that could mean some kind of education for younger men?
I don't know if there is some way to track professors at Universities in Russia at that time? I have not found a way yet.

She also said that Andrew said he was 50 miles form Berlin. That seems strange to me. He spoke Polish and Russian. So seems like that area would be German speaking maybe?
Of course his life span has many repeated border changes. But he definitely is Polish and Russian influenced.

Another thing that she said was that he said the family were 'Arisocrats'. Nobility line possibly?
When I researched nobility structure in Poland, I realized that there are many levels of family passed down nobility, all the way to not even owning land. So that made it more believable to me.

He said the family owned land with people working on it. I couldn't help but think of Veronica being listed as an agricultural day worker on her hamburg passenger list. It would be crazy if they already knew each other before America. But that is probably far fetched. But romantic I'm sure such a union as that would have been frowned upon in his homeland. But he was called a playboy and probably broke some rules
Haven't yet found any land ownership records to search.
I still remember him listing Wilno once in later years as a birthplace. Maybe he could have at least been there at some point near Veronica's home when it was Russian with more Polish than Lithuanian. Just keeping an open mind about everything

I've also done a lot of research about the origin of the last name. Seems to come from Sadowski originally. I'm sure you guys know this already.
Seems to be a locational last name at least at it's origin. Made me think of the passenger list that listed something like Sihowey as birth place or last residence. I found that interesting. So I'm keeping places like Sadowice and Sadowo in my mind. Also, his marriage license and another document had hand written corrections to his last name correcting it to Sadowski. Interesting.
Also trying to research the Lipniki Roman Catholic church records suggested earlier. Relating to Bol'shie Knyazikovcy,-Belarus were he gave as a birth place later.

Finally, I with end this long post with something fun and showing his Russian influence.
At his granddaughter's wedding, 1958, Andrew was center stage with everyone gathered around as he did the Kazotsky Kick dance. Also did it at a later birthday party close to 80 years old! I think he liked to have fun!

Any suggestions to how this little bit of info could help me would be appreciated as always.
Your forever friend, Shannon

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:54 am

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:54 am

Thanks Monika!
I've been loving this site for a while. I've learned so much form it about the way names are written and many other things. But I had never seen this! I'll have to sort through and see what I can find

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

mm_88 — Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:21 am

Author: mm_88

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:21 am

Shannon, that's great that you found this family tree on geni.

Here you can find some transcribed records from parish Twerecz
https://www.lithuaniancatholicancestorsearch.com/tverecius-rcc-register-entry-data-tables.html?fbclid=IwAR10_fWUcAYl79hfdujqvmJnFzNig5oelXnsYwSJowI-QfYHvk9zaPdIM44

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:49 pm

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:49 pm

Thank you so much Barb!!
I can't believe how much my family has grown in just a couple of days!
I'll never forget your generosity!

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

BarbOslo — Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:26 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:26 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

No. 59
Date of the wedding: November 14th, 1882
The place of the wedding: parish Twerecz (lit. Tverečius)
Days of the three banns of marriage announced in the parish of Twerecz: October 24th , October 30th and 1st November
The groom: Kazimir Strebutan (lit. Skrebutėnas), a single man, 38 years old from Wilaki (lit. Vilėkos), a son of Kazimierz (lit.Kazimirus) and Krystyna (lit.Kristina) nee Saplis
The bride: Kristina Szymkus (lit. Šimkus), a miss, 38 years old from Lachowszczina, a daughter of Franciszek (lit.Franciscus) and Apolonia nee Sekan

----
*both Kazimierz and Kristina were born ab. 1844.
The birth record for Kazimierz is attached. He was born on February 18, 1845 in Wilaki (lit. Vilėkos) parish Twerecz (lit. Tverečius).
https://ibb.co/ryHyBDf

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

BarbOslo — Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:15 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:15 pm

No. 59
Date of the wedding: November 14th, 1882
The place of the wedding: parish Twerecz (lit. Tverečius)
Days of the three banns of marriage announced in the parish of Twerecz: October 24th , October 30th and 1st November
The groom: Kazimir Strebutan (lit. Skrebutėnas), a single man, 38 years old from Wilaki (lit. Vilėkos), a son of Kazimierz (lit.Kazimirus) and Krystyna (lit.Kristina) nee Saplis
The bride: Kristina Szymkus (lit. Šimkus), a miss, 38 years old from Lachowszczina, a daughter of Franciszek (lit.Franciscus) and Apolonia nee Sekan

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

BarbOslo — Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:43 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:43 am

Shannon207 wrote:

Hey Ladies!
I wanted to show you a page on Geni that the wonderful man Bob with the old book on ancestry sent me to. He mentioned it earlier and I missed it. There is no Veronika, but he said he notified them and showed them where to look to add her.
He's another of our group here that is turning out to be hitting all the right info.

https://www.geni.com/people/Kazimieras-Skrebut%C4%97nas/6000000078149942858

Hello,
This is fantastic news, Shannon. Just check and find those documents. I'm going to work now. We will continue working in the afternoon.

-Barb

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:45 pm

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:45 pm

Hey Ladies!
I wanted to show you a page on Geni that the wonderful man Bob with the old book on ancestry sent me to. He mentioned it earlier and I missed it. There is no Veronika, but he said he notified them and showed them where to look to add her.
He's another of our group here that is turning out to be hitting all the right info.

https://www.geni.com/people/Kazimieras-Skrebut%C4%97nas/6000000078149942858

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:34 pm

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:34 pm

Your kidding!! You guys are amazing! Thank you a million times!!!

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

BarbOslo — Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:27 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:27 pm

Shannon207 wrote:

Thank you so much Barb! This all means the worlds to me! And others in my family too.

Now you'll be happy Shannon. I found the wedding record of Kazimierz and Kristina. They married November 14, 1882. No.59. Will translate it tomorrow.

https://ibb.co/wWCw8P7

-Barb

Re: Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

mm_88 — Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:04 pm

Author: mm_88

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:04 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Shannon207 wrote:

Thank You Monika for that answer!!! I'm so excited!!!

Monika, have you seen church records from parish Twerecz for the period 1865-1890? Thinking mainly of weddings.

-Barb

Yes, you can find it here https://www.epaveldas.lt/search?term=Tvere%C4%8Diaus%20%C5%A0v%C4%8D.%20Trejyb%C4%97s%20Romos%20katalik%C5%B3%20ba%C5%BEny%C4%8Dia&page=0&size=20&order=-1&orderDir=desc&full=false&isMap=false&isDetailed=false
Marriage = santuokos

Would be so grateful for help on Great Grandparents

Shannon207 — Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:37 pm

Author: Shannon207

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:37 pm

Thank you so much Barb! This all means the worlds to me! And others in my family too.