PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:15 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:15 am

Sophia wrote:

tiagogorski wrote:

Hi Tiago,

You probably realize that this forum we are using to talk to each other is provided by Polish Origins, which is a professional genealogy company. I would recommend talking to them to see if they are able to obtain the documents that you are looking for.

https://polishorigins.com/genealogy/

Also, they talk a little bit about the details of Polish citizenship here:

https://polishorigins.com/blog/polish-citizenship/

Perhaps you have already read that?

Best of luck to you,
Sophia

Hey Sophia, yes I've sent an email to the contact of the forum. One of the problems I'm facing is the high cost given the devaluation of Brazil's currency in relation to stronger currencies, such as the euro, so the costs are quite high, but I'm working to bring together family members who are interested in sharing the costs.

We are quite close to get all the documents, my great grandfather did not naturalized in Brazil and we have his foreing card, but I believe we can't proof that Marian Gorski that was born in Poland is the same individual that married Eugenia, following the geneology line to me.

We couldn't find his passaport or military register of the polish army, unfortunately.

Many thanks!
Best
Tiago

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

Sophia — Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:45 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 7:45 am

tiagogorski wrote:

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:12 pm

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:12 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi Tiago,
Here is something from Kamin'-Kashyrs'kyi, but from previous years.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=8528316&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Ukraine%2C%20Volyn%20Oblast%2C%20Kamin%CA%B9-Kashyrs%CA%B9kyy%20Rayon%2C%20Kamin%27-Kashyrs%27kyi%22&subjectsOpen=390721-50
https://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/KMluck436x.xml

They have something from Polesie, but I don't know what. Note that the III USC in Warsaw does not search for individuals. When you search for a copy of a certificate, you must state the date and place (name of parish) and information for the persons it applies to.
https://warszawa19115.pl/-/ksiegi-aktow-stanu-cywilnego-znajdujace-sie-w-usc-m-st-warszawy-ksiegi-zabuzanskie
https://bip.warszawa.pl/web/urzad-stanu-cywilnego-m-st-warszawy/-/iii-wydzial-rejestracji-stanu-cywilnego-i-ksiag-zabuzanskich
-Barb

Hi Barb and Sophia,

Thank you very much for your help in obtaining documents of my family. We have obtained a lot of information, and I think I have exhausted the online search for my great-grandparents' marriage certificates, so I will send some requests by email to Archiwum Główne Akt Dawnych, and for now the best chance I have is to try to find something in the regions of Kamienne - Sarny powiat and Kamień Koszyrski - Polesie, but to be honest it is practically a needle in a haystack.

Unfortunately this document is essential to proceed with the citizenship application.

I am also thinking of hiring a geneology specialist in Poland, please let me know if you have any reliable recommendations.

Today I have also sent an email to a geneologist in Ukraine, let see how it goes.

I found the files below that may have a marriage record of Mariano and Eugenia, or the birth of their first child in Kamienne- Sarny powiat:

Parafia: Sarny. Dekanat: Sarny. Raptularz chrztów, ślubów i zgonów w parafii.
Kod referencyjny: 1/433/0/-/29
Daty: 1921 - 1950
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/17944383

Parafia: Sarny. Dekanat: Sarny. Raptularz chrztów i zgonów w parafii.
Kod referencyjny: 1/433/0/-/30
Daty: 1923-1948
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/17944385

Parafia: Sarny. Dekanat: Sarny.
Kod referencyjny: 1/433/0/-/35
Daty: 1922 - 1924
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/17944390

Parafia: Sarny. Dekanat: Sarny. Księga egzaminów przedślubnych złożonych w parafii.
Kod referencyjny: 1/433/0/-/36
Daty: 1924 - 1925
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/17944391

Let's see if I have any luck with that.

Please let me know if you find anything or have any new ideas.

Abraços
Tiago Gorski

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Thu Dec 12, 2024 7:56 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 7:56 am

[/quote]

May I point out one thing, on this map? You highlighted in yellow Dąbrowa. Now look a little north and west.
Do you see D. Cholopecze? Maybe that is the true spot of your Dąbrowa Cholopecze.[/quote]

Oh right! I missed this one. The “D.” is definetely of Dąbrowa. Now makes sense. Thanks!!

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

Sophia — Thu Dec 12, 2024 7:07 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 7:07 am

tiagogorski wrote:

Sophia wrote:

tiagogorski wrote:

Additionally, my grandparent Jozef Gorski was born in Dabrowa Cholopecz close to wlodozimierz, and I could only find the town/village Cholopecz in page 240 of the list, despite there is a lot of cities that starts with Dabrowa. Does dabrowa in front of a city name means anything in polish language?

Hi Tiago,

The word dąb in Polish means oak tree, and dąbrowa means oak forest. That is why it was such a popular name for towns. I think that the village is probably named Dąbrowa only, and that people added Cholopecz to the name when they wanted to indicate which Dąbrowa they meant. I suggest you look at this one on image 318 (book page 316):

Dąbrowa kol. (kol = kolonia, colony in English)
Kisielin
Horochow
Wol.
Wojnica
Wlodzimierz-Turczyn
Luck

Sophia

Hi Sophia, you are right, just found both in the map attached with both names. Many Thanks!

May I point out one thing, on this map? You highlighted in yellow Dąbrowa. Now look a little north and west.
Do you see D. Cholopecze? Maybe that is the true spot of your Dąbrowa Cholopecze.

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:45 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:45 am

Sophia wrote:

tiagogorski wrote:

Hi Sophia, you are right, just found both in the map attached with both names. Many Thanks!

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

Sophia — Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:10 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:10 am

tiagogorski wrote:

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Thu Dec 12, 2024 5:16 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 5:16 am

Sophia wrote:

BarbOslo wrote:

Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.

Best!
Tiago

Hi,
I found only this.

-Barb

Hi Tiago and Barb,

Maybe this? Image 661 (which is page 659 of the book).

https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/7126/edition/12786/content

Sophia[/quote]

Hey Sophia, many thanks for this list. very helpful.

It caught my eyes that there is a lot of Kamień cities/villages in this list. As a matter of fact, a relative sent birth certificate (September - 1924) of Apolonia as well as her foreign register (My great grandpas first child) and it says that she was born in Kamienne-Poland. The documents are in portuguese but I've highlighted it in yellow in the attachments.

Considering we know that she was born in Poliese (indicated in the arrival imigrants list), there is a specific village that I found in an a website that Barb recommended (thanks Barb), which is also in the list you sent (page 659), wich is Kamienne in Sarny Powiat, which is also part of Polesie in a period of time.

"In Poland, it was the seat of a Sarny county (powiat), firstly in Polesie Voivodeship, then, since 1930 – in Wołyń Voivodeship."

Other remarks: Sarny had a lot of jewish families, as it was one of the permitted cities to jews live whan it was part of Russian borders. Also due to the city's proximity to the Russian border, it became a Polish military centre following the Polish-Soviet War. As I mentioned before, my great grandfather Mariano Gorski fought on the polish-soviet war, and met Eugenia, wich was jew and later batized in 1927 the ewangelicko-augsburga church. They met in some point close to the end of soviet-polish war.

Additionally, my grandparent Jozef Gorski was born in Dabrowa Cholopecz close to wlodozimierz, and I could only find the town/village Cholopecz in page 240 of the list, despite there is a lot of cities that starts with Dabrowa. Does dabrowa in front of a city name means anything in polish language?

Abraços!
Tiago Gorski

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

Sophia — Wed Dec 11, 2024 2:48 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 2:48 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.

Best!
Tiago

Hi,
I found only this.

-Barb[/quote]

Hi Tiago and Barb,

Maybe this? Image 661 (which is page 659 of the book).

https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/7126/edition/12786/content

Sophia

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

BarbOslo — Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:40 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:40 pm

Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.

Best!
Tiago[/quote]

Hi,
I found only this.

-Barb

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Wed Dec 11, 2024 9:32 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 9:32 am

BarbOslo wrote:

Thanks Barb!

I found also this webpage, seems that they have civil records between 1919 - 1939 in the region of Polesie, but at least in the descrption is very general covering all Polesie region:

https://archives.gov.by/en/welcome-to-the-archives-of-belarus-website/genealogy-family-history/genealogical-records-of-the-state-regional-archives/genealogical-records-at-the-state-archives-of-brest-region/genealogical-records-for-polesie-voevodstvo-the-whole-territory-1919-1939

on one of the websites you sent, they listed the books avaialable on the archives below:

By Parish: https://um.warszawa.pl/documents/55950/1935735/ksiegi_archiwum.pdf/3895202f-db10-4b0b-a4ab-b0ba766d99fa?t=1634500042975

By region:https://um.warszawa.pl/documents/55950/1935735/zbior_ksiegi_zabuzanskie.pdf/3d9cc517-af4b-6b91-d1fb-fdd2c5e90614?t=1634500042969

On this last one they list the following cities, in which Kamien is not shown:

II Województwo poleskie
81) CZERNAWCZYCE
82) STAWY
83) TOMASZÓWKA
84) WIERZCHOWICE
85) WOJTKIEWICZE
86) WOŁCZYN
87) WYSOKIE LITEWSKIE

Do you have a website to confirm which parish was in Kamien koszyrsk at the time? I'm struggling to confirm that.

Best!
Tiago

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

BarbOslo — Tue Dec 10, 2024 3:53 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 3:53 pm

Hi Tiago,
Here is something from Kamin'-Kashyrs'kyi, but from previous years.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=8528316&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Ukraine%2C%20Volyn%20Oblast%2C%20Kamin%CA%B9-Kashyrs%CA%B9kyy%20Rayon%2C%20Kamin%27-Kashyrs%27kyi%22&subjectsOpen=390721-50
https://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/KMluck436x.xml

They have something from Polesie, but I don't know what. Note that the III USC in Warsaw does not search for individuals. When you search for a copy of a certificate, you must state the date and place (name of parish) and information for the persons it applies to.
https://warszawa19115.pl/-/ksiegi-aktow-stanu-cywilnego-znajdujace-sie-w-usc-m-st-warszawy-ksiegi-zabuzanskie
https://bip.warszawa.pl/web/urzad-stanu-cywilnego-m-st-warszawy/-/iii-wydzial-rejestracji-stanu-cywilnego-i-ksiag-zabuzanskich
-Barb

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:59 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:59 am

Hi Barb, how are you?

I've doing some research in the family, and discovered that a distant relative was also trying to get Mariano and Eugenia (my great grandparents) marriage record. This person tried to find this document in the Archiwum Glowne Akt Dawnych w Warszawie, The Central Archives of historical records, where are the baptism records of Eugenia and Jozef (my grandfather) and didn't find it, despite the archive sent Eugenia's baptism register from 1927 (attached).

The new information is that he know that their first child, Apolonia (Born in 1924) was born in Kamin'-Kashyrs'kyi Volyns'ka, oblast, Ukraine (nowadays) which used to be Kamień Koszyrski, Polesie - Poland between 1918-1939.

By any chance do you know which archive the documents of this region may be, or any other insight that could help? He also mention that given she was born exactly 100 years ago, the documents are probably in transit, from national to regional archives, which which ends up being an additional obstacle in the research.

Assuming that Mariano and Eugenia married before their first child, it must happened anytime between 1923-1924.

Best!
Tiago

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

BarbOslo — Wed Dec 04, 2024 6:12 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 6:12 pm

Hi Tiago,
Marian Górski you found took part in the Greater Poland uprising 1918-1919.
It seems that this archive only has this information about him.
https://wbh.wp.mil.pl/pdfviewer/?f=/c/scans/zasoby/I_487/I_487_13273.pdf
I am only familiar with the archive via the internet.

-Barb

military certificate

tiagogorski — Wed Dec 04, 2024 5:48 pm

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 5:48 pm

Hey Barb,

I found a Marian Gorski, who joined the polish army between 1918-1939, in the military archive, not sure if it is my great grandfather, but we do know that he fought on the polish-soviet war, after the great war. I've sent an email via form filling requesting more information, maybe a certificate if he is the one.

https://wbh.wp.mil.pl/pl/skanywyszukiwarka_bazy_personalne/?kategoria_bazy_osobowej=3&imie=Marian&nazwisko=Gorski&miejsce_urodzenia=&imie_ojca=&sygnatury=&sort=kategoria_bazy_osobowej&sort_type=%2B#wynik

Are you familiar with this site/archive, or had any experience requesting information to them?

Best
Tiago Gorski

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:12 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:12 am

tiagogorski wrote:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hello,
Yes, Hans is the German version for Jan. The same name.

As for Jozef, it is difficult to be 100% sure. The age matches. Jozef was born in 1907, and this Jozef was 20 years old when he died in 1928. The place of birth is also correct. But no parents are mentioned. The person who reported the death is named Martha nee Gorski. There is no mention of any familial relationship between them. Do you have Martha's death record? Maybe her parents or birth date are mentioned there. Then I can try again to search for her by birth year.

Yes, I have the birth and death certificates of all the children I mentioned.

-Barb

Hey Barb, couldn't find Martha's death record unfortunately. The source I'm using goes up to 1986, and when her son visited us in the 90s she was still alive, so that is probably the reason I can't find her.

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/2958/

I found also Apolonia's death record. She died young. The first child of Mariano and Eugenia was named Apolonia as well, maybe in honor of Mariano's sister that died young 22 years.

I'll keep searching.

best
Tiago

Additionally, an aunt just sent me this: Tante Martha was born on 10/11/1900 in Malchow, and died on 11/17/1995.

Seems that there was another aunt named Tonny (probably Antonia), but we don't have more information on dates and place of birth.

best
Tiago

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:02 am

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:02 am

BarbOslo wrote:

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

BarbOslo — Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:16 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2024 2:16 am

Hello,
Yes, Hans is the German version for Jan. The same name.

As for Jozef, it is difficult to be 100% sure. The age matches. Jozef was born in 1907, and this Jozef was 20 years old when he died in 1928. The place of birth is also correct. But no parents are mentioned. The person who reported the death is named Martha nee Gorski. There is no mention of any familial relationship between them. Do you have Martha's death record? Maybe her parents or birth date are mentioned there. Then I can try again to search for her by birth year.

Yes, I have the birth and death certificates of all the children I mentioned.

-Barb

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

tiagogorski — Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:13 pm

Author: tiagogorski

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 10:13 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Yes, the information I have is that the names of the sister and brothers are: Hans, Marianna and Martha, but I don't know anything else. Where did you find the info about Marianna?

Hi, Now you will be surprised, Tiago.
I checked the church records in Wielki Komorsk and found that Franciszek (Franz) and Julianna had several children. Some of them died as children.
Listed by year of birth:
Jan born 30.11.1891
Franciszka born 1.04.1893
Weronika born 26.02.1894, died 27.04.1894
Franciszek born 21.01.1895
Apolonia born 20.12.1897
Marian born 9.04.1899
Marianna born 3.02.1902
Konrad born 6.07.1903, died 26.11.1906
Wiktoria born 23.03.1906, died 18.09.1906
Otylia born 23.03.1906 twin
Jozef Cyril born 5.07.1907

I couldn't find daughter Marta.

-Barb

Wow. To be honest I always tought it was strange that they got married in 1891, and Mariano (my 2x great grandfather) was born only 8 year after, in 1899. The familyh tree just got bigger know.

Does Jan name relates in anyway with the name Hans? I ask that because one of Mariano's son was Hans, born in Prenzlau, in honor of one of the brothers he never saw again.

I found a death record which I believe mentions Martha Ketelhut, born Gorski, but it is really difficult for me to translate in ink writing. I'm attaching for your analysis. Not sure if is the same Jozef of the list you sent because the birth date seems different, but I discovered that Martha married a person with the surname Ketelhut, as it was her son who visited us here in Brazil, Gunther Ketelhut.

I've sent this list to my uncle, my grandfather Jozef Gorski is living with him, he is 96 years old but his mind is good and he maybe can remember something.

Probably Jan and Franciszek fought in the great war, as Mariano did, so I'll try to find something too.

Do you have birth records for all of them?

many thanks!!

Abraços!

Re: Find Records - Parish: Wielki Komorsk

BarbOslo — Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:24 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:24 am

Yes, the information I have is that the names of the sister and brothers are: Hans, Marianna and Martha, but I don't know anything else. Where did you find the info about Marianna?

Hi, Now you will be surprised, Tiago.
I checked the church records in Wielki Komorsk and found that Franciszek (Franz) and Julianna had several children. Some of them died as children.
Listed by year of birth:
Jan born 30.11.1891
Franciszka born 1.04.1893
Weronika born 26.02.1894, died 27.04.1894
Franciszek born 21.01.1895
Apolonia born 20.12.1897
Marian born 9.04.1899
Marianna born 3.02.1902
Konrad born 6.07.1903, died 26.11.1906
Wiktoria born 23.03.1906, died 18.09.1906
Otylia born 23.03.1906 twin
Jozef Cyril born 5.07.1907

I couldn't find daughter Marta.

-Barb