PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Great grandmother's birthday

zski — Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:57 pm

Author: zski

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:57 pm

Thank you both for such detailed answers! Times certainly have changed. Today a 21 year old man and a 15 year old girl would not be acceptable. Agnieszka had 12 children, and died at age 43. Mateuz married again, and died at 54. My great grandfather, Piotr, was 4 when she died. People had such hard lives then.

I love this website! Such wonderful, helpful people. Thank you again!

Re: Great great grandmother's birthdate

dnowicki — Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:27 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:27 pm

zski wrote:

I have been researching my family on geneteka.genealodzy.pl, and I cannot find a birthdate for my great great grandmother Agnieszka Szelagiewicz. She was born in Osiek, Swietokrzyskie, and married Mateuz Ziejowski in 1821.

Several people on Ancestry.com have listed her birthdate as 1806, without a source citation. This would mean that she got married at 15, and had her first child at 17. I have emailed the people citing this birthdate, but they have not answered me.

Thank you for in advance for your assistance.

Hi,

The posts on Ancestry most likely calculated the year of her birth from her age (15) as recorded in the marriage record. Since the wedding took place on February 28, 1821 Agnieszka could have turned 15 anytime between Feb. 1821 and Feb. 1820. Her age seems very young according to contemporary standards but her age was perfectly acceptable according to Catholic ecclesiastical law (Canon Law). During the early 19th Century the age to validly contract marriage according to Canon Law was 14 which was based on the average age of puberty. Since one of the primary “goods” of marriage was the procreation of children and since puberty was a sine qua non for conception to take place and thus the minimum age to validly contract marriage was after the onset of puberty which generally was considered to occur after age 12 for females and around age 14 for males. According to ecclesiastical law a valid marriage was made up of two parts—ratum et consummatum (ratified & consummated). Ratification took place in public when the couple exchanged vows in the presence of the priest and the two witnesses. Consummation was private and took place in the marital bed (torus/thorus).

Here is the link to the marriage record: https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=142&se=&sy=1821&kt=1&plik=064-066.jpg&x=690&y=2359&zoom=1

A good guess about why the civil records in the public forum begin with the year 1810 is due to the political upheavals which followed the Partitions of Poland and the events of the Napoleonic wars.

I would recommend contacting the parish and asking whether the parish holds the ecclesiastical baptismal registers or, if not, whether they may be obtained from the diocesan archive. The marriage record, in typical fashion for civil marriage records in the first quarter of the 19th Century, states that both the bride and the groom presented baptismal certificates issued by the parish, In reality it most probably means that the parish priest, acting in his capacity as a priest, looked up the baptismal records in the parish baptismal register for the appropriate years.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Re: Great great grandmother's birthdate

BarbOslo — Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:44 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:44 pm

Hi,
The parish records in Osiek begin in 1810. Agnieszka's marriage record from 1821 states that she was 15 years old and Mateusz was 21. This gives an approximate birth year of around 1806.
When her daughter Franciszka was born in 1823, Agnieszka's age was given as 18. This says that she was born about 1805.
Regards,
-Barb

Great great grandmother's birthdate

zski — Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:54 pm

Author: zski

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:54 pm

I have been researching my family on geneteka.genealodzy.pl, and I cannot find a birthdate for my great great grandmother Agnieszka Szelagiewicz. She was born in Osiek, Swietokrzyskie, and married Mateuz Ziejowski in 1821.

Several people on Ancestry.com have listed her birthdate as 1806, without a source citation. This would mean that she got married at 15, and had her first child at 17. I have emailed the people citing this birthdate, but they have not answered me.

Thank you for in advance for your assistance.