PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz/Brodaczewska Number 10

janbee — Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:35 am

Author: janbee

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:35 am

Gilberto and Elzbieta. Wow! This is amazing. I cannot believe how dedicated, helpful and knowledgeable you both are. I am ever so grateful for not only your translations but your explanations!
You are to be commended for your diligence and thoughtfulness in helping a novice like me in locating my ancestors.

And Elzbieta, the table from Turobin you provided makes it all sound so simple and logical. Marvelous.

All the years that both my parents (first generation born in US and both from Polish heritage) spoke Polish at home, I so regret never having learned the language (except a few words and phrases!).

My dream is to visit the towns and villages where all my family members came from, especially Zabno, Turobin where I have been able to locate records for 4 generations of my paternal grandmother's family going back to the late 1700's.

It's a daunting task but finding several Polish websites (Lubgens, Geneolodzy, Polish Origins, etc., containing so many records and with the help and gracious assistance of forum members like yourselves, my dream may come true sooner than I ever anticipated, even though I still have much work to do.

Again, Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Warmest regards,

JanBee

Re: Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz/Brodaczewska Numbe

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:09 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:09 am

Jan, Gilberto,

Let me put things together with this wonderful old table from Turobin, because it is not a straightforward records, and clarification is needed.

Please note that you have to deduce bride's birth name from her father name, as her name has been replaced by her husband name.

Quoting my own note about names in Polish records:

Quote:

A married woman was taking the name of her husband, no option (that is a Good Thing from algorithm perspective: no option, no mistake, no combinatory effects).

In her first marriage she is bride X (almost always X-owna, daughter of X), Panna X = Miss X, spouse S1.
In her second marriage she is bride S1, spouse S2.
In her third marriage she is bride S2, spouse S3.

If in the above algorithm, there is only a place for two names: name of bride, name of spouse, and if you want to get to the bride’s birth name, you have to iterate.

Usually it is recorded if the bride was widow. If not, when you see that bride S1 is daughter of father and mother spouses F1, different name, you can catch up on things.

Here it is.

Best,
Elzbieta
==

==PO186:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/jozef_bielak_and_paulina_bartosiewicz_brodaczewska_marriage_no_10_in_1929_page1_585.png
Record #10
DATE-of-MARRIAGE: 6 February [year as above], 3 pm // as usual in tables, year is written once; you know it's 1929
WITNESSES: Ludwik Pizoń, 33 years old, and Stanislaw Bielak, 28 years old, rol. [rolnicy] farmers from Żabno
GROOM: Jozef Bielak, 32 years old, kaw. [kawaler], rol. [rolnik] // young man, farmer
BRIDE: Paulina Brodaczewska, [NOTE: mistake, should be 38 not 28] years old, rolniczka, wd. [wdowa] po zm [zmarlym] Franciszku Brodaczewskim przed 14l. [lat] // farmer, widow of the late Franciszek Brodaczewski, 14 years ago // NOTE: bride’s age is 38 not 28 – born 1891, in 1929 she is 38; then 14 years ago she was 24
==PO186:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/jozef_bielak_and_paulina_bartosiewicz_brodaczewska_marriage_no_10_in_1929_page2_112.png
Record #10 continued
GROOM-CONT: place of birth and place of residence: Żabno
BRIDE-CONT: place of birth and place of residence: Żabno
GROOM-PARENTS: son of Marcin and Jadwiga born Boguska, spouses Bielak
BRIDE-PARENTS: daughter of Jozef and Marjanna born Formaszek, spouses Bartosiewicz (slub dany na postawie wyroku sadu biskupiego // marriage allowed by decision of bishop’s / diocesan court)
BANNS: 6 January, 13 January, 20 January
GROOM-BIRTH: N 251 r.1896 dn. 18.IX // birth record # N251, year 1896, date 18 September, community Turobin
BRIDE-BIRTH: N 17 r.1891, dn. 16.I // birth record # N17, year 1891, date 16 January, in Turobin [NOTE: bride’s age is 38 not 28]

==

Re: Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz/Brodaczewska Number 10

Anonymous — Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:57 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:57 pm

janbee wrote:

Thank you Gilberto. It is very difficult to read.

Appreciate your time and efforts.

Regards,
JanBee

More info from columns:
Date: Februrary 6, 3 p.m.
Witnesses: Ludwik Pison, 33 and Stanislaw Bielak, 28, both farmers in Zabno.
Groom;Jozef Bielak, 32, single, farmer
Bride: Paulina Brodaczewska, 28, widow, of the late Franciszek Brodaczewski, (for the last 14 years?)
Place of groom and Bride: Zabno,
Mothers maiden names: Jadwiga was a Boguski, Maryanna was a Formanski (it seems)
a note in polish seems to be 'slub dany podstawie wynoku sadie bpiego' (biskupiego??)
6/1, 13/1 and 20/1 refer to the dates bans were proclamed

Re: Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz/Brodaczewska Number 10

janbee — Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:15 pm

Author: janbee

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:15 pm

Thank you Gilberto. It is very difficult to read.

Appreciate your time and efforts.

Regards,
JanBee

Re: Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz/Brodaczewska Numbe

Anonymous — Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:03 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:03 pm

janbee wrote:

Requesting a translation of this marriage record Number 10 (on 2 pages), in 1929

Possibly Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz (or Brodaczewska?), from Zabno, Turobin.
I cannot make out the parents names.

Translation would be much appreciated.
Regards,
JanBee

Jozef's parents are Marcin and Jadwiga
Paulina's parents are Jozef and Maryanna. I can't read the rest.
I understand Paulina had been married before, to a Franciszek Brodaczewski.
Gilberto

Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz/Brodaczewska Number 10

janbee — Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Author: janbee

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Requesting a translation of this marriage record Number 10 (on 2 pages), in 1929

Possibly Jozef Bielak and Paulina Bartosiewicz (or Brodaczewska?), from Zabno, Turobin.
I cannot make out the parents names.

Translation would be much appreciated.
Regards,
JanBee