PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

echristopherclark — Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Author: echristopherclark

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Thank you, Elzbieta.

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:04 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:04 pm

Christopher,

A little addendum:
1859 73 Julia Eufrozyna Strzałkowska Kazimierz Józefa Supłatowicz Warszawa św. Jan
1857 820 Aleksander Michał Strzałkowski Kazimierz Józefa Supłatowicz Warszawa św. Krzyż

Julia Eufrozyna had a brother Aleksander Michal. If she is your Julia, it might be of interest. Julia was baptised at św. Jan, Aleksander at św. Krzyż (Holy Cross Church), both churches are very close, circa 1 km, that is just an indication that the family moved between two babies.

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

echristopherclark — Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:31 am

Author: echristopherclark

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:31 am

Thank you, everyone. Before this topic fades off into the archives of the site, I wanted to take one last chance to thank everyone for their help. It's been amazing to see everything you've come up with on my family. If I uncover anything new in the future, I'll be sure to let you know.

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

dnowicki — Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:11 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:11 pm

echristopherclark wrote:

dnowicki wrote:

He may have been legally adopted…

Would there be any records of this? If so, are they online? I ask because, once upon a time, I did hear my grandmother mention that she thought one of her parents might have been adopted. But it wasn't a detail that came out much in her stories, so I'm not sure how much truth there is to it.

I don't know how common formal adoptions were in the 19th Century Congress Kingdom. My suspicion is that they were not very common and that in practice "adoption" was more informal and not often formalized through the legal process unless property was involved. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that any formal adoption records would have been kept by the court which handled the process. I have no idea whether such records exist and much less whether they could be found online.

Regarding the question of a possible second 1887 baptism record...The civil transcripts are BIRTH NOT BAPTISMAL records per se even though sometimes they include mention of baptism and baptismal sponsors. Baptism records fall under the domain of ecclesiastical rather than civil records and would be found in parish registers housed either in the parish itself or in the archives of the diocese. Although there are LDS films of ecclesiastical sacramental register, few are published online thus far. It is doubtful that an 1887 baptismal record for Bronislaw would be found in the online civil registrations because that would mean that his birth was recorded twice and two years apart as part of the civil registration process. Since the 1885 record which Gilberto located is in Russian, a language in which I have limited recognition of certain words and no fluency, I don't know whether the record even makes any mention of his baptism. If it is only a registration of his birth and if he was not baptized at that time then it would be possible that he could have been baptized in 1887 at All Saints but that record would be found in the parish baptismal register and not in the civil registrations. From my personal research I know that the two sets of books kept by the parish priests (the ecclesiastical baptismal register and the civil acts) are not identical. I know this because for some parishes I've used both the baptismal registers and the civil registrations and sometimes there are entries in the baptismal registers which are not found in the civil registers and thus the numbers assigned to the entries (Acts) in both registers are not identical. A good example of why this could happen is the case of an individual who converts to the Catholic Faith. If a Non-Christian adult converts, the baptism is entered in the baptismal register and nothing is entered in the civil acts since the birth took place long ago in the past. If a baptized Non-Catholic converts, the entry in the baptismal register is a record of "profession of faith" and not of baptism since that event (baptism) was valid when it took place in the original faith of the individual. Again, in this case the event is not recorded in the civil birth acts.

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question about adoption records.

Dave

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

echristopherclark — Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:43 am

Author: echristopherclark

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:43 am

dnowicki wrote:

He may have been legally adopted…

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Anonymous — Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:13 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:13 am

echristopherclark wrote:

A couple of questions occur to me as I read through the most recent information:

1. Is there any reason why they wouldn't have listed an age for Antonina Łukasiewicz, mother of the possible Antoni?
2. Is there a possibility Bronislaw was baptized for a second time, this time in 1887, and that's when he adopted the surname Niemczyk? Is that what you were looking for, Gilberto?
3. Are their marriage records for the area available? Are they available online?

I think that's it for now. Still processing all of the information you've all been good enough to provide.

Christopher,

2. I think so. Yes. I could not find a baptism in 1887.
3. Yes and yes. I have searched lots of Warszawa parishes (not all) looking for their marriage sometime between 1885 and 1890, but did not find it. Here is the link for Warsaw parishes (Roman Catholic starts on line #1:
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/pow-59.
In case you are not familiar:
U = urodzen (birth)
M = malzenstw (marriage)
Z = zgony (death)
SkU, SkM, SkZ = index for births, marriages and deaths, respectively.
Check the images of the already translated records to see how the names Anton and Julia look like when written in russian.

Gilberto

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:47 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:47 am

All,

There is a number of volunteers who have been indexing Warsaw's parishes old records for years, making excel-like files.

Both All Saints and St John are in.

Quote:

I have determined that Bronislaw may have had a brother or half-brother named Frank Niemczyk born on our about 3 Dec 1894.

In St John indexes are per year.
Re: searching Frank -> Franciszek in 1894, St John
4 Franciszek, one record number 894 of unknown both parents:
1894 894 Franciszek NN 1894.12.01 NN NN NN rodzice nieznani
Record 894:
http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/161/0/-/119/skan/full/-V4JrUsvBP_rH3c7TYl2kQ
894 Warszawa Sw Jan,
DATE-of-ACT: /19 November/1 December/ - 1 December 1894, 10 am, Warszawa Sw Jan
DECLARANT: Zuzanna Bracka, midwife, 43 years old, Estrady?[NOTE] Street number 11
KTO: Franciszek, born 1 December 1894, 2 am, in the apartment of midwife
WITNESSES: Michal Piotrowski and Szczepan Lewandowski, church caretakers
GODPARENTS: Michal Piotrowski and Zuzanna Bracka, midwife
NOTE: Even with the list of Warsaw’s streets, and search of part of word in the list of street's names, I have many doubts with my deciphering of Cyrillic name. The number is small, while for central Warsaw one have almost always big numbers. Estrady Street is on the left side of Vistula, close to today North Cemetery of Warsaw, in Wolka. I am not sure it was part of Sw Jan parish, but it is not impossible either. Anyway, that record is as anonymous as possible.

No Franciszek in 1893 name Niemczyk or NN

In All Saints, they have indexed birth-baptism records 1866-1900, altogether more than 57000 entries.
All Strzalkowski/Strzalkowska, Bronislaw is here:
1871 178 Strzałkowska Eleonora Tekla Feliks Wiktoria Turczyńska ur. 1870
1879 706 Strzałkowska Maria Aleksander Filipina Paszkowicz
1900 2544 Strzałkowska Weronika Wojciech Antonina Dąbrowska ojciec lat 35, matka lat 33
1873 457 Strzałkowski Aleksy Feliks Wiktoria Furcińska
1885 579 Strzałkowski Bronisław NN Julia Strzałkowska
1873 458 Strzałkowski Marian Feliks Wiktoria Furcińska
1899 2063 Strzałkowski Tadeusz Jan Michał Władysława Brzosko
1876 332 Strzałkowski Walery Feliks Wiktoria Furcińska
1900 1976 Strzelbicki Józef NN Zofia Strzelbicka matka lat 23

All Niemczyk:
1882 949 Niemczyk Anna Jakub Marianna Piotrowska
1894 191 Niemczyk Cecylia Ludwik Józefa Telążek
1900 2243 Niemczyk Henryk Stanisław Walenty Aniela Szef ojciec lat 36, matka lat 32
1881 106 Niemczyk Ignacy Jakub Marianna Piotrowska
1884 276 Niemczyk Julia Jakub Marianna Piotrowska
1896 216 Niemczyk Marianna Ludwik Józefa Telążek
1898 563 Niemczyk Stefan Stanisław Walenty Aniela Szef

All NN (unknown parents) Franciszek:
1886 486 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1887 31 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1890 193 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1891 360 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1891 1059 NN Franciszek NN NN NN vel Franciszka NN, płeć niepewna
1893 828 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1893 1553 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1895 456 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1895 575 NN Franciszek NN NN NN
1896 1235 NN Franciszek NN NN NN

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

dnowicki — Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:22 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:22 pm

The simplest explanation for the lack Antonina's age in the record is oversight---human error. These records are civil transcripts and the priests were acting as civil registrars (along with their other duties). The priest may have forgotten to ask her age or he may have not written it in his notes. Often---especially in a large city parish---priests hired someone with good writing skills to produce the finished copy from the notes the priest took and then the priest signed the record, possibly without reading it. Usually more than one copy of these handwritten records was made and submitted to the civil authorities. The farther the finished copy was from the original source of the information the greater was the chance for errors to crop up.
There is no possibility of his having been baptized a second time. Baptism was a sacrament which could not be repeated. He may have been legally adopted or he may have just used the surname Niemczyk as he grew older. His parents may have married at some point after his birth---or maybe they never married. In a big city it was somewhat easy to move to another neighborhood and another parish and to just act like a legally married couple---the anonymity of big city life as opposed to no secrets in small villages. Human nature was no different then than it is now.
If they married in Warsaw and the record of their marriage is online in Metryki and not indexed then the only realistic way to find it would be to go through the marriage records of All Saints Parish for some years after 1885 (hopefully in index form for the yearly entries) and if it is there then life is good. If it is not found, the process would have to be repeated with the other parishes in Warsaw until the record is found...or not. That entails a time consuming and tedious process but unfortunately there are no available shortcuts. The Genetekasite has some indexed marriages for for the parishes of Warsaw, but no marriage indexed for his parents.

A lot of possibilities with few definitive answers...

Dave

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

echristopherclark — Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:58 pm

Author: echristopherclark

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:58 pm

A couple of questions occur to me as I read through the most recent information:

1. Is there any reason why they wouldn't have listed an age for Antonina Łukasiewicz, mother of the possible Antoni?
2. Is there a possibility Bronislaw was baptized for a second time, this time in 1887, and that's when he adopted the surname Niemczyk? Is that what you were looking for, Gilberto?
3. Are their marriage records for the area available? Are they available online?

I think that's it for now. Still processing all of the information you've all been good enough to provide.

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm

dnowicki wrote:

E Christopher, Elzbieta & Gilberto,

If Julia was born in Warsaw in 1859, the attached is a possible birth record. It is from a different parish (sw. Jan/St. John) but in 26 years people do move around. This child was given two baptismal names (Julia & Eufrozyna), but individuals with two given names often only regularly used one in later life. Again, only the marriage record will prove or eliminate it.

Dave

Dave,
Christopher,
Gilberto,

Here is Julia Eufrozyna. I note it is parish św. Jan Chrzciciel, Stare Miasto (Old Town, tiny streets, near the castle). Kazimierz Strzalkowski lived at Sowia Street, very close to the church.

ul. Świętojańska 8

Best,
Elzbieta

==

==PO260:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/julia_1859_553.jpg

DATE-of-ACT: 24 January 1859, at 5:30 pm, in Warszawa
FATHER: Kazimierz Strzalkowski, manor’s servant, 29 years old, residing in Warszawa on Sowia Street under number 2663
MOTHER: Jozefa born Supłatowicz, 33 years old, his wife
KTO: Julia Eufrozyna Strzalkowska, born 7 January 1859, 11 pm, in Warszawa, Sowia Street under number 2663
WITNESSES: Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz, janitor at Directorate of Land Credit Society, and Dominik Kozlowski, manor’s servant, both of legal age, residing in Warszawa
GODPARENTS: Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz and Jozefa Słodzinska

73
Dzialo sie w Warszawie dnia 24 miesiaca stycznia 1859 roku o godzinie w pol do szostej wieczorem. Stawil sie Kazimierz Strzalkowski, dworski, liczacy lat 29, w Warszawie przy ulicy Sowiej pod liczba 2663 zamieszkaly, w obecnosci Wojciecha Zbrożkiewicz, woznego Dyrekcji Towarzystwa Kredytowego Ziemskiego, tudziez Dominika Kozlowskiego, dworskiego, pelnoletnich, w Warszawie zamieszkalych, i okazal nam dziecie plci zenskiej urodzone w Warszawie w mieszkaniu jego na dniu 7 miesiaca i roku biezacych, o godzinie 11 w nocy, z jego malzonki Jozefy z Supłatowiczow, lat 33 majacej. dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym odbytym w dniu dzisiejszym nadane zostaly imiona Julia Eufrozyna, a rodzicami jego chrzestnymi byli Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz z Jozefa Słodzinska. Spoznienie aktu nastapilo z powodu zatrudnienia ojca. Niniejszy akt po odczytaniu podpisanym zostal przez nas wraz z swiadkiem pierwszym , ojciec zas i swiadek drugi oswiadczyli iz pisac nie umieja.
Signatures:
Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz
X. Kacper Wittmann, proboszcz i urzednik Stanu Cywilnego

Translated:

It happened in Warszawa on 24 January 1859, at half past five in the evening. Appeared in Kazimierz Strzalkowski, manor’s servant, 29 years old, residing in Warszawa on Sowia Street under number 2663, in the presence of Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz, janitor at Directorate of Land Credit Society, and Dominik Kozlowski, manor’s servant, both of legal age, residing in Warszawa, and presented us a female child born in Warszawa, in his apartment, on day 7 of the current month and year, at 11 o'clock at night, with his wife Jozefa born Supłatowicz, 33 years old. On the holy baptism held today the child was given the names of Julia Eufrozyna, and his godparents were Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz and Jozefa Słodzinska. The delay in this act is because of the father's job. This act, after being read, was signed by us, along with the first witness, the father and the second witness stated they do not know how to write.
Signatures:
Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz
Priest Kacper Wittmann, pastor and officer of Civil Vital Records Registry

==

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:30 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:30 pm

Magroski49 wrote:

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

MOTHER: Julia Strzalkowska, unmarried, 26 years old

Considering Julia was born about 1859, then Antoni could be this one born in 1860.
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/160/0/-/31/skan/full/OPJ9jQN1FqBsnQlqqdupqw
Only the marriage record could confirm it.

Gilberto

Gilberto,
Christopher,

Here is Antoni Niemczyk.

Best,
Elzbieta

==

==PO260:
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/160/0/-/31/skan/full/OPJ9jQN1FqBsnQlqqdupqw

DATE-of-ACT: 25 November 1860, at 7 pm, in Warszawa
FATHER: Filip Niemczyk, carpenter, 48 years old
MOTHER: Antonina Łukasiewicz, unmarried, staying with her family
KTO: Antoni Niemczyk born 31 October 1860, 5 am, in Warszawa Dluga Street at number 543
WITNESSES: Jozef Kurtz, carpenter, 38 years old, and Jan Kasia, stucco, 34 years old, residing in Warszawa
GODPARENTS: Jozef Kurtz and Julianna Lovi
RECOGNITION-of-the-CHILD: The present Niemczyk recognises this child is his own, acknowledges and accepts, declaring that he is begotten of him and the said Łukasiewicz

913
Dzialo sie w miescie Warszawie dnia 25 listopada 1860 roku o godzinie 7 wieczorem. Stawil sie Filip Niemczyk, stolarz, lat 48 liczacy, w obecnosci Jozefa Kurtz, stolarza lat 38 i Jana Kasi, sztukatora lat 34 majacych, w Warszawie zamieszkalych, i okazal nam dziecie plci meskiej urodzone tu w Warszawie przy ulicy Dlugiej pod liczba 543, dnia 31 pazdziernika roku biezacego, o godzinie 5 rano, z Antoniny Łukasiewicz, niezameznej, przy familii zostajacej. Dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym odbytym w dniu dzisiejszym nadane zostalo imie Antoni, a rodzicami jego chrzestnemi byli wyzej wymieniony Jozef Kurtz i Julianna Lovi. Dziecie to stawajacy Niemczyk za swoje wlasne przyznaje i przyjmuje, oswiadczajac iz jest z niego i rzeczonej Łukasiewicz splodzone. Akt ten stawajacemu i swiadkom przeczytany, przez nas, ojca i swiadka pierwszego podpisany zostal, drugi oswiadczyl ze pisac nie umie.
Signatures:
Filip Niemczyk
Jozef Kurtz
Ksiadz Apolinary Grochowski, wikaryusz parafii Panny Maryi

Translated:

It happened in the city of Warszawa, on 25 November 1860, at 7 pm. Appeared in Filip Niemczyk, carpenter, 48 years old, in the presence of Jozef Kurtz, carpenter, 38 years old, and Jan Kasia, stucco, 34 years old, residing in Warszawa, and presented us a male child born here in Warszawa Dluga Street at number 543, on 31 October of the current year, at 5 am, with Antonina Łukasiewicz, unmarried, staying with her family. On the holy baptism held today the child was given the name Antoni, and his godparents were the above mentioned Jozef Kurtz and Julianna Lovi. The present Niemczyk recognises this child is his own, acknowledges and accepts, declaring that he is begotten of him and the said Łukasiewicz. This act was read to the present and witnesses, by ourselves, the father and the first witness was signed, the second declared he does not know how to write.
Signatures:
Filip Niemczyk
Jozef Kurtz
Priest Apolinary Grochowski, vicar of the parish Virgin Mary

==

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

dnowicki — Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:13 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:13 pm

E Christopher, Elzbieta & Gilberto,

If Julia was born in Warsaw in 1859, the attached is a possible birth record. It is from a different parish (sw. Jan/St. John) but in 26 years people do move around. This child was given two baptismal names (Julia & Eufrozyna), but individuals with two given names often only regularly used one in later life. Again, only the marriage record will prove or eliminate it.

Dave

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

echristopherclark — Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:38 pm

Author: echristopherclark

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:38 pm

I am overwhelmed by your generosity, all of you.

One additional bit of information that may be relevant: in my research in United States-based records, I have determined that Bronislaw may have had a brother or half-brother named Frank Niemczyk born on our about 3 Dec 1894. I wonder if finding his birth record might help clear things up about Bronislaw. I have no record indicating where he might have been baptized, but now that we know where Bronislaw was born/baptized there might be more of a chance of finding Frank and proving that connection.

Any thoughts there?

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Anonymous — Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:50 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:50 pm

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

MOTHER: Julia Strzalkowska, unmarried, 26 years old
[/quote]

Considering Julia was born about 1859, then Antoni could be this one born in 1860.
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/160/0/-/31/skan/full/OPJ9jQN1FqBsnQlqqdupqw
Only the marriage record could confirm it.

Gilberto

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:40 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:40 am

Magroski49 wrote:

I think I found it! Yesterday I looked at births in 1885 and 1887 and could not find him. This morning I found the indexes for these years and still could not find him. Then I thought "what if Julia was a single mother at his birth?".
Then I looked for Strzalkowski surname in the index and there it was Bronislaw, in 1885, in All Saints parish. Here is the link to image of the original record #579: http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=1219d&sy=1885a&kt=1&plik=0579-0582.jpg#zoom=2.25&x=539&y=626

Will now check 1887 to see if he was baptized in that year.

Gilberto

Echristopherclark,
Gilberto,

Here is the Cyrillic record.

Panska, Chmielna - the very center of Warsaw, I am adding a little map.

Best,
Elzbieta

==

==PO260Cyr:
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=1219d&sy=1885a&kt=1&plik=0579-0582.jpg#zoom=2.25&x=539&y=626

DATE-of-ACT: /7/19/ - 19 April 1885 6 pm, parish All Saints, Warszawa
MIDWIFE: Jozefa Skupinska, midwife, 30 years old, residing in Warszawa, Panska Street number 1705? letter i
MOTHER: Julia Strzalkowska, unmarried, 26 years old
KTO: Bronislaw Strzalkowski, born /30 January /11 February/ - 11 February 1885, 3 am, in Warszawa, Chmielna Street 1549, letter ae/x
WITNESSES: Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski, Petersburg’s agent and Henryk Lupinski, merchant, both completely unrelated? residing in Petersburg and staying in Warszawa

579
It happened in Warszawa in the office of the parish All Saints /7/19/ April 1885 6 pm. Appeared in Jozefa Skupinska, midwife, 30 years old, residing in Warszawa, Panska Street number 1705? letter i, and in the consciousness of Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski, Petersburg’s agent and Henryk Lupinski, merchant, both completely unrelated? residing in Petersburg and staying in Warszawa and presented us a male child, declaring he was born in Warszawa, Chmielna Street 1549, letter ae/x on /30 January /11 February/ current year 3 am, with Julia Strzalkowska, unmarried, 26 years old. On the holy baptism held today the child has been given the name Bronislaw, and his godparents were Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski and Lucyna Strzalkowska. This act …
Signatures:
Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski (in Cyrillic) [NOTE: patronymic name, Bronislaw Radlowski, son of Antoni]
Henryk Lupinski

==

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

echristopherclark — Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:32 am

Author: echristopherclark

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:32 am

Thanks so much for all this help. It is worth noting that on his WW1 draft card, Bronislaw gave his birth date as 12 Feb 1885. That's where I got the date listed in my initial post.

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Anonymous — Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:02 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:02 am

I think I found it! Yesterday I looked at births in 1885 and 1887 and could not find him. This morning I found the indexes for these years and still could not find him. Then I thought "what if Julia was a single mother at his birth?".
Then I looked for Strzalkowski surname in the index and there it was Bronislaw, in 1885, in All Saints parish. Here is the link to image of the original record #579: http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=1219d&sy=1885a&kt=1&plik=0579-0582.jpg#zoom=2.25&x=539&y=626

Will now check 1887 to see if he was baptized in that year.

Gilberto

Translation of Niemczyk & Gurska Marriage Record

dnowicki — Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:21 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:21 pm

Hi,

I'm glad to see that you were able to get a copy of the actual marriage entry. It does give you clues about where to look for records of your great grandparents in Europe. The priest almost certainly did not see copies of their baptismal certificates since he did not enter the exact dates of their baptisms. He most likely accepted their word about the years as accurate. Julia's maiden name is spelled as PL posted. There are a lot of individuals with that surname baptized in that parish in Warsaw. Elzbieta can probably provide you with details regarding the parish in Warsaw since she is very familiar with the city. Your g. grandmother was from Lithuania and the name of the parish where she was baptized is given with the Polish spelling. There is a slight, but not significant, variation in the spelling of her maiden name. Instead of u the second letter is o with a diacritical mark. Those two letters in Polish have a very similar sound which often makes them difficult to distinguish when heard. At the time of her birth that parish was not part of the Congress Kingdom of Poland but was in the Gubierna of Wilno in the Russian Empire. After WWI until WWII it was part of the Second Polish Republic and presently it is part of Lithuania. Perhaps someone familiar with Lithuanian research can give you some hints. A lot of what is in the certificate simply deals with legalities of Catholic marriages and probably will not be of any help to you. But here is the translation of the record.

Hope this helps your research.

Dave

Left Column: Date of Wedding: February 18, 1912
Body of Entry: I, the undersigned, having been invited and called to this duty, constrained by neither force nor grave fear, the three announcements of the banns having been promulgated, and having had the mutual consent of those present through words, joined in matrimony Bronislaw Niemczyk from Cambridge, the son of Antoni (Niemczyk) and of Julia (nee) Strzalkowska (diacritical mark on l), baptized in the parish of All Saints in Warsaw in the diocese and gubierna of Warsaw on the (blank) day of the (blank) month of the year 1887, whose free status (for marriage) was sufficiently demonstrated, and Emilia Gorska (diacritical mark on o) from the same place (i.e. Cambridge), the daughter of Kazimierz (Gorski) and of Jozefa (nee) Filipowicz, baptized in the parish of Wozniany, diocese and gubierna of Wilno, on the (blank) day of the (blank) month of the year 1889, residing in this parish (i.e. St. Hedwig) for (blank) months or (blank) years, in the presence of the witnesses* Adam Konopka (age) 25 and Boleslaw Losnowski (age) 48.
I sent notice of this marriage to the rectors of the churches in which the above named spouses were baptized.
Rev. H(?) Zmijewski, Pastor (of St. Hedwig)
(or) a (priest) delegated by the pastor (or) bishop (ordinary of the place) of the bride.**

Notes: * Two witnesses along with the priest were required for q valid marriage. At that time the custom was that both witnesses were men. Today those witnesses would be the best man and the maid/matron of honor.
**The official designation of the bishop of a diocese is "the ordinary of the place."

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

PolishLibrarian — Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:54 pm

Author: PolishLibrarian

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:54 pm

echristopherclark~ I read Bronislaw's mother as Julia Strzałkowska. If you do a Google search of Strzałkowska (the feminine version of Strzałkowski) you'll see it is a valid Polish surname. If you search http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/ you'll see it is fairly common (2371 occurances) and the place with the highest concentration of this surname is Warsaw (262). ~PL

Re: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik

Anonymous — Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:01 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:01 pm

echristopherclark wrote:

Thank you so much for the tips. I was finally able to get to the Archdiocese today and snapped this photo of the record. I'm still trying to decipher everything it's telling me, so any help would be appreciated.

He was baptized in 1887 in All Saints parish, in Warsaw. Here is the link for the original records. No index, so you have to look one by one. Written in russian, but you can see the names in polish in the body of the record.
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryki.php?op=kt&ar=8&zs=9264d&sy=120&kt=1

She was from Wozniany, Wilno, Lithuania.

Dave will surely provide you a full translation.

Gilberto