PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

I have the records..... :-)

mrpiano17 — Wed May 04, 2016 7:42 pm

Author: mrpiano17

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:42 pm

Joe,

Please contact me directly at mrpiano17@aol.com - I have copies of your family's records.

Mike

Kazimierz Bałowek born September 4, 1882 in Siedliska, House #47 to Wojciech Bałowek (son of Antoni Bałowek and Marianna ?) and Zofia Bognn? (daughter of Jan Bognn? and Marianna Fochonek?) He was baptized on September 5, 1882.

The names are a bit hard to read, but hopefully this all makes sense to you.

Re: surname Bawolek

jebawolek — Wed May 04, 2016 9:06 am

Author: jebawolek

Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:06 am

Cheri, I will try to contact the local churches and thanks for the tips on communicating in Polish via the various apps/Internet options. I didn’t know they existed. Great info.

Dave, your explanation of the geography makes a lot of sense and in one of the documents my grandfather listed his former country as being Austria. It prompted me to research it bit further and I found that section of Poland had been under Austrian rule for over 100 years.

Dave, your explanation of the land administration hierarchy in Poland, and how it relates in US terms, makes it much easier for me to understand. Also, thanks much for the lead on the parish in Siedliska. That will be my first stop in trying to find Baptismal records. What a great looking little church. The whole area looks really beautiful based on what I can tell from the link Cheri provided earlier.

Cheri, Dave and everyone connected with PO have been outstanding. You really have given me a lot of information and resources for getting started on finding out more about my family history.

Contact Info Parish of Siedliska

dnowicki — Tue May 03, 2016 8:56 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:56 pm

Joe,

Attached is one more piece of info---the parish of Siedliska contact information in case you decide to follow up on Cheri's suggestion to contact the parish. The best way to look at a gmina in terms of USA administrative divisions is that a gmina is more or less similar to a township here. Bobowa is a town which is the center of the gmina or in our terms the township of Bobowa and Siedliska is a village within the boundaries of that township but not a subdivision of the town of Bobowa.

Dave

Re: surname Bawolek

dnowicki — Tue May 03, 2016 8:19 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:19 pm

Joe & Cheri,

Linguistic considerations and contemporary geography aside, what really nails down Siedliska near Grybow as the correct place rather than Siedliska near Grebow is late 19th Century geography. Grebow is out of the running because the village of Siedliska relatively near Grebow was not in Austrian Poland aka Galicia. It was in Russian Poland aka the Kingdom of Poland (Krolestwo Polskie). In that area the Vistula River formed the border between Austrian Poland/Galicia and Russian Poland and that particular Siedliska was on the wrong side of the river.
Cheri,
Yes, that is where I found Catherine's paperwork. The naturalization index cards on Family Search work well for post 1930 petitions. One difficulty with earlier Cook County naturalization records is that there were a number of courts in Chi-town where a person could be naturalized and I suspect each court numbered petitions according to its own system. The INS index card petition number worked perfectly for Catherine because it was a later naturalization. To add to the mix, Kazimierz's petition is indexed on the INS card on Family Search. Some of the info is the same as what is found on the Cook County Clerk's site, but it also provides the added info of the date he was naturalized. I'm sure that if one had a sufficient amount of time and patience it would be possible to browse through the images on Family Search and eventually possibly locate the papers for Jan and for Kazimierz. Joe, I would just bite the bullet and order the papers from the Cook County Clerk's office. That is what I had to do to obtain my maternal grandfather's and my maternal great grandfather's and my father's (he was 5 years old when he came to the US) papers in the days before that stuff was online. As I recall, it was not expensive---somewhere around $10. The reason that there are two sets of papers for Jan is that there was a time limit within which the naturalization process had to be complete. If it was not completed in a timely fashion then the person had to file a declaration of intention a second time. The advantage to ordering the papers from the archives of the court is that you get all the papers except the actual naturalization certificate which was given to the new citizen at the time of naturalization. His or her copy was the only copy of that document.

Although English is my first language I was fortunate to have been exposed to Polish as a child and am able to speak, read and write the language. I also have a fair amount of experience helping to fill out naturalization paperwork back in the 70s for the relatives of some of my Mexican friends. (Spanish is my third modern lingo.) I know how necessary it is to correctly phrase the questions in order to get accurate answers. Since many of the Polish immigrants had not been in the USA all that long their command of English was rather limited. If the person filling out the forms did not speak Polish and the petitioner's command of English was not great usually a third party who was more fluent in both languages acted as a go between which increased the chances of varying info being entered on different papers.

But anyway, Joe, you now should have enough info to give you a good start on going back in time with your family tree.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Tue May 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Joe,
You are correct, Bobowa is the Gmina for Siedliska. That is great that Bobowa was written on Kazimier's draft registration! Now I'm convinced that this has to be the right Siedliska.

I had read a little about Grybow too, and noted the cloth industry. I also wondered if that had anything to do with your grandfather's occupation, and grandmother's?

I know how you feel about wishing you knew Polish. I wish I did too. I have written to a cousin in Poland using Google translate. I would write very short sentences, and after translating them into Polish, I would translate them back to English to see if it made sense. It's far from perfect, but it was cool to be able to communicate.

If you were to go to Poland, you could hire a translator for part of your trip. My dream is to get there too. If you want to see your grandparents' baptismal records, you could try writing to the priests. There are online letter writing guides that show examples in the Polish language. I have read that priests get busy during the summer wedding season, so now would be a good time to write. Some priests will write back, some won't. If you did get your grandparents baptismal records, they would have your great-great grandparents names. The child's grandparents' names are on that record.

Cheri

Re: surname Bawolek

jebawolek — Tue May 03, 2016 4:23 pm

Author: jebawolek

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 4:23 pm

Cheri, Diane, thanks for your help. I wish I had learned the Polish language when there was an opportunity. My parents would speak Polish with other family members and sometimes when they didn’t want the kids to know what they were saying. Now that I’m MUCH older I wish I did know the language. What you relate regarding language/pronunciations is so interesting. And it’s understandable how names and or spellings could have gotten recorded erroneously.

I think Cheri is on the right track with her analysis of Grybow and Siedliska. In the WWII draft registration document for my grandfather’s brother (Kazimierz), his place of birth is listed as Bobowa. When I look at a map, Bobowa and Siedliska are in very close proximity to one another. From what I can tell through researching the Internet, Bobowa would have been the gmina (administrative district/municipality) for Siedliska. I picture this in USA terms as maybe Siedliska being a subdivision within a larger city/town (Bobowa).

It appears that Siedliska/Bobowa are within the county of Gorlice and only about 1 mile apart. Grybow appears to be a larger town further south but only 12 miles from Siedliska. I found through Internet research that Grybow was at one point a primary hub for the cloth industry. An interesting point is that my grandfather was a tailor by trade. It makes me wonder whether that is just a coincidence or whether he and the family were engaged in that industry for many years/generations based upon the locale.

The link showing pictures of Siedliska is magnificent. What a beautiful place. It makes me want to go visit and look for the Baptismal records at the local churches. However, since I do not speak Polish that might be a futile endeavor.

Thanks again,

Joe

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Tue May 03, 2016 8:40 am

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:40 am

Diane,
Thanks for sharing that information. I did know that a g at the end of a word would sound like a k. And of course the Polish w sounds like a v. That is why my sister had Novy Tark written as my grandmother's birth place, but it wasn't until now that I considered that my grandmother may have written down the English pronunciation for her.

Joe,
When you mentioned Grebow, all I could find was Grębów. I did not do an extensive search of possibilities, that was the only "Grebow" that showed up for me. I did know the ę makes the en sound, which would not sound like Greboff. I also know that sometimes surnames and place names are written sloppy, I mean not necessarily phonetically, on documents and the census. The example that I mentioned was my great grandmother's surname Boczkaj, which was spelled Bortsky. When I chose all 5 Polish speakers at https://www.ivona.com/, it sounds like Botchki or Bochki (with the i as in kite).

I hadn't considered Grybów until I saw that it was near one of the villages of Siedliska on the map that Dave posted. I just copied and pasted that name into https://www.ivona.com/ and listened to all Polish speakers. It does sound like Greboff to me, and sometimes Griboff. I do not offer that as proof, but because of the Siedliska that is near Grybów, I do think it's a strong possibility. Maybe there will be something on your grandfather's Naturalization records. Maybe you won't know for certain until you see his baptismal record from a Polish church. It does look like a beautiful place http://www.siedliska.info/

Cheri

Re: surname Bawolek

looking for clues — Tue May 03, 2016 12:33 am

Author: looking for clues

Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:33 am

Joe,
In your post you said "I did find a WWII Draft Registration document that lists my grandfather's birthplace as Greboff, Poland. However, when I Google the name Greboff nothing comes up. There is a Grebow" I see that Cheri thought it could be Grybów.

In my research there is a town of Opatów/ It is pronounced as if the word ended in the letters "of" and some US documents contained the of spelling because that's how it sounds. In a pronunciation guide "How to Pronounce and Recognize Your Polish Town and Family Names by Fay Vogel Bussgang" http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/Poland/PronunciationGuide.pdf it says "The final consonant of a word is unvoiced, i.e., the larynx (voice box) is not used to create the sound. The following letters change to their unvoiced counterpart at the end of a word: b→p, d→t, dz→c, dź→ć, dż→cz, g→k, rz/ż→sz, w→f, z→s. Therefore, Brzeg sounds like "Bzhek," and Kraków sounds like "Krakóf"

You might want to get a confirmation of the pronunciation of the town from a Polish speaker.

Good luck.

Diane

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Dave,
Is this where you found Catherine Janus Bawolek's Petition?
https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=Q4K7-W38%3A1010138201%3Fcc%3D2212212
I had tried to find the Volume numbers, dates, and petition numbers that I saw on the Cook County Circuit Court Declarations of Intentions site (that I mentioned above), and nothing seems to match. Would the petition number found on the index card at Family Search be different?

Joe,
Happy to help. I just want to make sure you've got the right Siedliska. When my sister was doing a high school genealogy project, she asked my grandmother where she was from and she said Nowy Targ. Actually my sister wrote down Novy Tark. When I found Nowy Targ it seemed to be too big of a town to be the village my grandmother described. It turns out she was from Załuczne, which is about 12 miles from the larger town of Nowy Targ. So you see, she did what I THINK your grandfather did when he said "Greboff".

I also wondered if maybe Grybów was once a powiat, and it turned out that it was until 1932. I don't know that it was the powiat for Siedliska though. It seems that the villages I was able to find in the powiat of Grybów were south of Grybów and they are now in the powiat of Nowy Sacz.

I learned that my grandmother was born in Załuczne from very helpful people that responded at Polish Origins. I had photos that were sent to my grandmother from Poland. One was in front of the Odrowąż church where my grandmother was baptized (Załuczne didn't have a church then). Do you or any of your relatives have any photos or letters from Poland that might help further in identifying the correct Siedliska?

I found John's brother Kazimierz Bawolek's marriage record at Family Search on the top left: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SQ3-9GN?i=36&wc=M66L-TWG%3A39539701%2C39805401%3Fcc%3D1452409&cc=1452409
It didn't have the village where he was baptized in the marriage record either. He also has passports at Ancestry from 1922 and 1925, and he was going to visit family in Siedliska, but it didn't name the Gmina or Powiat.

If you Google Siedliska Bobowa Bawołek you will get many hits. I think it's likely you have family there. I'm hoping that one of them will read this and get in touch with you.

Cheri

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: surname Bawolek

jebawolek — Mon May 02, 2016 7:19 am

Author: jebawolek

Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:19 am

Thank you Cheri and Dave. I found out more in the last two days than the last couple years. Your knowledge and expertise is amazing.

Thanks again.

Joe Bawolek

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun May 01, 2016 9:06 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 9:06 pm

Thanks, Dave! I didn't know the petitions were on Family Search.

I saw Siedliska on the map you gave that has Grybów and Polna. Siedliska is at the top near Biesna. I couldn't get this Siedliska to show up on Google maps until I put Biesna in. Maybe this is the Siediska that John Bawolek is from. Maybe the Greboff that he has on his WWII draft registration is Grybów, and maybe he just gave that town, as some people do, because it was the largest town around his village.

From the list of 29 villages named Siedliska, this is the one that is 11 or 12 miles from Grybów:
Siedliska - wieś w woj. małopolskim [Małopolska] w pow. gorlickim [Gorlice], w gminie Bobowa

Cheri

Catherine Janus Petition for Naturalization

dnowicki — Sun May 01, 2016 8:27 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:27 pm

Hi again,

Attached are Catherine's immigration index cards, her petition for naturalization and a map showing the two locations given in the petition, the town of Grybow and the village of Polna. She states that she was born in Grybow and lived in Polna before immigrating. This info should give a good idea of where to look for her birth record.

Cheri,

For future reference...Naturalization petitions from Chicago are online but it is a two step process to locate them since the petition images are not indexed. Step one in the process is to find the naturalization index card (which is indexed). Then search records on Family Search by location---Illinois image only records using the petition number found on the index card to find the image of the petition of interest.

Dave

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun May 01, 2016 8:24 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:24 pm

I just remembered the Cook County Circuit Court Declarations of Intentions site: http://www.cookcountyclerkofcourt.org/nr/default.aspx
Declarations of Intentions are considered 1st papers. Naturalizations are final papers. People had just so many years in between both, so it looks like your grandfather had to start the process over, because his name is on this list twice:

NAME BIRTH DATE BIRTH TOWN BIRTH COUNTRY OCCUPATION
BAWOLEK, ANTONINA 3/11/1897 TARNOV POLAND - AUSTRIA CATHOLIC NUN
BAWOLEK, JAN 1/19/1878 SIEGLESKA HUNGARY BUTCHER
BAWOLEK, JAN 4/28/1886 SIEDLISKA AUSTRIA PRESSER
BAWOLEK, KAZIMIERZ 9/4/1882 SIEDLISHA AUSTRIA LABORER
BAWOLEK, MICHAL 5/15/1889 SIEDLISKO AUSTRIA LABORER
BAWOLEK, MIKE 5/15/1889 SHIECLLISKA AUSTRIA LABORER
BAWOLEK, STANISLAW 1/16/1884 SIEDLISKA POLAND NOT GIVEN
BAWOLEK [BAWALET], JOHN 4/28/1886 SIEDLISKA POLAND - AUSTRIA TAILOR

First Declaration:
Record Details for Volume 51
Page Number: 289
Declaration Number: 25289

FIRST NAME LAST NAME OCCUPATION
JAN BAWOLEK PRESSER
BIRTH CITY BIRTH COUNTRY BIRTH DATE
SIEDLISKA AUSTRIA 4/28/1886
CURRENT ADDRESS CURRENT CITY
1940 GIRARD ST. CHICAGO
DEPARTURE LOCATION ARRIVAL DATE DECLARATION DATE
BREMEN, GERMANY 11/5/1903 2/26/1913

Second Declaration:
Record Details for Volume 268
Page Number: 91
Declaration Number: 131991

FIRST NAME LAST NAME OCCUPATION
JOHN BAWOLEK [BAWALET] TAILOR
BIRTH CITY BIRTH COUNTRY BIRTH DATE
SIEDLISKA POLAND - AUSTRIA 4/28/1886
CURRENT ADDRESS CURRENT CITY
2214 LYNDALE ST. CHICAGO
DEPARTURE LOCATION ARRIVAL DATE DECLARATION DATE
BREMEN, GERMANY 11/5/1903 5/28/1921

I also found your grandfather in a Naturalization Index at Ancestry. His name was spelled Jan Bawolik. He was born 4/28/1886
Certificate no. -60914 Date of Naturalization Dec. 5, 1924.

Franciscus = Francis/Frank

dnowicki — Sun May 01, 2016 12:59 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 12:59 pm

Hi,

The two witnesses are both men---John/Jan Ratzka and Francis(Frank)/Franciszek Janusz. The custom for centuries was that the two witnesses were both men. That started to change in the early 20th Century with a switch to one male and one female witness. In Latin records the terms "best man" and "maid/matron of honor" never appear. Their function was to witness the couple's exchange of vows and thus they are listed as "testes/witnesses". It is significant that the switch to a male and a female witness began in the early 20th Century, the time of the final push for a woman's right to vote in the USA. The entry in the notations section should be ignored. It is an entry for the marriage of another couple. Evidently the two marriages listed in that column had not been entered in sequence in the proper location and the priest was making an attempt to keep things in sequence. There is a good possibility that Frank/Francis/Franciszek Janusz was related to Catherine/Katarzyna.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun May 01, 2016 12:53 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 12:53 pm

Janus is also a Polish surname (also Janas and Janos). Maybe Janusz was the way Katarzyna's name was spelled in Poland, and maybe it was spelled both ways in records.

The witnesses weren't always 1 male and 1 female. Your are correct about the witness names, except that Franciscus would be Francis or Frank in the U.S. during this time period. In Poland the name would be Franciszek.

It says that John Bawolek was naturalized (Na) in the 1940 census, but so far I can't find him in a naturalization index. I did find Catherine Bawolek (Janus), who became a citizen in 1942. I had entered information about how I got my grandfather's records here: http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=657&highlight=Ins Shellie has some interesting information too. You could find what I wrote by scrolling down to the end of page 1. Dave also has some interesting comments on page 2.

You could get Catherine's naturalization number by searching for her name at Ancestry (where I saw it) or Family Search. My grandfather's record did name my grandmother's village too. The naturalization records don't always have accurate spelling either, and sometimes unlucky people will just get "Poland" for place of birth, but I think they are worth getting. The most accurate spelling would come from a Polish priest in church records...

Re: surname Bawolek

jebawolek — Sun May 01, 2016 11:10 am

Author: jebawolek

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:10 am

This is so interesting. Now I know the names of my great grandparents.

My grandmother’s maiden name was Janus. It looks like the Polish spelling would have been Janusz and they just dropped the z after a while in the USA. It looks like there were two witnesses possibly best man and maid of honor (?). One was Joannes (John) Ratzka and the other was Franciscus (Frances ?) Janusz. Would that be correct?

Thank you very much for your time and effort. This is really a great learning experience.

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun May 01, 2016 1:28 am

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 1:28 am

My grandfather didn't speak English well either. On his Social Security application it said his mother's maiden name was Bortsky. It was Boczkaj. He had signed the application, but the rest of it wasn't his handwriting. Yes, there is a village and Gmina named Grębów. I do understand what you're saying, and it's entirely possible that Greboff is Grębów. I would feel more comfortable if it was written correctly on a document.

I found your grandparents' marriage record at St. Hedwig on July 2, 1907. Unfortunately it does not give their birth places. Priests did collect the information on where they were baptized. I was told that if it isn't in the marriage record book, that it may be in a wedding banns book, so you could ask the parish office of St. Hedwig if they have that information.

Here is the link to their marriage record at Family Search, it's on the top right:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6XPS-KSW?i=121&wc=M66P-NZ9%3A39965201%2C39692901%3Fcc%3D1452409&cc=1452409

The marriage record does have your great grandparents' names. First I wanted to note the line above the l in Bawołek. That is the equivalent of the typed ł. The first names are in Latin, Joannes is Jan/John. His father Adalbertus is Wojciech, his mother Sophia is Zofia. Catharina is Katarzyna. Her father Joseph is Józef, her mother Anna's name is the same in Polish.

Re: surname Bawolek

jebawolek — Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:29 pm

Author: jebawolek

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:29 pm

Thanks again for your help. I am new to this and kind of stumbling along. Yes, Siedliska came up with a long list. What you say makes a lot of sense now. I'm sure these Polish immigrants that were struggling with the new language and new country had many problems communicating accurately. I'm also sure the people taking the information tried to do their best but also found it to be a struggle.

I did find a WWII Draft Registration document that lists my grandfather's birthplace as Greboff, Poland. However, when I Google the name Greboff nothing comes up. There is a Grebow, Poland and I believe that the person taking the draft information from my grandfather probably did not spell his birthplace correctly. My grandfather never spoke very good English and it is entirely possible that his pronunciation sounded like Greboff when actually he meant Grebow. I hope this makes sense.

Do you know of a town named Grebow in Poland?

Re: surname Bawolek

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:32 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:32 pm

Oh, my, did you count something like 29 villages with the name Siedliska? Siedliska means habitat in Polish. So if you translate this page https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siedliska it would say Habitat instead of Siedliska. Next to each village Siedliska is the political divisions that they are in. The woj. is the larger divisions such as Podkarpackie. Pow. is powiat kind of like a county, and Gmina, I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's a slightly larger village/town that Siedliska would be a part of. I believe civil records from Siedliska would be kept there. So IF your grandfather was from Siedliska, you would need to find something further to identify which one he was from. For instance, I have seen Świlcza, Rzeszów on records for my grandfather's village, because it's in Rzeszów powiat. There is only one village named Świlcza, but often Rzeszów may be added anyway.

Are you saying that you have seen two different villages that your grandfather was from, on records that are his for sure, or are you saying that you have seen your grandfather's name on these records and wonder which one could be where he was from? Many of us have been there in the beginning of our search, so we understand.