PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:59 am

Author: Danette

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:59 am

Oh, he is listed as Ancze Schifman. Father - Froim

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:58 am

Author: Danette

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:58 am

Hi Elizbieta,
This morning someone found a record that lists Hanchel's surname as Schifman. From Lomza. (I still believe he was born in Jablonka, close to Zambrow). Maybe he can be found now under this surname?
Thank you so very much for all you've done, I couldn't do it without your help!
Best,
Danette

Hi Gilberto,
Thank you for the maps!! It helps to see the region!
Best,
Danette

Re: Schiff Family

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:19 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:19 am

Another idea.

Schiff is very much for English or German ears, French would be Chiff, Polish ... that's the question.
There is a Jewish given name, written Szifra in Cyrillic, but I have seen the same given name written Szyfra or Cyfra/Cypra in Latin scripts - it is very easy to confuse Cyrillic handwritten f and p.
The attached is a capture of the given name Szifra in Cyrillic, which would be Schifra for English-German ears.

The word "schifra" sounds for Polish ears very much like "cyfra"=digit (a number between 0 and 9).

I wonder if we shall look also on Schiff Last name written in Cyrillic very much like Cyfr* (any suffix).

Best,
Elzbieta

NB. The list of Jewish given names used in Poland is inside
http://genealodzy.pl/PNphpBB2-printview-t-30669-start-15.phtml

Re: Schiff Family

Anonymous — Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:39 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:39 pm

Danette wrote:

What if it is Zembrow, and not Zambrow?

Zembrów
woj. mazowieckie
pow. sokołowski
gmina Sabnie

Gilberto

Hi Gilberto,
It very well could be, I am not ruling anything out yet, especially since I am not familiar at all with Polish towns etc. (I'm working on it though :}). Would Jablonka and Zareby Koscielne be around there? Lomsa(Lomza)?
Danette

See maps showing Lomza, Zambrow and Zembrow. And to make things more confused there is a group of villages named Jablonna (Jablonka?) about 6 miles away.

Gilberto

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:10 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:10 pm

What if it is Zembrow, and not Zambrow?

Zembrów
woj. mazowieckie
pow. sokołowski
gmina Sabnie

Gilberto

Hi Gilberto,
It very well could be, I am not ruling anything out yet, especially since I am not familiar at all with Polish towns etc. (I'm working on it though :}). Would Jablonka and Zareby Koscielne be around there? Lomsa(Lomza)?
Danette

Re: Schiff Family

Anonymous — Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Danette wrote:

Yes, please jump in Elzbieta and thank you!!
Wow, Ostrow, very popular.
I think I may have it narrowed down to Lomsa (Lomza?) but I saw a census on Jewishgen that had Ancze Szyfman as having been born in Jablonka. I found a Froim (that was listed as his father on the same census) as having been born (in est 1850s) in Zareby Koscielne - are these places close to Zambrow?
Thank you so very much for searching szukajwarchiwach.pl for me, I'm forever grateful!
Best,
Danette
Also, there was a rumor that Nathan put his birth year back 2 years from 1900 so that he could marry.

What if it is Zembrow, and not Zambrow?

Zembrów
woj. mazowieckie
pow. sokołowski
gmina Sabnie

Gilberto

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:08 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:08 pm

Yes, please jump in Elzbieta and thank you!!
Wow, Ostrow, very popular.
I think I may have it narrowed down to Lomsa (Lomza?) but I saw a census on Jewishgen that had Ancze Szyfman as having been born in Jablonka. I found a Froim (that was listed as his father on the same census) as having been born (in est 1850s) in Zareby Koscielne - are these places close to Zambrow?
Thank you so very much for searching szukajwarchiwach.pl for me, I'm forever grateful!
Best,
Danette
Also, there was a rumor that Nathan put his birth year back 2 years from 1900 so that he could marry.

Re: Schiff Family

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:26 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:26 pm

Danette,
Gilberto,

Jumping in your conversation.

Schiff written in Cyrillic is:
Шифф
Шифф

Handwritten versions will be much more alike Cyrillic handwritten alphabet
http://www.baylor.edu/content/imglib/5/2/8/52880.jpg

I followed both URLs given by Gilberto:
1. Akta stanu cywilnego Okręgu Bożniczego w Zarębach Kościelnych, years 1881 to 1912
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/ar15-zs0420d
2. Jewish records for Zambrow in Polish National Archives
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/5/174/0/str/3/15?ps=True#tabJednostki

In the first one, metryki, the records are indeed as said, per annum (I checked birth indexes for three years).
But in the second one, in a given year, one may find records from a dozen of past years. It seems to me, we had it already here on PO, that many Jewish records were registered in late.
No Шифф in 1878.
I browsed birth indexes for 1879, 1880, 1887, 1888, 1889, 1890 - did not see any single Schiff - Шифф, any single name starting with Шифф*
Maybe not that Zambrow, powiat Łomża?
My last chance will be - when szukajwarchiwach.pl comes back online, it's broken now - to search for Nathan, born 7 June 1898.

Concerning Ostrów, it is very popular name, so it does not help at all.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostr%C3%B3w

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Schiff papers

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:39 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:39 pm

Magroski49 wrote:

Danette wrote:

Let's see if this works

March 5, 1878 in one record
March 12, 1879 in the other.
I think the ship name is La Champagne.

Gilberto

Yes, I saw two birth dates and years, still haven't narrowed down the month and date but fairly certain his birth year is 1878. The ship is Lake Champlain from England UK to Canada (I think it was from England to Canada). Then the Grand Trunk Railroad from Canada to the US. I have them in the US (not Canada and England. My grandmother, their daughter was born in England - but I have yet to find a birth certificate for her). I'm trying to find them back in Poland.
Danette

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:34 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:34 pm

Magroski49 wrote:

Danette wrote:

Gilberto,
I really appreciate the link, sadly I can't read or understand Polish. I tried the English version but as far as I can tell, it says no digitized records.
Danette

Those records are written in russian (after 1868). Even worse, in a format I had never seen before.
His birth year 1878 is not available. Perhaps his parents married in 1877 or early years.

Gilberto

Well Russian makes it even worse for me! . I'm sure it was earlier years.
Danette

Re: Schiff papers

Anonymous — Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:20 pm

Danette wrote:

Let's see if this works

March 5, 1878 in one record
March 12, 1879 in the other.
I think the ship name is La Champagne.

Gilberto

Re: Schiff Family

Anonymous — Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:57 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:57 pm

Danette wrote:

Gilberto,
I really appreciate the link, sadly I can't read or understand Polish. I tried the English version but as far as I can tell, it says no digitized records.
Danette

Those records are written in russian (after 1868). Even worse, in a format I had never seen before.
His birth year 1878 is not available. Perhaps his parents married in 1877 or early years.

Gilberto

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:59 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:59 pm

Gilberto,
I really appreciate the link, sadly I can't read or understand Polish. I tried the English version but as far as I can tell, it says no digitized records.
Danette

Schiff papers

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:28 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:28 pm

Let's see if this works

Re: Schiff Family

Anonymous — Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:02 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:02 pm

Danette wrote:

Gilberto,
I'd be happy too, if only I could figure out how! The pic link wants a URL for the photo and I have them in my iPad (no URL). Is there another way to attach them? There are three pages.
Danette

If it is in a computer...no larger than 2MB in .jpeg format. No idea how a iPad works.
Jewish records for Zambrow in http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/5/174/0/str/3/15?ps=True#tabJednostki

Gilberto

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:55 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:55 pm

Gilberto,
I'd be happy too, if only I could figure out how! The pic link wants a URL for the photo and I have them in my iPad (no URL). Is there another way to attach them? There are three pages.
Danette

Re: Schiff Family

Anonymous — Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:46 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:46 pm

Danette wrote:

Thank you for the link Gilberto, I will check it now.
Best,
Danette

Could you upload his Nat papers?
Gilberto

Re: Schiff Family

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:50 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:50 pm

Thank you for the link Gilberto, I will check it now.
Best,
Danette

Re: Schiff Family

Anonymous — Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:41 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:41 pm

Danette wrote:

Hello, I hope this is the correct place to post this. I am researching my family and trying to find out where in Poland they are from and if there are still relatives there. This is what I have:
Hanchel (Anchel, Herman) Schiff born 1878. His father was Fred. Hanchel's wife, Cyrel (Tzirel) Lewis (Lieb) born 1882/84. They went to England then Canada then to U.S. around 1901/02. (I don't know if Fred came along). Hanchel and Cyrel are buried in the Ostrover section of the cemetery here in the US. I've been told this means they came from Ostrow. On Hanchel's naturalization papers, he says he was born in Zemberof, Russian Poland. (Pretty sure the town is a misspelling). I've found an Anzce Szfyman whose father was Friom on a Polish census, but no other information. Anzce was born in Jablonka and Froim possibly Zareby Koscielne - I don't know if these are the same people.
Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I've been looking for years!
Daenyneras@gmail.com
Thank you!

Danette,

Zareby Koscielny jewish records in http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/ar15-zs0420d

Gilberto

Schiff Family

Danette — Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:53 pm

Author: Danette

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:53 pm

Hello, I hope this is the correct place to post this. I am researching my family and trying to find out where in Poland they are from and if there are still relatives there. This is what I have:
Hanchel (Anchel, Herman) Schiff born 1878. His father was Fred. Hanchel's wife, Cyrel (Tzirel) Lewis (Lieb) born 1882/84. They went to England then Canada then to U.S. around 1901/02. (I don't know if Fred came along). Hanchel and Cyrel are buried in the Ostrover section of the cemetery here in the US. I've been told this means they came from Ostrow. On Hanchel's naturalization papers, he says he was born in Zemberof, Russian Poland. (Pretty sure the town is a misspelling). I've found an Anzce Szfyman whose father was Friom on a Polish census, but no other information. Anzce was born in Jablonka and Froim possibly Zareby Koscielne - I don't know if these are the same people.
Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I've been looking for years!
Daenyneras@gmail.com
Thank you!