PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Zenon — Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:54 am

Author: Zenon

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:54 am

Shellie wrote:

Dave,
Thank you so much for your help!

I looked up Staromieście in the Gesher Galicia Galician town locator and I see that the Greek Catholic parish for Staromieście was in Zalesie. Since the notation suggests the wedding was in Staromieście, I think that perhaps he married in the Roman Catholic church. Has anyone viewed records for Staromieście or Zalesie?

Shellie,

This is so good to see you here again and see the big leap you made in your research .

One of our team members, Kasia (@katarzyna_t), made a phone call to the Rzeszow Civil Registers and ask about the record marriage record of your Andreas Ferenc and... they found it

Now, if you want we can try go get it for you as we did already for some people as part of our research projects: https://polishorigins.com/genealogy/ .

The first step in the procedure is filling out the official authorization form granting one of our people the right to get extract of the record. The form for Rzeszow Civil Registers is here: https://bip.erzeszow.pl/static/img/k02/USC/PE%C5%81NOMOCNICTWO%20DO%20ODEBRANIA%20ODPISU%20AKTU%20STANU%20CYWILNEGO.pdf . Of course we will help you in filling out the form.

You have to sign the form and send to us by regular mail (paper).

Next, the authorized person will go to Rzeszow, pay the required fees, and she should get the official extract.

So, if you want to proceed, please let us know .

P.S. I am remember us talking about your Ferenc family on our Genealogy Tour many years ago. I told you then about the mayor of the city of Rzeszow Tadeusz Ferenc. He is still the mayor and (what is rare among politicians) after so many years is still respected by most citizens of Rzeszow.

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Sophia — Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Hi Shellie,
Happy to be able to help!
I went and retraced your steps to see how you got in to these church records. It is easy to see how their error made it so confusing for you as to what you were viewing. My approach was to search their CATALOG for anything from Boryslaw. When you go in that way, it is easy to differentiate between what is in the Greek Catholic vs. Roman Catholic church books.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:42 am

Author: Shellie

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:42 am

Thanks for the reply Sofia, I was confused by your comment because I thought I was looking at the Ferenc births in the Greek Catholic church book. So I went back and discovered that in the file of Greek Catholic records (202 images) I was viewing (not identified with a film number) – my Ferenc records are image 54, 83 and 122. I did not notice this earlier, but although the images are clearly marked Greek Catholic at the top of the page, when I hover over the image, a pop-up indicates these are ROMAN Catholic records (see screen shots below).

I also found the same images on film 2395693/4944947 (Roman Catholic records for Boryslaw, 892 images) but on this film, the exact same records are image 99, 128 & 167.

So, yes! I found my Ferenc ancestors in the ROMAN Catholic records for Boryslaw. I need to contact Family Search to alert them of the mistake! Elias and Teodor’s ORIGINAL records are probably in the Greek Catholic records, but I just need to locate them. Thank you so much for replying to my message – it has really made a big difference in my plan to move forward!

Kindest regards,
Shellie

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Sophia — Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:41 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:41 am

Shellie wrote:

Well, it took 10 years, but I finally made some progress with my Ferenc and Wawro families! Although I have not yet found my family in Sądowa Wisznia church records, I found a connection to my Wawro side after some wonderful people identified my ancestor via his military uniform - you can read about it here: https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=9669

Next, I found my great-grandfather's birth information in the Drohobycz/Boryslaw Greek Catholic records, viewable online at Family Search. Interestingly, only one of 3 brothers has an actual entry notation in the church book. For my grandfather and his brother Elias, I found only a note from 1907 with the vital information. This was probably in preparation for travel to the USA, for this was the year that my Ferenc family began to emigrate to America. I attached an image of the 3 items. Does anyone have any thoughts about why their baptisms were not entered in the book. I was not able to translate the entire document, but I did understand enough to identify new names for my tree! Perhaps there are additional clues that I have missed that might explain the missing entries - were they baptized in another parish?

For my ancestor Andreas Ferenc, I see that info was extracted twice - in 1921 (most likely for his wedding) and in 1942. He did not come to the USA, so I am curious about why his record was reviewed in 1942.....
Does anyone have a suggestion for the name written next to his wedding date - a village name?

Hi Shellie,
You have an interesting puzzle here. I looked on Family Search, and the records they have for Boryslaw (Drohobycz) are:
Greek Catholic Church 1784-1885 which does not include the years of Ferenc births.
Roman Catholic Church 1786-1890 which appears also to not include the right years.
However, when you open up the Roman Catholic Church records, there is Film #2395693, Item 2, which contains births 1886-1900 (includes certificates and extracts) so now you've got the right time span.
So, the place where you found the info on your three Ferenc ancestors is in the Roman Catholic books. Yet, the two certificates (Theodor and Elias) clearly indicate their baptisms were in the Greek Catholic church. So, perhaps this is the answer to your question as to why they have only certificates, not actual church book entries. It may be that the family started off in the Greek Catholic church, then changed to the Roman Catholic church before the birth of Andreas. Then, in 1907 they may have requested their pastor provide baptism certificates to them, and he had to obtain that info from the Greek Catholic church, and he added the certificates to the RC church books for the sake of completeness. Just a theory. What do you think?
Sophia

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:07 pm

Author: Shellie

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:07 pm

Dave,
Thank you so much for your help!

I looked up Staromieście in the Gesher Galicia Galician town locator and I see that the Greek Catholic parish for Staromieście was in Zalesie. Since the notation suggests the wedding was in Staromieście, I think that perhaps he married in the Roman Catholic church. Has anyone viewed records for Staromieście or Zalesie?

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

dnowicki — Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:15 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:15 pm

Shellie wrote:

Well, it took 10 years, but I finally made some progress with my Ferenc and Wawro families! .
Does anyone have a suggestion for the name written next to his wedding date - a village name?

Hi Shellie,

Congrats on your progress!

The entry notation for the marriage of Andrzej reads “cop(ulavit) 12/XI 1921 in Staromieście” and is translated “He married on November 12, 1921 in Staromieście”

Staromieście is currently part of the town of Rzeszów.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm

Author: Shellie

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm

Well, it took 10 years, but I finally made some progress with my Ferenc and Wawro families! Although I have not yet found my family in Sądowa Wisznia church records, I found a connection to my Wawro side after some wonderful people identified my ancestor via his military uniform - you can read about it here: https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=9669

Next, I found my great-grandfather's birth information in the Drohobycz/Boryslaw Greek Catholic records, viewable online at Family Search. Interestingly, only one of 3 brothers has an actual entry notation in the church book. For my grandfather and his brother Elias, I found only a note from 1907 with the vital information. This was probably in preparation for travel to the USA, for this was the year that my Ferenc family began to emigrate to America. I attached an image of the 3 items. Does anyone have any thoughts about why their baptisms were not entered in the book. I was not able to translate the entire document, but I did understand enough to identify new names for my tree! Perhaps there are additional clues that I have missed that might explain the missing entries - were they baptized in another parish?

For my ancestor Andreas Ferenc, I see that info was extracted twice - in 1921 (most likely for his wedding) and in 1942. He did not come to the USA, so I am curious about why his record was reviewed in 1942.....
Does anyone have a suggestion for the name written next to his wedding date - a village name?

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm

Author: Shellie

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:55 pm

Thank you Zenon! I found that the LDS family history center has some records for Sądowa Wisznia. It makes me wonder if maybe my Ference family lived there and my grandparents met and were married there.

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Zenon — Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:13 pm

Author: Zenon

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:13 pm

Yes Shellie, now I would confirm with great certainty that it reads Sądowa Wisznia or in Ukrainian Судова Вишня .

Click here to see Sądowa Wisznia on a map: http://tinyurl.com/2vlpmo6 . As you can notice it is located only about 22 miles (or 32 kilometers) from current Polish Ukrainian border.

This is a very old little town about which first mentions come from 1230. Click here: http://tinyurl.com/3ywq3yy to see English translation of entry on Polish Wikipedia.

According to SGKP (Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Poland) in 1880 among all 3887 inhabitants of the town were 2326 Greek Catholics, 424 Roman Catholics, 1100 Jewish. Both Greek Catholic and Roman Catholic parishes were in the town. The Roman Catholic parish has existed here since 1368

Unfortunately, in Polish state archives resources there are only some Jewish records from the beginning of 1900s.

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:55 pm

Author: Shellie

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:55 pm

Thank you so much Tad!

Ancestry.com has her birth place as Sadowa Wisznia. I'd like to hear whether other readers think this is what was written on the manifest shown above.

Does anyone have any information on this village?

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Tad-TadeuszWysocki — Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:12 am

Author: Tad-TadeuszWysocki

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:12 am

Yes, all family roots are going to Drohobycz/Austria - Poland - Ukraine, as your Jan and Julian can be found with EI records:
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?pID=101424150021
=
They arrived on Sep 06, 1910 by ship Kaiser Wilhelm der Grose, from Port Bremen/Europe, Jan Ferenc (Ferenc for sure!) as 49 y old, and son Julian Ferenc as 17 y old, they left in Drohobycz their Kata (Katarzyna) Ferenc, they were going in the US to son/brother Teodor.
Their ethnicity was Polish for sure.
=
I agree with friend Zenon that the first word given for POB for Katarzyna & children in Philaldelphia port records was Lwow (z "Lwowa"), and maybe second word was the part of Lwow, but I'm not sure.
Thus, you can search all genealogical records for the older generation with Drohobycz records, checking Katarzyna & children as well - if not, the records from Lwow/Lviv must be researched.
=
Hope this helps a bit.
Most cordial congratulations for your so big efforts to preserve the most important on the planet - the family roots and heritage.
Tadeusz
RootsPoland.com
Warsaw
PS. Here is for your Family History Book the etymology in brief of your family name FERENC:
This very old Polish family name FERENC is patronymic in origin, noted in old Poland from the year 1606, and derived from the Hungarian language and name "Ferenc" - and this name is derived from Latin name "Franciscus" (a free, freeborn, open, sincere man).

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Zenon — Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:49 am

Author: Zenon

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:49 am

Well, I am not sure. It seems to me (the first part) similar to something like Lwowa ("from Lvov"). But this is my wild guess.

Do you know religion of if this branch of your family? Because their last residence was Drohobycz it is probable that some of the children (the youngest) could be born there. Maybe it would worth to try to find birth records from the beginning of 20th century from Drohobycz and try learn from them more about parents. The best would be marriage certificate of Katarzyna with Jan.

To locate appropriate records we would have to know religion first, or at least take assumption of that. The http://www.halgal.com/ website may be very helpful in Eastern Galicia search.

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:20 am

Author: Shellie

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:20 am

I've posted both pages from the manifest. Thank you for looking.

Re: Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Zenon — Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:10 am

Author: Zenon

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:10 am

Shellie,

Can you try to upload bigger fragment of the record? Maybe we would be able to compare the letters (especially the first three) to the others written by the same hand.

Ferenc from Drohobycz and Boryslaw

Shellie — Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:12 pm

Author: Shellie

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:12 pm

My Ferenc and Wawro ancestors came to the USA from the Drohobycz area. My ancestor Katarzyna Ferenc arrived in Philadelphia on 14 MAR 1913 with 4 of her children. Her destination was Broughton, Pennsylvaina to meet her husband Jan Ferenc.

Her husband Jan and sons Theodor and Julian (also known as Louis) Ferenc arrived several years earlier and were working in the Webster / Donora Pennslyvania area.

Family legend states that one other son, Andrew, had a hand injury - missing finger - and could not come into the US (I don't have any documentation of this, however).

Details:
Katarzyna Ferenc age 42, married, arrived Philadelphia
March 1913 on Ship Prinz Adalbert.
Traveled with children:
Franz, age 15
Stanislaw, age 10
Maria, age 8
Susanna, age 6

Contact in US: Husband Jan Ferenc, Broughton, Pennsylvania
Contact in Home Country: Father Jan Wawrow in Drohobycz
Last residence: Drohobycz
Country of Birth: Austria
Town of Birth: ?

I am unable to read the name of her birth place, however, her contact in her home country was her father, residing in Drohobycz. Any thoughts on what this entry says?