PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

60schild — Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:28 pm

Author: 60schild

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:28 pm

Well, Marcel was able to translate the marriage document which Cynthia had located but there is a problem. The Stanislaw Targonski who was married in 1904 according to the doc, was only 21 years old. That would mean he was born in 1883. I know from various records (US census, travel docs and US citizenship) that MY Stanislaw Targonski was born in 1879.

Hence the difference in the wife's name (Supinski born in Kleszcze) in the marriage doc from the one in the joint travel doc, US Census and citiizenship (which was Zubrzycks born in Grodno).

It appears to be a different Stanislaw Targonski than the one I am researching.

Oh well, two steps forward .. one step back...

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

dnowicki — Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:24 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:24 am

60schild wrote:

Thanks Dave. This is definitely developing into a mystery (hopefully Marcel can give the complete text). That Stanislaw's parents would be Stanislaw and Teophila is VERY odd and contradicts some (meager) research on my part.
From sources listed on http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl , I find 2 possible family trees for Stanislaw. If the claim that his father's name was Josef IS correct, there's a possible paternal match listed there (Jozefat) IF Stanislaw's birthyear is off by a couple of years. If however, his 1879 birthyear IS correct, there is another line (possible match) with a Stanislaw who had parents of MAlE (father) named Teophil and his mother Marianna Rzaca.

Previously I just didn't know which lineage was correct. Now (if what you are saying about the marriage record is true), then I don't know what to think (a FEMALE Theofila instead ....)

It only get stranger and stranger...

There are also unsubstantiated rumors of some Jewish admixture in the predominantly Catholic line but that's another story....

Thanks for the help so far guys, but it seems like with every step it just gets more mysterious (and confusing)

And by the way, my handle of 60schild... I was born in '59 and my childhood was the 1960's!!

Hi again, Child of the '60s,

Just a word of caution about the info you found on Geneteka…probably neither of those entries are viable for your research. If you look at the parish from which those records were indexed you’ll notice that the records are from the parish of Kobylin Borzymy, which is about 40 km (not a huge distance but not exactly close either) from Zawady so the chances are that if those indexed individuals are related to your Stanisław, they are related only distantly.

On Geneteka at the top of the page you see a line “Parafia” (Parish) followed by the words “wszystkie miejcowości” (all locations). If you click on the arrow and scroll down through the list of parishes to Zawady you will find that the records indexed for that parish do not include births but are limited to marriages for the years 1865-98. There are no good matches for his parents on that list. It does not mean that his parents were not married there but since he was born in ’79 his parents may have been married prior to ’65 (if he was one of their younger children). It could also mean that they were married in another (non-indexed) parish. It is important to keep in mind that Catholic marriages took place in the parish where the bride lived. Just because they raised their children in Targonie Wity in the parish of Zawady it does not mean they were married in that parish.

Indexing on Geneteka is done by volunteers and there are undoubtedly many records which have not been indexed yet. Podlasie is not where my ancestors came from but my nephew asked me research the genealogy of his little daughter (who is definitely a cool three-year-old). My late sister-in-law (my brother’s late wife) had ancestors from Podlasie (Rajgrόd) and it was only in the last couple of years that those records have appeared on Geneteka. However, the actual records are not online. It appears that the volunteers do the indexing at one of the Polish National Archives (Białystok in this case) and sometimes the records have not been digitalized. However, often there are LDS films of those records which can be rented.

My youngest sibling was born in ’58 (I’m the oldest and started H.S. in ’60).

Good luck with your search,

Dave

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

60schild — Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:32 am

Author: 60schild

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:32 am

Thanks Dave. This is definitely developing into a mystery (hopefully Marcel can give the complete text). That Stanislaw's parents would be Stanislaw and Teophila is VERY odd and contradicts some (meager) research on my part.
From sources listed on http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl , I find 2 possible family trees for Stanislaw. If the claim that his father's name was Josef IS correct, there's a possible paternal match listed there (Jozefat) IF Stanislaw's birthyear is off by a couple of years. If however, his 1879 birthyear IS correct, there is another line (possible match) with a Stanislaw who had parents of MAlE (father) named Teophil and his mother Marianna Rzaca.

Previously I just didn't know which lineage was correct. Now (if what you are saying about the marriage record is true), then I don't know what to think (a FEMALE Theofila instead ....)

It only get stranger and stranger...

There are also unsubstantiated rumors of some Jewish admixture in the predominantly Catholic line but that's another story....

Thanks for the help so far guys, but it seems like with every step it just gets more mysterious (and confusing)

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

dnowicki — Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:12 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:12 am

60schild wrote:

I'm resarching the Targonski family who lived in Targonie Wity (and possibly Lomza) around the turn of the century without too much success. I know that Stanislaw Targonski was born Sept 1879 and that he left Poland in 1904 for the US (settling in MA). His father (named Josef) and presumably other siblings remained in Poland. I have no idea if they were Catholic or Jewish or any other details of the family in Poland.

Can anyone offer any help?

Any idea what Targonie Wity was like at that time? Any significence that the family wouid have the same name?

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

The three named villages are all distinct places. According to the attached entry from the Słownik geograficzny…(The Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Poland), a multiple volume work published in increments from 1880 to 1904, in 1827 Targonie Wity was a rural village which had 16 houses and 146 inhabitants. Currently the population is 107. All three villages are part of the parish of Zawady. In the early 1900s the villages and the parish were part of Powiat Łomżynski (Powiat of Łomża) which would explain any records in the USA which state that he was from Łomża since he probably never lived in the city.

One attached map is from 1907 and the other is a contemporary Polish map. The entry from the Słownik and an entry showing that all three villages were part of the same parish are also attached.

According to the marriage record found by Cynthia, Stanisław’s father was also named Stanisław (not Jόzef/Joseph) and his mother was Teofila. It would be most pleasing to be considered a kind soul but I’m not competent enough with Russian to translate the entire marriage record. I can usually read the important data but that is the extent of my ability. Certainly Marcel will provide you with a complete translation. As a language guideline, civil registrations in Russian Poland aka the Kingdom of Poland (Krόlestwo Polskie) were kept in Polish (using the Roman/Latin alphabet) from 1808 until early in 1868 and then in Russian (using the Cyrillic alphabet) from 1868 until the end of WWI. A useful rule of thumb is to use those dates as guides to determine the language of the documents for anyone not familiar with either language.

Wishing you success,

Dave

P.S. The 60s certainly were a heady time when those of us who were in college at the time had high hopes that we would make the world a better place---a great time to have been young.

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

60schild — Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:13 pm

Author: 60schild

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:13 pm

Thanks for the help!!! LOL

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

mcdonald0517 — Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:10 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:10 pm

The marriage record is written in Russian Cyrillic.

Go the forums tab on this website. Look for a forum called "Russian Records Translation".

Post the marriage record to that forum and ask for a translation on record #2 on the page.

Cynthia

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

60schild — Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:24 pm

Author: 60schild

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:24 pm

Thank you Cynthia. That is indeed the correct Stanislaw. I had located his naturalization form but not the marriage record. I hope someone can translate it for me as I do not read/speak Polish!!!

My research also shows his wife as Michalina (Minnie) Zubrzycka (Census forms in the US) but the fact that the marriage record lists her as Dominica Supinska is a complete mystery to me. Even if the first name is another form, why would the last name be different?

Definitely a mystery!

Now can any kind soul, translate the marriage doc??

Re: Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

mcdonald0517 — Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:13 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:13 pm

Hello,

I found several US census documents and citizenship papers for Stanislaw Targonski. I am attaching his application for citizenship. It has lots of information on it. I was unable to find birth records online for Targonie Wity for 1879, but I did find a 1904 marriage record for Stanislaw Targonski in Targonie Wity which matches his date of marriage in the naturalization papers.

There is one mystery with these documents and that is the name of his wife. The naturalization papers give her name as Michalina, but all the census documents and the social security death record gives her name as Minnie Zubrzycka. Perhaps the person filling out the naturalization forms automatically converted the diminutive "Minnie" to Michalina (Stanislaw could not write and signed the papers with his mark "x"). However, the marriage record gives the name as Dominica Supinska. Minnie is also a diminutive form of Dominica. So, the question remains: is this marriage record indeed your ancestor?

If MarcelProust or another member of the community can translate this Russian marriage record for you, then you can find out if the record is for your Stanislaw Targonski. I am also attaching the marriage record - his in entry #2.

I hope this helps.
Cynthia

Targonski family from Targonie Wity / Lomza

60schild — Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:08 pm

Author: 60schild

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:08 pm

I'm resarching the Targonski family who lived in Targonie Wity (and possibly Lomza) around the turn of the century without too much success. I know that Stanislaw Targonski was born Sept 1879 and that he left Poland in 1904 for the US (settling in MA). His father (named Josef) and presumably other siblings remained in Poland. I have no idea if they were Catholic or Jewish or any other details of the family in Poland.

Can anyone offer any help?

Any idea what Targonie Wity was like at that time? Any significence that the family wouid have the same name?

Thanks in advance.