Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:53 pm
Post subject:
Shellie,
He left home because he did not get along with his new stepmother. He jumped ship (believed to be LLoyd's Northern) in the US and tried to enlist at the age of 16. He could not enlist due to his age. Believe it or not, the Navy recruiter, only a few years older than him (DOB 1882), offered to adopt him, provided he enlisted in the Navy. His adoptive mother Jane, was born in 1898. His parents had 2 addition sons, born in 1918 and 1921.
-Michael
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:14 pm
Post subject: Roosevelt - Stalin big game, and Warsaw Uprising in '44
Here is an amateurish translation of Polish historian's answer, in Polish, to British historian, N.Davies, concerning Warsaw Uprizing in 1944.
It enlights Roosevelt - Stalin big game, during and after WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Davies
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OBSERWACJE Z USA
Andrzej Targowski
Answer to Norman Davies '44
Amateurish translation of http://www.powstanie.pl/index.php?ktory=10
British Professor Norman Davies is the most famous and reliable Polish historian, so each of his new books is snapped up by Polish readers. So it is with his latest book, titled "Rising '44 - Battle of Warsaw," called in analogy to the "Battle of Britain '40," published first in English. Author argues that "it was a terrible betrayal by their Polish allies." Poles have always thought so, and confirmation of this thesis by the British is like placing a dot on the "i" in this case. But is it artificially idealized illusion or truth? It is fortunate that this column is written in Polish and will not be understood by foreigners, readers of the above mentioned book.
Let's try to answer the arguments and questions raised by N. Davies. Poles were not betrayed in July 1944, as the Allies did not promise us anything, and even explicitly opposed the uprising that interfered with their struggles after the invasion of Normandy and was in conflict with the Soviets, which suffered the greatest losses in soldiers (1:59) as compared to a loss of U.S., and which could lead them to a premature peace with Germany. There is abundant evidence for. The British sent their own representative (Retyngier) to Warsaw to warn the authorities of the Underground about that situation. But he was not listened to, he was even poisoned, but survived the attack.
"If London and Washington expected the uprising breaks out, why not ask the Moscow and not try to get a warranty for your lonely Polish ally?" President Roosevelt did not want at that time to discourage Stalin to make sacrifices in the war, especially when he was preparing them for the war with Japan. To this end, and in that time [the US] trained 15,000 Soviet sailors in the port of Cold Bay, Alaska, whom was planned to allocate 30 frigates, 60 minesweepers, submarine chasers 56 and 30 landing craft. Training was led by the Navy Capt. William Maxwell (born as Dzwoniecki in Warsaw, and because he could curse in Russian, so he got the job). FDR knew that to win against Japan he would have to collect five million soldiers, and the war could last until 1948, the issue of minimizing his own losses due to the generosity of the Soviets was closer to the American President than the dispute over the Polish border with the Soviet Union.
"If Moscow had clearly expected an uprising in the capital ally of Western powers, why the Soviets did not have attempted to discuss the matter with Western leaders, or even for a local agreement?" That's why Stalin did not do it, because the uprising was good for his own idea, with the help of the Germans to get rid of competition for his Government of Lublin. Besides, he was consistent in this case, whether in Katyn, in Volyn, whether in Vilnius, or elsewhere. Stalin only agreed to bear the loss of millions in his own army for the price of "Polish spoils." After all, the meaning of the Uprising was to not to surprise Germans, but the Soviets.
The opponents of the Uprising was the High Command of the WP [Wojsko Polskie, Polish Army] in London and even the Army Commander - Gen. T. "Bor" Komorowski, who saying goodbye to his wife said, "that even if we win it, in a week I will be find myself in a Soviet prison." And before that he weaved and evaded as much as he could, from the decision to start fighting.
As usual in the great history of the world, not cases of great dynamics dictate solutions, but small incidents. The First World War began with the assassination of the heir to the trone, the defeat of Napoleon at Moscow during the harsh winter began in Warsaw, where a very young Polish Lady (MW [Maria Walewska]) stopped the great Emperor and 600 thousands army for three months. Equally surprising was not finishing off the British by the Germans at Dunkirk in 1940 because Hitler had a fondness for the British. Also, the Uprising outbroke, because the Commander Army did not want to allow the coup within their own ranks. If it had not issued an order to the Uprising, such an order would be issued by the Heads of Staff of the Army, the generals Pełczyński and Okulicki who by this type of blackmail informed his Commander.
For nothing here seems all the military analysis of Uprising, its aim was fast and great defeat and that "blood flowed streams, and the walls were falling into ruin." Only this kind of tragedy could make the "world opinion would force governments to strikethrough Tehran’s decision and save the Republic. "This wasted and stupid ideas waas formulated by General L. Okulicki who pushed for rapid Uprising. He came to London, where he was instructed by General K. Sosnkowski, the Supreme Commander, to prevent the uprising. Unfortunately, contrary to the instructions, he acted unfairly, violating military discipline. As writes Jan Matłachowski (1978), "Gen. "Bor" described him as a "daredevil" prone to drinks and beats and said of him: "This is the one." Those who knew well Okulicki, exclude he could take such a big task on his own and prove that he would have be inspired by someone ... if so, it remains a mystery, by whom? "
It seems that General Okulicki met in London (arrived from Italy from the II Corps WP) Prime Minister St. Mikolajczyk, who was planning a trip to Moscow and was looking for a strong and the only card for talks with Stalin. After all, he had sent a not discouraging message from London to Warsaw Uprising (where he had "his" people) on July 26, just before leaving for Moscow. Thus General Okulicki in Warsaw was so pressed for quick start of the Uprising, neglecting its military aspect … And so on to follow the thread to the bottom we almost deciphered the mystery of the "meaning" of Uprising, giving occupation to a "prosecutor" or neutral historian-political scientist. That, unfortunately, prof. Davies have not done in his book.
It is true that young people burned to fight, but to winning and not to commit suicide. It is therefore necessary to distinguish between Uprising and the Insurgents, when we analyze the "1944." Uprising proved to be a national disaster, which can only be understood by a Warsovian. Uprising is also synonymous with Polish heroism, German and Soviet barbarism, and the Anglo-Saxon too much self-interest (here you can agree with N. Davies) and the lack of ethics and even good manners.
This strong assessment of the "Allies" of Poland does not exempt Polish leaders from their responsibility to risk the Polish lives, and their material and cultural achievements. The truth of the Uprising now should improve today the selection process for leaders to the highest position in the Third Republic. The cries of 200,000 dead, 400,000 injured and 600,000 who did not return to the capital city ask for that, as well as cries of the Uprising ruins. The size and prevalence of heroism of Insurgents and residents commits us all. Otherwise the "yeast would go on grinding." Is anyone listening to them or only.. Mulch listen to them [Mulch, Chochol – reference to Polish literature]?
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: General Pulaski
| mmbsmith wrote: |
In talking with the Admiral's daughter, Colleen, I learned that ... |
Michael, do you know if William Maxwell spoke Polish? Does his daughter Colleen remember?
I wonder why his letter to Polish President in Exile, Zaleski, dated 1 September 1955, is in English (Sirdan's URLs with scanned letters, translated to Polish). If William Maxwell was Polish, he spoke Polish. Such a clever person knew perfectly well his place of birth, his mother tongue, and as a military he had access to better maps than Google.
Other points/ideas:
1. When I referred to the marriage record Dzwoniecki/Heller, it was not for this couple [he was 46, single, she was 49, probably no children), but for the father in Pultusk. My idea would be to see if Jan Dzwoniecki father had other children, maybe father of Wlodzimierz aka William Maxwell.
2. There is no record for William Maxwell receiving Virtutti Militari Order. You think he could receive it for Hula. Why? What is the motive from Polish perspective for Hula? Hula was purely Roosevelt-Stalin deal, big game between big boys, Stalin accepted to take care of Japan, 3 months after the end of the WWII, and Roosevelt sent his fregates. It was after Yalta, after Poland being left to Russians for next 35 years. I can very well understand US government decorating William Maxwell, but not Polish.
Please note I am not historian, my questions are purely common sense, looking for some logic.
Elzbieta
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:50 pm
Post subject:
Elizbieta,
Could you send me your email address? I would be more comfortable having a private conversation in order to address my theories that aren't necessarily backed up by solid evidence.
Thanks,
Michael
[email protected]
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sirdanPO Top Contributor
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**Back to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:10 pm
Post subject:
The scan of the letter from the Society to the President is transcription as Elżbieta noticed. Maybe original one is hidden is some archives, You could compare Admiral's singnature if he had signed the letter. The Society might not be settled in law, it might be informal group of Pulaski medal receivers. I found a record of appointment between one of chief of the Society and Zaleski president however.
The best book about Virtuti military order receivers is "The Order Of The Virtuti Militari And Its Cavaliers 1792 - 1992" by Z. Wesołowski, written in polish and english. It's available for borrow in library in Pilsudski institute 180 Second Avenue, New York, NY 10003. Online list based on this book does not contain W. Maxwell which is intriguing. As a side note, there are given thousands different kinds of this medal however.
I see no much of description of Pilsudski order, only archived auctions here (replica) and here. Following desription there: very rare medal for "colonists" fighting for freedom of USA. First introduced in 150 years after death of Pulaski, there are two versions of it.
Young man speaking several languages, wanting to cut from previos family; adopted (is this hepled him to become US citizen?) would be perfect person for agent/spy work. (Ups.. i didnt read carefully brief history, he actually chased spies  ) Wonder why "Bolshevik" nick, it somehow does not sound right for polish guy. Probably considered as russian was his choose, might it been well suited for his job too. Russian soldiers more likely would obey orders from Commander with russian roots than polish. If he was awarded with Virtuti Militari medal, then i'm afraid we don't know yet why he got it.
Added later. More information about Pulaski Medal http://mypolishtimes.com/index.php/news/658-central-citizens-committee-presents-pulaski-medals-432010 I guess Admiral Maxwell got this medal and Virtuti Militari for what he made after Admiral retirement.
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Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:11 pm
Post subject:
Sirdan,
I managed to post this response in the wrong place. I will try again.
In talking to the Admiral's daughter, Colleen, she referred to the Virtuti Militari as the highest award given to a non-polish citizen who performed exceptional service for Poland. I have written to Prof. Wesolowski regarding the medal, but he has not responded.
The Admiral was fluent in Russian, Polish, English and had a good working knowledge of German. I believe his nickname, "The Bolshevik", was due to his first language being Russian and that he served as an interpreter on the USS Brooklyn during the Siberian Expedition.
He was proud of both his Russian and Polish ethnicities. In 1938 he helped break up a Russian Spy ring in Los Angeles. I have joked with Rick Russell that he seemed to be a mixture of Indiana Jones and a brilliant Forrest Gump, always in the right place as history unfolded.
Thank you for the lead about the Pulaski Award. It gives me a starting point for inquiry.
-Michael
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:47 am
Post subject: Few hectic items
Few items, quite hectic.
1. Extraordinary site http://translit.cc/ with really useful Cyrillic - Latin transliterrations. Hats off to them. Definitery an URL to have it handy on PO.
2. When we are at the end of WWII, we shall not forget important things to the big boys. Wernher von Braun and his team from Peenemunde comes to my mind. I recall being fascinated by Michener's book, and his hypothesis or fact, that the Germans were entered to the US without any record on immigration, than later on they have been using tricks, such as ordinary Mexican immigration path, to have them recorded somewhere, and be able to close the loop. No doubt that adoption of a young boy under age in 1916 has been solving many pesky hurdles. The recruiter was very clever.
3. Maps from 1910
3rd Military Mapping Survey of Austria-Hungary
Index sheet of the general map of Central Europe (1:200 000)
The original sheets were published about 1910
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
To see Dubno click on intersection [43° Latitude ; 50° Longitude] city Brodi - Dubno is in the right top corner.
4. Old geography book from that time, page of Dubno starts on 194, ends 197
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_II/194
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sirdanPO Top Contributor
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**Back to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:04 am
Post subject:
Michael, if you are really interested finding more info about why Admiral Haswell got Virtuti Militari Order, then you could follow advice i found on one polish forum with similar subject. First the poster adviced to contact with Polish Section of Ministry of Defense Archives in UK for confirmation if the person of interest was awarded by VM order. Next step would be to contact with Sikorski Institute in UK for copy of actual application/petition for awarding.
Definitely Admiral William Maxwell deserve for writing biography, his brief story and awarded medals confirms he had interesting life. There is always chance to find interesting facts about him, that no one could think of. I wish you that and good luck in you research
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