Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:24 pm
Post subject: POGORZALA
I've been searching many websites including Ellis Island's, and I've tried variant spellings of our name, Pogorzala, and am finding no records. We're from a rural area near Poznan and my grandfather was born there Feb. 24, 1886. His parents brought the family to Buffalo, N.Y. around 1890 or so.
Any suggestions?
Doug Pogorzala Pratt, [email protected]
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:28 pm
Post subject:
Hi Doug,
When I'm looking for spelling variations, I go to the Ellis Island Gold Form
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/eidb/ellisgold.html
In the last name section, I typed in Pogor and then set the results for 500. I got almost 200 records with different spelling variations. I find this to be a very helpful method for finding surnames. It is also very handy when I'm trying to figure out names of villages.
If you use another method, please tell us about it. I am always looking for alternative ways to figure things out.
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:53 pm
Post subject: Thanks, from Doug
Hi, Shellie,
Thanks for the tips. You won't believe what just worked...
I found a guy with a variant spelling whose arrival date looked right. But not the same name, and alone, no wife or kids. I know both my GGParents and their 5 kids came over, together or on different vessels, so...
I changed the search to the ship this guy had sailed, got the right voyage, and opened the ship's manifest and guess what...the whole family's there but they can't be searched because instead of the last names the immigration officer just put ditto marks!
Finding the first names confirms this man, Pogorzata, not Pogorzala, is my GGFather. Because after they get to Buffalo the name becomes Pogorzala makes me think that's closer to whatever the original surname may have been...perhaps Pogorzawa or something like that.
I can't be the first to miss relatives because their last name is entered as ditto marks. Could you pass this serendipity on to others who may find it helpful?
Thanks, Shellie,
Doug Pogorzala
Last edited by edouglaspratt on Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:10 pm
Post subject:
Doug,
What exciting news!!!
I wonder if your family name was originally Pogorzała. That Polish letter that looks like an L with a diagonal line through it really causes alot of confusion for us non-Polish speakers. Sometimes it becomes a T and other times it becomes an L - like with my great-grandmother: Kadłub became Kadlub here in the US.
I think your experience with the Ditto marks is quite interesting. We should post it as a new thread in this forum. May I have your permission to paste part of your message in a new thread?
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:29 pm
Post subject: DITTOS OBFUSCATE THE SEARCH
Sure, Shellie, share this dittos tip...that's what I'd hoped you could help me to do.
Did I explain it clearly?
Doug
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:01 pm
Post subject:
Doug,
I double checked the manifest for your ancestor and actually we were mistaken about the ditto marks.
The rest of Stanislau Pogorzata's family is listed as having the surname Pagorzata! When you click over to the Ellis Island manifest, instead of viewing the orginal image of the manifest, click on "text version of manifest" There you will see all of the surname spellings as they were entered into the Ellis Island database. I find that the text version of the manifest also gives me lots of clues when I'm stumped.
Let us know what else you find in your research. Have you added your surname (and variations) and village name to the databases here? It is sure to help someone else in the future.
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:02 pm
Post subject:
Hey, Shellie, I'll have to double-check that. I could have sworn the handwritten mainfest has dittos for Appolonia and each child...
maybe I'm losin it...!
Doug
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:09 pm
Post subject: Pogorzata
Okay, it's clear. The handwritten original Manifest, p. 222, line 424 etc. has first names and dittos for the last name, all under Stanislau Pogorzata.
The typed version shows last names. Thanks!
Doug
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Post subject:
I am becoming more convinced that your family name was originally Pogorzała. Here is a close-up of the ship manifest (click on it to see a larger image). I can't quite read the name of the village from which they came.
What else do you know about your family origins? Do you know what village they actually came from?
You might find this interesting:
There is a village Pogorzała Wieś:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogorza%C5%82a_Wie%C5%9B
http://pogorzala-wies.org/
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/13268623
There is also a village Pogorzała:
http://worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Pogorza%C5%82a
Pogorzała (German: Seifersdorf) is a village in the administrative district of Gmina Świdnica, within Świdnica County, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, in south-western Poland. Prior to 1945 it was in Germany. It lies approximately 6 kilometres (4 mi) south-west of Świdnica, and 60 kilometres (37 mi) south-west of the regional capital Wrocław.
Finally: Here is a link to some Polish marriages, mostly in the northern area. This page will take you to some marriages with your family name: http://www.przodkowie.com/metryki/en.php?szukanie=Pogo&lit=1
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:09 am
Post subject:
Friends, I just found my GGParents listed as Stanislau Pogorzata and Appollonia Pagorzata, as well as their 5 oldest children who arrived at Ellis in 1892.
Thank you Shellie, Zenon, and others for your guidance.
Doug Pogorzala Pratt
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:21 am
Post subject: POGORZALA
Shellie, you are GOOD! This is incredibly helpful.
The area of origin named on the handwritten Manifest that's so hard to read is Prussia Sedlec Handlan...I've googled it in several ways but all I find is the infamous Sedlec in the Czech Republic...no Sedlec Handlon.
However, the Pogorzala villages you found may be the better leads. We had always heard the family came from a rural area that bears the family name.
By the way, this is very important because the place name is the best clue to the true family name...the immigration clerk was probably twice in error writing Pogorzata and then Pagorzata. The family may well have retained Pogorzala.
Thank you so much, Shellie.
Doug Pogorzala Pratt
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:17 am
Post subject:
I'm so glad that I was able to help you. Not long ago I was just beginning my research and landed here at Polish Origins. Zenon and the Polish Origins members were so kind and helpful to me and it really helped me move forward with my project.
Within 8 months I was ready to visit my family villages and had a great visit on my own Forefather's Traces Tour with Zenon. He even provided me an opportunity to blog before and during my tour. You can read it here if you are interested:
http://blog.polishorigins.com/2009/06/11/shellies-family-history-and-tour-to-ancestral-places/
I'm sure that one of our members here will be able to comment on Prussia Sedlec Handlan - there is so much collective knowledge here among the members.
-Shellie
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:41 pm
Post subject:
Doug,
Have you visited the Poznan Project Marriage Database?
http://bindweed.man.poznan.pl/posen/search.php
I typed in Pogorz and found several marriages with your surname, some from Siedlec.
In 1884 you will find the marriage of
Stanislaus Pogorzała (22)
Apollonia Maychrzycka (21)
The website also indicates that the Latter Day Saints have filmed the records for your village - but it looks like they don't have record images that cover the dates of Stan and Apollonia's marriage or births:
LDS microfilms
BM 1779-1820 BM 1779-1820 1197840 #2
BMD 1802-1809 BMD 1802-1809 1197841 #1
The other sources of records for this parish listed on the database website:
Archdiocesan Archive in Poznan
B 1779-1851
M 1802-1809 1821-1851
D 1779-1851
State Archive in Poznan
B 1818-1874
M 1818-1874
D 1818-1874
Zentralstelle für Genealogie in Leipzig
B 1779-1809
M 1779-1809
D 1802-1809
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:28 pm
Post subject: Poznan marriage
Shellie, it's like seeing a friendly ghost! I'm sure you've found my Great Grandparents' marriage, and probably many of my extended kin on that list.
I googled Siedlec Sroda and got only indirect hits, all in Polish. It might be a Diocese or Bishopric. I'll post a query to the list asking what Siedlec Sroda is, unless you know.
I'm eager to read the story of your pilgrimage to Poland. I may end up doing the same thing.
Best regards,
Doug
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
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