Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - Looking for ANY info on Stramas and Miedzyczerwienne

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MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 7:48 am Post subject: Looking for ANY info on Stramas and Miedzyczerwienne

My great-grandmother Antonia Strama was born 10/15/1886, in the Nowy Targ district. Her last place of residence (as stated on the ships manifest) was Miedzyczerwienne. I have also found evidence of some Stramas that were from Maruszyn, which is only a few miles from Miedzyczerwienne. Any info about the Stramas, etc. would be so appreciated. I have hit a brick wall and can find no other info on her. An interesting (and frustrating) side note: My GG lied to census takers in 1920 and 1930. She also lied on her marriage license (she remarried after my GGrandfather was killed in a mining accident), using her sister's name (Tekla) and the surname of my GGrandfather was also wrong. Someone once told me that a lot of immigrants from Poland would do these type of things to hide who they were because they were scared of being tracked down. By who? Anyone else heard this?

Antonia Strama's likely siblings are : Anna Barbara, Tekla, and Jan. I have no info on her parents. She stated on her marriage license application that her parent's names were Andrew and Barbara, but years later when she applied for social security she said her father's name was Andrew and she didn't know who her mother was. I just don't believe anything that she had said and have had to play detective to try to find the truth.

Shellie
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject:

Hi Michelle,

Your story is very interesting. I have some questions:

Antonia Strama, born 10/15/1886 near Nowy Targ.
Upon arrival in USA, last residence Miedzyczerwienne..........when did she arrive? Can you share the info so we can locate and view the manifest?

From Social Security Application: father Andrew - mother not named
(perhaps her application was being filled out by someone else on her behalf).

Where did you find the names of her siblings? Have you tried to track your family history through any of these siblings?

Census 1920 and 1930: What info did she lie about?

First marriage: What year? in USA or Poland? Do you have any leads on this?

Second marriage: Incorrect information - do you have an image of this marriage certificate?

I have one Strama family associated with the family records I have from Odrowaz Podhalanski. This is the family of Jozef Strama and wife Agnieszak Czepiel. I don't think that Jozef Strama was from Odrowaz because there were no other Strama familes listed. Jozef Strama was the son of Agnieszka Strama and an unknown father.

Jozef's wife Agnieszka Czepiel was from Odrowaz - there were many Czepiel families from Odrowaz. Jozef and Agnieszka had at least 5 children:
Anna Strama, born 1893 in Chicago
Jan Strama, born 1895 in Chicago
Stanislaw Strama born 1899 house 207 Odrowaz. and died July 14, 1988 (probably in Odrowaz)
Franciszek Strama born 1902 house 207 Odrowaz, and married Ludwika Rzatkosz from Maruszyna on 24th Jun 1930
Kazamirez Strama born and died 1905 house 207 Odrowaz.

It is hard to say whether this Jozef Strama family is related to your great-grandmother. If you have no other leads, you might want to check Chicago records to see if you can find a marriage for Jozef Strama and Agnieszka Czepiel and also look at the birth records for the 2 children who were born in Chicago.

I look forward to your reply to my questions

I also began a thread about your village at: http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15499#15499

MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:13 am Post subject:

Shellie,
I missed reading this post before I posted again. Sorry! For the SS application, either my grandfather or one of her children from 2nd marriage filled it out out. By the block letters, looks like my grandfathers writing lol.
She arrived 24 Jul 1907, on the ship Kaiser Wilhem der Grosse. Rumor has it she met my Great Grandfather on the ship (Jozef Miller or Muller), but can't prove it.
I foun siblings on various ship manifests. They all listed Anna Barbara Strama as destination. Anna Barbara came over in 1901. Thank God for the destination section! I would not have found them any other way. I have had contact with the grandson of Anna Barbara (actually his wife, who is administering the tree). She was a little help, and gave me some ideas as to why my GGrandmother would possibly hide who she was. She sent me a picture of Anna Barbara, and she is a dead ringer for my father!! My brother thinks she looks like me, and I think she looks like my aunt. I just have this gut feeling I am on the right track, and the physical resemblance is uncanny.
In the 1920 census, she either lied (or census taker was an idiot) her year of immigration, the fact she could read and write (she could not speak english, but could Polish, German and Russian. The Russian I think she might have picked up from her 2nd husband, who was also a pole), her age, and the fact that my Great Grandfather and his sister (Rudolph Miller and Helen Miller) were not identified by their last name, but her 2nd husbands last name. On the 1930 census she does correctly identify them as the stepchildren of her husband, but immigration year is changed again, as is her age.
On her marriage license to her 2nd husband, Mike Liszczinski, she again gave incorrect age, then identified her deceased husband's last name (my Great Grandfather) as Kocun! His name was Jozef Miller. That one really has me stumped.
On the social security application, Antonia lists her father's name as Andrew, and mother unknown (this was in 1965). When she remarried in 1914, She listed her parents as Andrew and Barbara Strama. Why she forgot who her mother was is a puzzle. She also said she was born in Warsaw. To me, nothing jives on the SS app. I have a strong feeling her father's name was Jozef (and also from Jan listing his father as Jozef when he came over in 1905. BTW, Jan went back and forth to Poland at least 4 times. I have no evidence he returned to the US permanently. I think he stayed in Poland.)
As for marriages, I have a document for the 2nd marriage in 1914, in West Virginia. She and my great grandfather were likely married in New York, sometime between 1907-1909. My grandfather was born 27 Jun 1910 in Brooklyn. I have a court document from when he went to our local district court to get a declaration stating that's when and where he was born. The original birth certificate was destroyed. Family story is that Mike and Attie wouldn't let Helen (grandfather's sister) go out on a date, so in a fit of temper set a fire in the attic, destroying what family papers, etc were in a trunk. I have written the city of New York asking for a copy of his birth certificate. They cashed the check (that was 3 years ago) but have recieved nothing. I have heard that a great many records were lost through fires, flooding etc.. I also can find nothing documenting their marriage. I know they were both catholic, as was my grandfather, but nothing so far has turned up in my searches. I have been doing this over 5 years and they have been my brick wall.

I have attached Attie and Mike Liszczinski's marriage certificate (He later americanized it to Laschinsky).

attieandmike_471.jpg

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MichelleLeach53

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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:46 am Post subject:

Shellie,
A couple other things: On a land deed from Ohio in 1923, she again used the name Tekla. They subsequently lost the land in the depression. By 1930 they were settled in Pontiac, MI (where I was born). It looks like they slowly migrated north from West Virginia to Michigan. I also have in my notes a Josef Strama going to someone in Clarksburg, West Virginia, where Mike and Attie were married (ironic). However, I don't have them on me right now and will have to check again when I get home.

Shellie
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:02 am Post subject:

Hi Michelle,
Can you tell me more about Josef Miller?
Was he Polish?
When did he arrive?
Where did he live and do you have him on the 1910 census?
Where and when did he die?

Do you have anything to suggest that he changed his name to Miller when he arrived in the USA?

MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
Replies: 21

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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject:

Shellie,
He really is just a mystery. My father tells me he was from Germany, but in the census records for 1920 and 1930 they list my grandfather Rudolph and his sister Helen's father as being from Austria Poland (Galicia). I've scoured the 1910 census and cannot find them. They would have been living in or around Brooklyn at the time, because my grandfather was born that June. From family stories, what I have learned (and I don't know how much truth there is to it; they really did not talk about the old country), that they met either coming over or just after she got here in 1907. I have no proof they actually married! They were both catholic, so I can't imagine her having 2 children with him anf not marrying him. Helen was born in 1912, also in Brooklyn. Sometime after that, they must have headed to W. VA. My GGrandfather was supposedly killed in a mining accident there when grandpa was 4 yrs old, but she remarried in January 1914, when he had yet to turn 4! They were married in Clarksburg, Harrison county in 1914, then by 1920 living in Flemington, Taylor county. I am guessing my Ggrandfather died somewhere around Clarksburg (she sure wasted no time after his death to remarry lol) I have gone through any mining accident death lists, W VA death lists from 1912-1914, find a grave, you name it! Tried both Jozef Muller (and Jozef Kocun for the heck of it) Nothing. It's like he never existed. I have also checked under Muller, because a lot of time at Ellis Island they saw the name Muller with the umlaut above the "u" and changed it to Miller because it does look like a dotted "i" if you don't know german. I also noticed Mike Liszczinski was a miner, and wonder if he and my Ggrandfather knew each other or maybe worked at the same mine, and that's how he knew my Ggrandmother..... I think there is a good possibility that Jozef WAS polish, but conflicts with what I've been told. I also was told that Jozef's family were violin makers, and know for a fact that my grandfather was a pretty good violinist. My dad tried to get me to play. I started in kindergarten, but by 4th grade was sick of it lol.

MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject:

Shellie,
On a curious sidenote, there was a Jozef Kocun that came over 14 Feb 1909, from Tzeniskowica, Russia Poland. That wouldnt mesh with what was given on census report though (if true). My dad told me once that grandpa had an older brother who died. Don't know if thats true. Dad also told me Mike Liszczinski was in the russian army. How does that happen if he's austrian pole, as census says he is? My grandfather could speak russian. Where did he get that from......

Shellie
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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject:

Joseph Moller, a miner, married, died in Burke Co, WV on 5/25/1913. Death was not accidental, but from consumption.

I attached the entry, but you can view the full page here: http://www.wvculture.org/vrr/va_view.aspx?Id=4763683&Type=Death

Maybe the full death certificate, if available, will reveal more info.

ALSO:

Your grandmother probably married her 2nd husband in Holy Trinity Catholic Church in Clarksburg WV. Polks 1921 directory of Clarksburg shows it was a Polish church, and John Duda was the priest ---note J Duda filled out the return on the bottom of the page). The church was torn down but the records might be with the diocese. Might be worth a look.

Muller Death 1913 cropped.jpg

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MichelleLeach53

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Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject:

Shellie,
I've seen that but always dismissed it because of cause of death. I had wondered if it might be him. I'm going to go back at it.

MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:10 am Post subject:

Shellie,
Would the diocese have more info than is shown on the marriage license?

PolishLibrarian
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:57 am Post subject:

Practice in Catholic churches of the time varies, but my grandmother and her sister's church marriage records of 1912 & 1915 included their parents names and the name of the town where they were baptized. This was at the Polish church in the Polish neighborhood of Mpls. MN. The same is true in Chicago. There are many examples posted here on the Forum. Good luck. ~PL

dnowicki
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:09 am Post subject:

Michelle,

As PL wrote, the info in a Catholic marriage record varied. The requirement was that records of births, marriage and burials (later also First Communions and Confirmations) were to be kept but the details of what exactly was to be included was open ended. A number of companies printed and sold sacramental registers and the information asked for by the headings varied from publisher to publisher. Also the individual priest chose how much of that asked for info he would include so what is actually in a record depends on how detail oriented and meticulous a record keeper the priest was. The info recorded in the register was first gathered together in "notes" before the marriage took place and sometimes that preliminary info survives. (Often it is in the form of a book recording the announcements of the banns prior to the wedding.)
Every diocese has its own policy on what happens to records of closed parishes---sometimes they are transferred to the archives of the diocese and sometimes they are housed in a parish near the location of the closed parish. The chancery office of the diocese should be able to tell you where those records are stored.
Wishing you success.
Dave

MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:24 am Post subject:

thank you all for the info. I am still at a loss as to why she used her sister's name and a bogus last name on the marriage license (If her name was false does that mean the marriage is invalid lol)....

MichelleLeach53

Joined: 15 May 2014
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:34 am Post subject:

I just emailed the Wheeling-Charleston diocese. They cover the entire state of West Virginia, and am hoping they have something!

MichelleLeach53

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Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:33 am Post subject:

Made a pretty big discovery in the past couple of days! I found two more siblings (through ship manifests) of Antonia Strama. A younger sister, Diana, came over in 1913, to visit the same sister Anna Barbara, in Passaic, NJ. Another Brother, Josef, came over in 1909, same situation as above. A possible 3rd brother, Jedrzej (or cousin) from same tiny village (Miedzyczerwienne) also came over in 1913. I discovered I was reading a part of the manifest wrong. The section where they specify who the nearest relative in their home country I couldn't decipher until I realized it's staggered a bit. Once I figured this out I saw that my GG, Dianan and Josef all specified their mother as Stanislawa Strama! I now have my 2nd great grandmother's 1st name. Still don't have maiden name.

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