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Bugatti99



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:27 am      Post subject: "owski" suffix
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So could the 'owski" be added to show the family they came from? Such as:
"of the family"? My mother's family surname from Stara Zbelutka (Kielce) is Skrzatek however the various acts show the parents in this town as Skrzatkowa, Skrzatka, Skrzatkow... but the children are still named Skrzatek in the same act. So I imagine it is just how it is written in the act but all means Skrzatek. But in a nearby town, and a much earlier acts of the town of Kunow in the early 19th century, there exists two names (at least how it is listed) in the town of Kunow: Skrzatek death act from 1807 (this same person was married in 1802). Then also exists acts with the name Skrzatkowski. These names are listed on the site only and I cannot see the original acts. I think it is strange that in such small towns, such unique surnames would exist and not be related. When I look at the distribution of Skrzatek or even Skrzat for that matter, it is all and only concentrated in this Kielce, Cracow region.

The only time I have seen Skrzatkowski used is when my great grandpa immigrated here, his first and second born children all were born with the name Szatkowski on their birth record, even though documents parallel to this time shows he is using the name Skrzatek, and they were legally changed to Skrzatek some time later.

I assume that it was used to describe a family origins or a possessive type of adjective. Can anyone give me some insight?
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:02 am      Post subject: Re: "owski" suffix
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Bugatti99 wrote:
My mother's family surname from Stara Zbelutka (Kielce) is Skrzatek however the various acts show the parents in this town as Skrzatkowa, Skrzatka, Skrzatkow... but the children are still named Skrzatek in the same act.


Bugatti,

In Polish, we have declensions (Skrzatek, Skrzatka, Skrzatkowi, ze Skrzatkiem, etc), which you can see in some records, and we have also suffixes to give familial relation.

Skrzatkowa: suffix -owa, wife of Skrzatek
Skrzatka: daughter of Skrzatek
Skrzatkow: this is probably in a sentence like "corka Anny i Jana malzonkow Skrzatkow", suffix -ow is used to give a name of spouses in plural (he and she).

In short, for all cases, the name is Skrzatek, (nominal case in declension), anything else is other case of declension or a suffix used to indicate familial relation.

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The only time I have seen Skrzatkowski used is when my great grandpa immigrated here, his first and second born children all were born with the name Szatkowski on their birth record, even though documents parallel to this time shows he is using the name Skrzatek, and they were legally changed to Skrzatek some time later.


I have no difficulty to imagine that outside of Poland the name Skrzatek is just impossible to spell (for a Frenchman to have 4 consons in a row is beyond imagination, 3 is already too much - like in my first name).
Therefore all these ear-simplifications, -ski, etc. Your ancestors were right to make a legal change back to the original name.

Best,
Elzbieta
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Bugatti99



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:43 am      Post subject:
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Elzbieta,

Great information! Thank you I appreciate the explanation of the declensions. Any thought on the "Skrzatekowski" name I find in Kunow (I am sure it is in other places) the same time as Skrzatek? Is this another way to say it is of "the family Skrzatek"? I do not like to assume, but as the root is still Skrzatek would this be just a surname form that was recorded this way at the time? I know it may be impossible to tell but it is a head scratcher. Thanks again!
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:12 pm      Post subject:
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Hello,
For Skrzatek family name, we could say "rodzina Skrzatków" (The family of Skrzatki) which is quite cute. For Skrzatkowski name, we could say "rodzina Skrzatkowskich" (the family of Skrzatkowscy). I imagine one would call family of Skrzatekowscy but the difference to Skrzatkowscy is in polish grammar.

In addition to what Elżbieta already wrote, i will note some on -ski -cki suffix. These suffixes (and some others) in old Poland were reserved for names of noble families. Later in time, some people changed their usual names to -cki or -ski endings when being promoted eg in administrative work position, other wanted just feel better with such kind of name, some other people even faked their origins papers to act like noble. That way, in today Poland, many people have such suffixes, having at the same time nothing in common with nobles. I imagine, Your ancestors felt social advancement coming to other coutry, maybe because of that they changed they surname. If other people changed their names to -ski ending even in Poland at that time, then well, maybe it was just popular habit at that time in that area. Smile
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Bugatti99



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Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:12 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you Sirdan,

You bring up another point: But first I would have to think then that the Skrzatekowski and Skrzatek name in this same small village would be the same family? I just cannot imagine towns this small having these names like this and it being coincidence. I would understand if it was a more common name, but these names only seem to orbit around the Cracow area.

You mentioned in your comment something I saw the other night. The town of Skrzatki and a person from this town. My assumption (predicated on limited information at this time) is that the small amount of surnames that the Skrzatek family has in Poland, and that it is concentrated as I mentioned above, that its local origins derived more from the elf/imp word Skzrat? Perhaps more of a local legend in the area. But the place name is interesting to me. My Italian surname is a place name and the difference between the town I found my family settling in and the town the place name originated 600 years prior was 540 km. I see a stark difference in the research between these two places, but what I know from Italy as that people did not really stay still. In my family case we were merchants from Florence, but others travelled due to war, taxation, sickness, birth order etc... Any thoughts on Skrzatki? I know it my be impossible to tell, but it never hurts to ask.

Thank you so much for the information.
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:22 pm      Post subject:
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Unfortunately, there is no information on internet about Skrzatki. All i know this village is somehow part of Godziesze Wielkie, Skrzatki is new hamlet for this town. I can't tell which was first, village Skrzatki or the name. But i believe Skrzatek and Skrzatekowski might be really same family. Maybe one family got this hamlet in possesion or administration, and then they changed ther surname to -ski ending, who knows, one of possibility.
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Bugatti99



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:17 pm      Post subject:
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Sirdan,

Thank you for the comment. This is very interesting. There is obviously more work to be done or even really started to try to figure this out. Place name or more of a legend name like I thought: Skrzat? I really only see the name as it is today all concentrated in the Kielce area. So a place name could be possible as also a form of Skrzat. Hmmm....

I think the name Skrzatekowski and Skrzatek are the same as well. Different towns, different sides of the country I would think no, but a small town like this 200 years ago it has to be some sort of relation or a VERY big coincidence. I only think this as the surname is very rare and very concentrated.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Bugatti99



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:27 pm      Post subject:
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The name I have you make mention of above in the town where my Skrzatek ancestor was born is another name Skrzatekow. She was born in Radostov village parish of Shushsko. Strange entry to see indeed.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:44 pm      Post subject:
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Bugatti99 wrote:
The name I have you make mention of above in the town where my Skrzatek ancestor was born is another name Skrzatekow. She was born in Radostov village parish of Shushsko. Strange entry to see indeed.


Bugatti,

Geography checked:

Radostów
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radost%C3%B3w_%28wojew%C3%B3dztwo_%C5%9Bwi%C4%99tokrzyskie%29

Szumsko
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szumsko
and the parish
http://www.sandomierz.opoka.org.pl/strdiec_/parafie.php?p=200&d=20

Best,
Elzbieta
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Bugatti99



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:07 pm      Post subject:
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Ah yes a whole 5.3 km from Stara Zbelutka... Smile thanks. All of these different suffix surname variables are making me a little crazy... thank you for helping me with this.
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