Forum | PolishOrigins :: View topic - In search of GIELICZ descendants/relatives

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hannahblack26
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: In search of GIELICZ descendants/relatives - LADEK, Poland

First, I must apologize for my lack of Polish; I am an American university student in Pittsburgh, PA, and only recently confirmed my Polish roots.

I previously posted several months ago about my great-grandparents - Karol Blachowicz (1878-1949) and Urzula Gielicz (1880-1956). I cannot sufficiently pin down Karol's place of birth, but I have managed to find several members of Urzula's family who came to the United States between 1900-1907. They all appear to come from Ladek (near Kalisz, presumably - "Kaliski" is listed on a handful of passenger manifests), spelled LONDEK in the records.

I am hoping that there are descendants still in that area.

The family is listed as follows:

JOHN (Jan?) Gielicz - father.
POLA (Pauline?) Ralecka/Hanitsky - mother.

Their children:

KATERYNA (c. 1877)
JULIA (Julianna) (c. 1878)
URZULA (c. 1880)
ELEANOR (Lenora?) (c. 1881)
JULIAN (c. 1883)
LEON (c. 1887)

I also discovered two possible relations, perhaps cousins to my family; they also came from "Londek":

LUDWIG (c. 1873)
IGNATIUS (Ignacy?) (c. 1877), son of CAROL and MARY Gielicz.
Both are listed as tailors.

If anyone could provide some help in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you kindly.

[/i]

Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:37 am Post subject: Re: In search of GIELICZ descendants/relatives - LADEK, Pola

hannahblack26 wrote:

Hanna,

Let’s keep things in order.
Aga’s answer to question from Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:17 pm
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=20164

I am trying to figure out geography answers to your two statements/questions, A and B below.

Best,
Elzbieta

QUESTIONS:
A:
Ursula) was from Kalisz, which if my research is correct was under Prussian or Austrian control, whereas the Blachowicz family member was from Krasice or Krasicze, which was under Russian control.
B.
Urzula's family who came to the United States between 1900-1907. They all appear to come from Ladek (near Kalisz, presumably - "Kaliski" is listed on a handful of passenger manifests), spelled LONDEK in the records.

ANSWERS:
1.
Kalisz was under the Prussian partition, until the Congress Poland.
http://www.kalisz.info/kalisz-zarzad-pruski.html
Kalisz and Czestochowa were both part to Congress Poland, Russian occupation. No Austria here. See PARTITIONS.

Two Lądek north of Kalisz:
Lądek, county Konin, 50 km from Kalisz
Lądek, county Słupca, 80 km from Kalisz (and 30 km from its homonym in county Konin).
I think the first one is “yours”, called Kaliski on the manifest. See TWO Lądek.

2.
Błachowicz from „Krasice or Krasicze”. Either near Czestochowa, which was part to Kalisz governorate under Congress Poland, Russian occupation (closer to Urszula from Lądek, county Konin), or in Galicia, Austrian partition:
Krasiczyn, county Tarnobrzeg, Galicia, Austria
Krasiczyn and Krasice, county Przemyśl, Galicia, Austria
See DISTRIBUTION and CORRELATION.

DOCUMENTED SEARCH:

TWO Lądek north of Kalisz (with http://mapa.szukacz.pl/ )
(2) wieś
Lądek
siedziba gminy
756 osób
woj. wielkopolskie
pow. słupecki
gmina Lądek
==
(3) wieś
Lądek
272 osoby
woj. wielkopolskie
pow. koniński
gmina Grodziec
==

PARTITIONS of Poland in 2 minutes sharp:
Geography, partitions, and Cyrillic in Congress Poland.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozbiory_Polski
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rzeczpospolitapodrozb.png
Congress Poland, when after 1867, civil vital records (BMD – birth, marriage, death) started to be written in Cyrillic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_division_of_Congress_Poland#1867
and an old map
http://acienciala.faculty.ku.edu/hist557/lect5b_files/scanpolandmap.jpg

DISTRIBUTION of Błachowicz:
The distribution of Błachowicz in today Poland, information posted to you by Aga, one year ago
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=20164
indicates two places where that name is most popular:
Mielec – near Tarnobrzeg
Częstochowa

CORRELATION of the distribution of Błachowicz with possible „Krasice or Krasicze”:
==
Częstochowa area, Kalisz Governorate in 1867, Congress Poland:
(1) wieś
Krasice
756 osób
woj. śląskie
pow. częstochowski
gmina Mstów
==
Tarnobrzeg area, voievodship podkarpackie today: Austrian partition
(4) część wsi
Krasiczyn
woj. podkarpackie
pow. tarnobrzeski
gmina Baranów Sandomierski
==
Przemyśl area: voievodship podkarpackie today: Austrian partition
(2) wieś
Krasiczyn
siedziba gminy
427 osób
woj. podkarpackie
pow. przemyski
gmina Krasiczyn
==
(3) wieś
Krasice
81 osób
woj. podkarpackie
pow. przemyski
gmina Krasiczyn
==

dnowicki
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am Post subject:

Hannah,

There is no need to apologize for lack of Polish. Many who post on this forum are in the same boat.

I believe that the Ladek you want is the one nearer to Slupca. It was a village which was the site of a parish. On the BASIA site (www.basia.famula.pl) the surname Gielicz appears very frequently in that village. Unfortunately, indexed records on that site for Ladek end in the 1860s, which is not unusual for places in the Russian Partition since after 1868 the records were required to be kept in Russian and sometimes the volunteers who do the indexing are not comfortable reading Cyrillic and thus the indexing stops at that point. It does not appear that scans of records are available online for the parish of Ladek for dates after 1867. However, that does not mean that your search is over. LDS films of records you would need to find the birth of Urszula can be rented. To find a list of the films for Ladek you need to go to the Family Search (LDS) site (www.familysearch.org) and search the catalog. There you will find two sets of filmed records ---one the ecclesiastical records which will be in Latin and the other is the civil transcripts which will be in Russian for the years you need. You don't want to jump ahead to the online records until after you have made the connection to your great grandmother Urszula/Ursula. Her birth record should provide you with the necessary information to trace her parents and hopefully grandparents, etc. My recommendation would be that you start with the ecclesiastical records despite the fact that they usually contain less info than the civil transcripts because by beginning with them you'll not have to deal with a different alphabet. Once you've found the records you need in that set it should be easier for you to locate the civil transcript knowing that you've found the corect person.

Despite what I just said about not jumping ahead without making the methodical necessary connections, the attached post for the birth of Karol Gielicz fits into the time frame of possibly being the father of Ignacy/Ignatius. The other attachment is from BASIA and shows the location of Ladek as well as the fact that it is the #1 place on that site where the surname Gielicz is found.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:18 am Post subject:

dnowicki wrote:

... the attached post for the birth of Karol Gielicz fits into the time frame of possibly being the father of Ignacy/Ignatius. The other attachment is from BASIA and shows the location of Ladek as well as the fact that it is the #1 place on that site where the surname Gielicz is found.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

Hannah,

Here is birth record of Karol Gielicz.

Best,
Elzbieta
==

==PO252:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/karol_111.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: / 27 October / 8 November / - 8 November 1836, at 9 am, in Lądek
FATHER: Józef Gielicz, farmer, 36 years old
MOTHER: Marcyanna born Król, 26 years old, his wife, jointly residing at [house] number 30, [in Lądek]
KTO: Karol Gielicz, born in Lądek, on the day / 20 October / 1 November / - 1 November 1836, at 11 pm
WITNESSES: Nepomucen Knolinski, innkeeper, 32 years old, and Walenty Hilgier, weaver of linen, 52 years old, all from Lądek
GODPARENTS: Nepomucen Knolinski and Anna born Koch, spouse Kazubska from Lądek

Lądek 82 [county Słupca, 80 km from Kalisz]
Dzialo sie w Lądku dnia /27 pazdziernika/8 listopada/ 1836 roku, o godzinie 9 rano. Stawil sie Józef Gielicz, rolnik lat 36, w obecnosci Nepomucena Knolinskiego, szynkarza lat 32, i Walentego Hilgiera, płóciennika, lat 52 liczacych, wszyscy z Lądka, i okazal nam dziecie plci meskiej, urodzone tu w Lądku, dnia /20 pazdziernika/ 1 listopada/ roku biezacego o godzinie 11 w nocy, z jego malzonki Marcyanny z Krolów, lat 26 majacej, wspolnie pod numerem 30 zamieszkalej. Wszyscy Katolicy. Dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym przez nas dzis odbytym nadane zostalo imie Karol, a chrzestnemi jego rodzicami byli wyzej wyrazony Nepomucen Knolinski i Anna z Kochów Kazubska z Lądka. Akt ten stawajacemu i swiadkom przeczytany, przez stawajacego ojca i pierwszego swiadka podpisany, gdyz drugi swiadek pisac nie umie.
X. Karol Woszynski, proboszcz Lądkowski
Signatures:
J. Gielich
Nepomucen Knolinski

Translated:

It happened in Lądek on the day / 27 October / 8 November / 1836, at 9 am. Appeared in Józef Gielicz, farmer, 36 years old, in the presence of Nepomucen Knolinski, innkeeper, 32 years old, and Walenty Hilgier, weaver of linen, 52 years old, all from Lądek, and presented us a male child born here in Lądek, on the day / 20 October / 1 November / current year at 11 o'clock at night, with his wife Marcyanna born Król, 26 years old, jointly residing at [house] number 30. All Catholics. On the holy baptism held by us today the child has been given the name Karol, and his godparents were the above mentioned Nepomucen Knolinski and Anna born Koch, spouse Kazubska from Lądek. This act was read to the present and witnesses, by the appearing father and the first witness signed, because the second witness does not know how to write.
Priest Karol Woszynski, pastor in Lądek
Signatures:
J. Gielich
Nepomucen Knolinski

==

hannahblack26
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:57 am Post subject:

Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

(I apologize - I'm speechless with joy.)

This is amazing!

Yes, you're quite right, I realized after I posted that I should have mentioned Slupca, as a US naturalization record lists Julia Gielicz and her husband, Tomasz Kobiela (apparently from a prominent family), as being from Slupca.

What's interesting, too, is that when Julia Gielicz came to the United States, on the passenger manifest under the "Person You Know" part is the name Maryanna Hilgier. It's quite possible there's a connection.

I am guessing, only guessing, that Karol Gielicz is a brother to Jan Gielicz, my great-great-grandfather - due to the surname, the location, and the fact that Ignatius Gielicz was buried in the same cemetery in the US that the other Gielicz members were.

Thank you all SO much for replying & translating & giving me information to further my search!!! I hope to find descendants there. We have only two photographs of Urzula (who went by Ursula here), and nothing else. Her children (my grandfather and grand-aunt) were very secretive people and told little to nothing; so I have spent the past year just researching.

hannahblack26
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:33 am Post subject:

I found a site called the Poznan Project and located a Carolus Gielicz, m. 1871 to widow Marianna Domagalska. They fit in the timeline; Carolus was 34 (making his birthdate c. 1837, which ties in to Elzbieta's record) and Marianna was 25. However, they were married in Skarboszewo, not Slupca/Ladek.

I also found the marriage record of Jozef & Marcyanna Gielicz, married 1832 in Ladek. They had two sons - Karol (1836) and Jan (1839). Could be a possibility, though if this Jan Gielicz was my Jan Gielicz, he'd be in his late thirties when he had children (my own father was 39, my mother 37, but it seems odd for the time period in Poland).

Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject:

hannahblack26 wrote:

Skarboszewo is very close to Słupca, circa 2 miles. Lądek to Skarbuszowo or Lądek to Słupca is the same distance.
I would consider all that nearby places.

Best,
Elzbieta

hannahblack26
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject:

Thank you, Elzbieta (or Mrs. Porteneuve if you'd prefer) - it's very greatly appreciated. Is there a way to locate the village church the Gielicz child or children were baptized in, to see if it is still there? Your translations and additional information have been invaluable.

I also found the separate birth records of four children of Jan Gielicz, Karol Gielicz's brother.

1) Jan Albert born/died 1866 at 1 month of age.
2) Jan Albert born 1866, died before 1868.
3) Kataryzna born 1866
4) Jan Albert born 1868

The children as far as I can tell, my understanding of Polish practically nonexistent, have been listed in four distinct, separate birth records. Is there a possibility Jan Gielicz and his wife had twins? I know that it's entirely possible for a woman to have two children separately in one year (this happened to my grandmother - twice!), but the name "Jan Albert" was clearly one Jan and his wife wanted.

I found the records on BaSIA, but I am unable to download the images to my computer.

dnowicki
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject:

Hannah & Elzbieta,

There is a 1862 marriage on the Poznan Project site which is a very possible match for Jan Nepomucen born in 1839 to Paulina Jasinska in Slupca. Then there are several birth and death records for children of Nepomucen Gielicz and Paulina Janicka in Ladek in the following years. Jan Nepomucen's age in the records matches with an 1839 birthday and Paulina's age matches in the Ladek records for a bride who was 19 in 1862. A woman who was 19 in 1862 would still be in her childbearing years (although getting close to the end of those years) in the 1880s.
Hannah, It is no biggie that one marriage took place in Skarbuszewo and the other in Slupca. Your ancestors were Catholics and the rule was that Catholic marriages were supposed to take place in the parish of the bride. Evidently Marcyanna was from the parish of Skarbuszewo and Paulina was from the parish of Slupca. Also, the switching of the given name from Jan to Nepomucen is not a big deal. The saint's name he was given at baptism was Jan Nepomucen (usually spelled Nepomucyn) (John Nepomecene) and men with that name sometimes used either the name Jan or the name Nepomucen or switched back and forth between the two. Also it appears that Jozef became a widower and remarried in 1850 according to the BASIA index. There is also a record of his death in Ladek in 1869 at age 69.
Attached are a couple of scans and the Poznan Project index for the 1862 marriage. Just keep in mind that no matter how well all this seems to fit together you can't take it as fact until you find Ursula's birth record.

Hope you enjoy your search.

Dave

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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject:

Hannah, Dave,

Here are Wiktorya and Jan Nepomucen.

Best,
Elzbieta
NB. Hannah - Elzbieta is fine.
==

==PO252:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/wiktoria_1863_350.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: 13 October 1863, at 6 pm, in the city of Lądek
FATHER: Nepomucen Gielicz, farmer? Residing here in Ladek, 24 years old
MOTHER: Pauline born Janicka, 20 years old, his wife
KTO: Wiktorya Gielich, born 11 October 1863, 2 pm, in Ladek
WITNESSES: Pawel Turmanski, farmer, 34 years old, and Stanislaw Ryszkiewicz, miller, 51 years old, residing here in Ladek
GODPARENTS: Pawel Turmanski and Franciszka Ryszkiewicz from Lądek

99 Lądek Wiktorya
Dzialo sie w miescie Lądek dnia 13 pazdziernika 1863 roku o godzinie 6 na wieczor. Stawil sie Niepomucen Gielicz, rolnik? tu w Lądku zamieszkaly, lat 24 majacy, w obecnosci Pawla Turmanskiego, rolnika, lat 34, tudziez Stanislawa Ryszkiewicza, mlynarza, lat 51 majacych, tu w Lądku zamieszkalych, i okazal nam dziecie plci zenskiej urodzone tu w Lądku dnia 11 miesiaca i roku biezacych, o godzinie 2 z poludnia, z jego malzonki Pauliny z Janickich, lat 20 majacej. Dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym w dniu dzisiejszym odbytym nadane zostalo imie Wiktorya a rodzicami jego chrzestnemi byli wyzej wspomniany Pawel Turmanski i Franciszka Ryszkiewicz z Lądka. Akt ten stawajacym i swiadkom przeczytany, przez nas i stawajacego ojca podpisany zostal, gdyz swiadkowie pisac nie umieja.
X. (illegible)

Translated:

It happened in the city of Ladek on 13 October 1863, at 6 o’clock in the evening. Appeared in Nepomucen Gielicz, farmer? Residing here in Ladek, 24 years old, in the presence of Pawel Turmanski, farmer, 34 years old, and Stanislaw Ryszkiewicz, miller, 51 years old, residing here in Ladek, and presented us a female child born here in Ladek, on the day 11 of the current month and year, at 2 pm, with his wife Pauline born Janicka, 20 years old. On the holy baptism held today the child has been given the name Wiktorya and his godparents were mentioned above Pawel Turmanski and Franciszka Ryszkiewicz from Lądek. This act was read to the present and witnesses, by us and present father was signed, because witnesses do not know how to write.

==PO252:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/jan_nepomucen_160.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: / 7/19 / - 19 May 1839, at 12 o’clock noon, in Lądek
FATHER: Jozef Gielicz, farmer in Lądek, 38 years old
MOTHER: Marcyanna born Król, 27 years old, his wife
KTO: Jan Nepomucen Gielicz, born on the day / 3 / 15 / - 15 May 1839, 2 pm, in Lądek
WITNESSES: Franciszek Jarocki, [okupnik=peasant paying fees instead of serfdom] from Wyszyny, 50 years old, and Lukasz Kidaszeski, furrier from Lądek, 34 years old
GODPARENTS: Franciszek Jarocki and Eleonora born Jogulska, spouse Kidaszeska from Lądek

Lądek N 39
Dzialo sie w Lądku dnia /7/19/ maja 1839 roku, o godzinie 12 w poludnie. Stawil sie Jozef Gielicz, rolnik w Lądku, lat 38, w obecnosci Franciszka Jarockiego, okupnika z Wyszyny, lat 50, i Lukasza Kidaszeskiego, kusnierza z Lądka, lat 34 liczacych, i okazal nam dziecie plci meskiej urodzone tu w Lądku, dnia /3/15/ maja roku biezacego o godzinie drugiej po poludniu, z jego malzonki Marcyanny z Krolow, lat 27 majacej, wspolnie pod numerem 38 zamieszkalej. Wszyscy Katolicy. Dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym przez nas dzis odbytym nadane zostalo imie Jan Nepomucen, a chrzestnemi jego rodzicami byli wyzej wyrazony Franciszek Jarocki i Eleonora z Jogulskich Kidaszeska z Lądka. Akt ten stawajacemu i swiadkom przeczytany, przez stawajacego ojca i pierwszego swiadka tylko podpisany, gdyz drugi swiadek pisac nie umie.
X. Karol Woszynski, proboszcz Lądkowski
Signatures:
J. Gielicz
F. Jarocki

Translated:

It happened in Lądek, on the day / 7/19 / May 1839, at 12 o’clock noon. Appeared in Jozef Gielicz, farmer in Lądek, 38 years old, in the presence of Franciszek Jarocki, [okupnik=peasant paying fees instead of serfdom] from Wyszyny, 50 years old, and Lukasz Kidaszeski, furrier from Lądek, 34 years old, and presented us a male child born here in Lądek, on the day / 3 / 15 / May of the current year at 2 pm, with his wife Marcyanna born Król, 27 years old, jointly residing at [house] number 38. All Catholics. On the holy baptism held by us today the child has been given the name Jan Nepomucen, and his godparents were the above mentioned Franciszek Jarocki and Eleonora born Jogulska, spouse Kidaszeska from Lądek. This act was read to the present and witnesses, by the appearing father and the first witness signed, because the second witness does not know how to write.
Priest Karol Woszynski, pastor in Lądek
Signatures:
J. Gielicz
F. Jarocki

==

hannahblack26
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:13 pm Post subject:

Just updating everyone who responded - I ordered microfilm records from LDS, as Dave suggested, and should receive them within the next few weeks or so. I sincerely hope Urzula is in there somewhere, or at least her confirmed siblings are; to find them is to find her.

I've also begun to search for her husband Karol Blachowicz's birth record. It doesn't appear that the church records from Krasice in the Silesian province are available from LDS, but the ones from Krasice in Rzeszow are. I might try there first - just in case. Does anyone know if they're available online, like the Gielicz records were on baSIA?

hannahblack26
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject:

Updating everyone again - thanks to the responses, I discovered not only my great-grandmother's village (Ladek, as stated), but also my great-grandfather's village - he was born in Krasice, in Silesia, near Czestochowa! That had originally been my hunch, due to my great-grandfather's familiarity with machinery; the relatives who knew him said he was extremely good with his hands, with craftmanship, which I attributed to perhaps growing up in an industrialized region. I located the Silesian records and they have provided me with information 7 generations back!

So - just - thank you all, truly. This means so much to me. I appreciate it so much.

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