echristopherclark
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Replies: 8
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:15 am
Post subject: Where to look next - Niemczyk and Gurska from Rudnik
My great-grandparents were Bronislaw Niemczyk (12 Feb 1885 - 29 May 1923) and Amelia/Emilia Gurska (1889 - 19 Mar 1927).
Amelia/Emilia may have come from Rudnik, based on a U.S. immigration record I found for someone of about the right age. She sometimes gave Lithuania as her country of origin on vital records in the U.S.
I have no information on where Bronislaw came from, other than 'Poland' or, occasionally, 'Russia.'
According to their marriage record, Bronislaw's parents were Anthony Niemczyk and Julie Huzalkowska. I've been told Julie's name is misspelled on that record, but have not determined what it's meant to be. Amelia/Emilia's parents were listed on that same record as Casimir Gurska and Josephine Filipowicz.
I've attached detail images of the two records referenced above.
I have no idea where to go next. Any help would be most appreciated.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2958
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:23 pm
Post subject: Where to look next
Hi,
I would recommend getting a copy of the marriage record from the parish church---not a certificate, but a photocopy/scan of the actual entry in the marriage register. The record you posted is the civil record of the marriage license and the return by the priest who witnessed the marriage. Church marriage records often contain information about where the couple was born and baptized. The record you posted did provide a valuable clue for locating the church marriage record by listing the address of the priest who blessed the marriage. His address corresponded to that of the rectory of St. Hedwig Church in Cambridge, MA. (The address of the church building was 99 Otis Street and the rectory was located at 100 Otis St.) The parish has been closed but the sacramental records are housed in the archives of the Archdiocese of Boston. Attached is the contact info for the archives and a listing of the records they hold. If things go well, those records should lead you to where to research in Poland. Another possible source of that info would be Bronislaw's naturalization papers, if he was naturalized. Since he doesn't appear in the naturalization index for Massachusetts perhaps he died before he was able to become naturalized.
I don't think that the passenger list you posted is that of your great grandmother because the father listed there (Andrzej) is not the name of her father Kazimierz.
Wishing you success in your research,
Dave
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echristopherclark
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Replies: 8
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:20 pm
Post subject:
Thank you so much for the tips. I was finally able to get to the Archdiocese today and snapped this photo of the record. I'm still trying to decipher everything it's telling me, so any help would be appreciated.
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:01 pm
Post subject:
| echristopherclark wrote: | | Thank you so much for the tips. I was finally able to get to the Archdiocese today and snapped this photo of the record. I'm still trying to decipher everything it's telling me, so any help would be appreciated. |
He was baptized in 1887 in All Saints parish, in Warsaw. Here is the link for the original records. No index, so you have to look one by one. Written in russian, but you can see the names in polish in the body of the record.
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryki.php?op=kt&ar=8&zs=9264d&sy=120&kt=1
She was from Wozniany, Wilno, Lithuania.
Dave will surely provide you a full translation.
Gilberto
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 323
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:54 pm
Post subject:
echristopherclark~ I read Bronislaw's mother as Julia Strzałkowska. If you do a Google search of Strzałkowska (the feminine version of Strzałkowski) you'll see it is a valid Polish surname. If you search http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/ you'll see it is fairly common (2371 occurances) and the place with the highest concentration of this surname is Warsaw (262). ~PL
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2958
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:21 pm
Post subject: Translation of Niemczyk & Gurska Marriage Record
Hi,
I'm glad to see that you were able to get a copy of the actual marriage entry. It does give you clues about where to look for records of your great grandparents in Europe. The priest almost certainly did not see copies of their baptismal certificates since he did not enter the exact dates of their baptisms. He most likely accepted their word about the years as accurate. Julia's maiden name is spelled as PL posted. There are a lot of individuals with that surname baptized in that parish in Warsaw. Elzbieta can probably provide you with details regarding the parish in Warsaw since she is very familiar with the city. Your g. grandmother was from Lithuania and the name of the parish where she was baptized is given with the Polish spelling. There is a slight, but not significant, variation in the spelling of her maiden name. Instead of u the second letter is o with a diacritical mark. Those two letters in Polish have a very similar sound which often makes them difficult to distinguish when heard. At the time of her birth that parish was not part of the Congress Kingdom of Poland but was in the Gubierna of Wilno in the Russian Empire. After WWI until WWII it was part of the Second Polish Republic and presently it is part of Lithuania. Perhaps someone familiar with Lithuanian research can give you some hints. A lot of what is in the certificate simply deals with legalities of Catholic marriages and probably will not be of any help to you. But here is the translation of the record.
Hope this helps your research.
Dave
Left Column: Date of Wedding: February 18, 1912
Body of Entry: I, the undersigned, having been invited and called to this duty, constrained by neither force nor grave fear, the three announcements of the banns having been promulgated, and having had the mutual consent of those present through words, joined in matrimony Bronislaw Niemczyk from Cambridge, the son of Antoni (Niemczyk) and of Julia (nee) Strzalkowska (diacritical mark on l), baptized in the parish of All Saints in Warsaw in the diocese and gubierna of Warsaw on the (blank) day of the (blank) month of the year 1887, whose free status (for marriage) was sufficiently demonstrated, and Emilia Gorska (diacritical mark on o) from the same place (i.e. Cambridge), the daughter of Kazimierz (Gorski) and of Jozefa (nee) Filipowicz, baptized in the parish of Wozniany, diocese and gubierna of Wilno, on the (blank) day of the (blank) month of the year 1889, residing in this parish (i.e. St. Hedwig) for (blank) months or (blank) years, in the presence of the witnesses* Adam Konopka (age) 25 and Boleslaw Losnowski (age) 48.
I sent notice of this marriage to the rectors of the churches in which the above named spouses were baptized.
Rev. H(?) Zmijewski, Pastor (of St. Hedwig)
(or) a (priest) delegated by the pastor (or) bishop (ordinary of the place) of the bride.**
Notes: * Two witnesses along with the priest were required for q valid marriage. At that time the custom was that both witnesses were men. Today those witnesses would be the best man and the maid/matron of honor.
**The official designation of the bishop of a diocese is "the ordinary of the place."
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:02 am
Post subject:
I think I found it! Yesterday I looked at births in 1885 and 1887 and could not find him. This morning I found the indexes for these years and still could not find him. Then I thought "what if Julia was a single mother at his birth?".
Then I looked for Strzalkowski surname in the index and there it was Bronislaw, in 1885, in All Saints parish. Here is the link to image of the original record #579: http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=1219d&sy=1885a&kt=1&plik=0579-0582.jpg#zoom=2.25&x=539&y=626
Will now check 1887 to see if he was baptized in that year.
Gilberto
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echristopherclark
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Replies: 8
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:32 am
Post subject:
Thanks so much for all this help. It is worth noting that on his WW1 draft card, Bronislaw gave his birth date as 12 Feb 1885. That's where I got the date listed in my initial post.
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:40 am
Post subject:
| Magroski49 wrote: | I think I found it! Yesterday I looked at births in 1885 and 1887 and could not find him. This morning I found the indexes for these years and still could not find him. Then I thought "what if Julia was a single mother at his birth?".
Then I looked for Strzalkowski surname in the index and there it was Bronislaw, in 1885, in All Saints parish. Here is the link to image of the original record #579: http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=1219d&sy=1885a&kt=1&plik=0579-0582.jpg#zoom=2.25&x=539&y=626
Will now check 1887 to see if he was baptized in that year.
Gilberto |
Echristopherclark,
Gilberto,
Here is the Cyrillic record.
Panska, Chmielna - the very center of Warsaw, I am adding a little map.
Best,
Elzbieta
==
==PO260Cyr:
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=1219d&sy=1885a&kt=1&plik=0579-0582.jpg#zoom=2.25&x=539&y=626
DATE-of-ACT: /7/19/ - 19 April 1885 6 pm, parish All Saints, Warszawa
MIDWIFE: Jozefa Skupinska, midwife, 30 years old, residing in Warszawa, Panska Street number 1705? letter i
MOTHER: Julia Strzalkowska, unmarried, 26 years old
KTO: Bronislaw Strzalkowski, born /30 January /11 February/ - 11 February 1885, 3 am, in Warszawa, Chmielna Street 1549, letter ae/x
WITNESSES: Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski, Petersburg’s agent and Henryk Lupinski, merchant, both completely unrelated? residing in Petersburg and staying in Warszawa
579
It happened in Warszawa in the office of the parish All Saints /7/19/ April 1885 6 pm. Appeared in Jozefa Skupinska, midwife, 30 years old, residing in Warszawa, Panska Street number 1705? letter i, and in the consciousness of Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski, Petersburg’s agent and Henryk Lupinski, merchant, both completely unrelated? residing in Petersburg and staying in Warszawa and presented us a male child, declaring he was born in Warszawa, Chmielna Street 1549, letter ae/x on /30 January /11 February/ current year 3 am, with Julia Strzalkowska, unmarried, 26 years old. On the holy baptism held today the child has been given the name Bronislaw, and his godparents were Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski and Lucyna Strzalkowska. This act …
Signatures:
Bronislaw Antonowicz Radlowski (in Cyrillic) [NOTE: patronymic name, Bronislaw Radlowski, son of Antoni]
Henryk Lupinski
==
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echristopherclark
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Replies: 8
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:38 pm
Post subject:
I am overwhelmed by your generosity, all of you.
One additional bit of information that may be relevant: in my research in United States-based records, I have determined that Bronislaw may have had a brother or half-brother named Frank Niemczyk born on our about 3 Dec 1894. I wonder if finding his birth record might help clear things up about Bronislaw. I have no record indicating where he might have been baptized, but now that we know where Bronislaw was born/baptized there might be more of a chance of finding Frank and proving that connection.
Any thoughts there?
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2958
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:13 pm
Post subject:
E Christopher, Elzbieta & Gilberto,
If Julia was born in Warsaw in 1859, the attached is a possible birth record. It is from a different parish (sw. Jan/St. John) but in 26 years people do move around. This child was given two baptismal names (Julia & Eufrozyna), but individuals with two given names often only regularly used one in later life. Again, only the marriage record will prove or eliminate it.
Dave
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:30 pm
Post subject:
Gilberto,
Christopher,
Here is Antoni Niemczyk.
Best,
Elzbieta
==
==PO260:
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/72/160/0/-/31/skan/full/OPJ9jQN1FqBsnQlqqdupqw
DATE-of-ACT: 25 November 1860, at 7 pm, in Warszawa
FATHER: Filip Niemczyk, carpenter, 48 years old
MOTHER: Antonina Łukasiewicz, unmarried, staying with her family
KTO: Antoni Niemczyk born 31 October 1860, 5 am, in Warszawa Dluga Street at number 543
WITNESSES: Jozef Kurtz, carpenter, 38 years old, and Jan Kasia, stucco, 34 years old, residing in Warszawa
GODPARENTS: Jozef Kurtz and Julianna Lovi
RECOGNITION-of-the-CHILD: The present Niemczyk recognises this child is his own, acknowledges and accepts, declaring that he is begotten of him and the said Łukasiewicz
913
Dzialo sie w miescie Warszawie dnia 25 listopada 1860 roku o godzinie 7 wieczorem. Stawil sie Filip Niemczyk, stolarz, lat 48 liczacy, w obecnosci Jozefa Kurtz, stolarza lat 38 i Jana Kasi, sztukatora lat 34 majacych, w Warszawie zamieszkalych, i okazal nam dziecie plci meskiej urodzone tu w Warszawie przy ulicy Dlugiej pod liczba 543, dnia 31 pazdziernika roku biezacego, o godzinie 5 rano, z Antoniny Łukasiewicz, niezameznej, przy familii zostajacej. Dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym odbytym w dniu dzisiejszym nadane zostalo imie Antoni, a rodzicami jego chrzestnemi byli wyzej wymieniony Jozef Kurtz i Julianna Lovi. Dziecie to stawajacy Niemczyk za swoje wlasne przyznaje i przyjmuje, oswiadczajac iz jest z niego i rzeczonej Łukasiewicz splodzone. Akt ten stawajacemu i swiadkom przeczytany, przez nas, ojca i swiadka pierwszego podpisany zostal, drugi oswiadczyl ze pisac nie umie.
Signatures:
Filip Niemczyk
Jozef Kurtz
Ksiadz Apolinary Grochowski, wikaryusz parafii Panny Maryi
Translated:
It happened in the city of Warszawa, on 25 November 1860, at 7 pm. Appeared in Filip Niemczyk, carpenter, 48 years old, in the presence of Jozef Kurtz, carpenter, 38 years old, and Jan Kasia, stucco, 34 years old, residing in Warszawa, and presented us a male child born here in Warszawa Dluga Street at number 543, on 31 October of the current year, at 5 am, with Antonina Łukasiewicz, unmarried, staying with her family. On the holy baptism held today the child was given the name Antoni, and his godparents were the above mentioned Jozef Kurtz and Julianna Lovi. The present Niemczyk recognises this child is his own, acknowledges and accepts, declaring that he is begotten of him and the said Łukasiewicz. This act was read to the present and witnesses, by ourselves, the father and the first witness was signed, the second declared he does not know how to write.
Signatures:
Filip Niemczyk
Jozef Kurtz
Priest Apolinary Grochowski, vicar of the parish Virgin Mary
==
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm
Post subject:
| dnowicki wrote: | E Christopher, Elzbieta & Gilberto,
If Julia was born in Warsaw in 1859, the attached is a possible birth record. It is from a different parish (sw. Jan/St. John) but in 26 years people do move around. This child was given two baptismal names (Julia & Eufrozyna), but individuals with two given names often only regularly used one in later life. Again, only the marriage record will prove or eliminate it.
Dave |
Dave,
Christopher,
Gilberto,
Here is Julia Eufrozyna. I note it is parish św. Jan Chrzciciel, Stare Miasto (Old Town, tiny streets, near the castle). Kazimierz Strzalkowski lived at Sowia Street, very close to the church.
ul. Świętojańska 8
Best,
Elzbieta
==
==PO260:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/julia_1859_553.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: 24 January 1859, at 5:30 pm, in Warszawa
FATHER: Kazimierz Strzalkowski, manor’s servant, 29 years old, residing in Warszawa on Sowia Street under number 2663
MOTHER: Jozefa born Supłatowicz, 33 years old, his wife
KTO: Julia Eufrozyna Strzalkowska, born 7 January 1859, 11 pm, in Warszawa, Sowia Street under number 2663
WITNESSES: Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz, janitor at Directorate of Land Credit Society, and Dominik Kozlowski, manor’s servant, both of legal age, residing in Warszawa
GODPARENTS: Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz and Jozefa Słodzinska
73
Dzialo sie w Warszawie dnia 24 miesiaca stycznia 1859 roku o godzinie w pol do szostej wieczorem. Stawil sie Kazimierz Strzalkowski, dworski, liczacy lat 29, w Warszawie przy ulicy Sowiej pod liczba 2663 zamieszkaly, w obecnosci Wojciecha Zbrożkiewicz, woznego Dyrekcji Towarzystwa Kredytowego Ziemskiego, tudziez Dominika Kozlowskiego, dworskiego, pelnoletnich, w Warszawie zamieszkalych, i okazal nam dziecie plci zenskiej urodzone w Warszawie w mieszkaniu jego na dniu 7 miesiaca i roku biezacych, o godzinie 11 w nocy, z jego malzonki Jozefy z Supłatowiczow, lat 33 majacej. dziecieciu temu na chrzcie swietym odbytym w dniu dzisiejszym nadane zostaly imiona Julia Eufrozyna, a rodzicami jego chrzestnymi byli Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz z Jozefa Słodzinska. Spoznienie aktu nastapilo z powodu zatrudnienia ojca. Niniejszy akt po odczytaniu podpisanym zostal przez nas wraz z swiadkiem pierwszym , ojciec zas i swiadek drugi oswiadczyli iz pisac nie umieja.
Signatures:
Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz
X. Kacper Wittmann, proboszcz i urzednik Stanu Cywilnego
Translated:
It happened in Warszawa on 24 January 1859, at half past five in the evening. Appeared in Kazimierz Strzalkowski, manor’s servant, 29 years old, residing in Warszawa on Sowia Street under number 2663, in the presence of Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz, janitor at Directorate of Land Credit Society, and Dominik Kozlowski, manor’s servant, both of legal age, residing in Warszawa, and presented us a female child born in Warszawa, in his apartment, on day 7 of the current month and year, at 11 o'clock at night, with his wife Jozefa born Supłatowicz, 33 years old. On the holy baptism held today the child was given the names of Julia Eufrozyna, and his godparents were Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz and Jozefa Słodzinska. The delay in this act is because of the father's job. This act, after being read, was signed by us, along with the first witness, the father and the second witness stated they do not know how to write.
Signatures:
Wojciech Zbrożkiewicz
Priest Kacper Wittmann, pastor and officer of Civil Vital Records Registry
==
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echristopherclark
Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Replies: 8
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:58 pm
Post subject:
A couple of questions occur to me as I read through the most recent information:
1. Is there any reason why they wouldn't have listed an age for Antonina Łukasiewicz, mother of the possible Antoni?
2. Is there a possibility Bronislaw was baptized for a second time, this time in 1887, and that's when he adopted the surname Niemczyk? Is that what you were looking for, Gilberto?
3. Are their marriage records for the area available? Are they available online?
I think that's it for now. Still processing all of the information you've all been good enough to provide.
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