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Mary Pate



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Replies: 59
Location: Overland Park, KS

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:41 pm      Post subject: Emigration from US Back to Poland
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My great-grandfather, Johann Dolinski, immigrated to the US from the old Poznan Province about 1870 through Castle Garden, NY. I have found the ship manifest. However, he only stayed here about 3 months and returned home to his wife and family. Through family, I've heard the story he worked as a fireman on the ship for his passage back. He came to America because his brother, Michael Dolinski was here.

However, now, I'm wondering if Michael, also returned back home. A Michael Dollinski is the best man at my gr-grandfather's marriage (after other wife died). It would seem normal for his brother to be his best man. I have not been able to find any site on line that has listings of ship passengers leaving the US. Are there any or where might one find them?
Thanks, Mary
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2595
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:55 pm      Post subject:
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Mary,
I don't know that records of individuals leaving America for Europe were even kept prior to the opening of Ellis Island and even then the focus was on immigrants arriving in the USA, not on people traveling from the USA to other countries. The US government issued passports for US citizens from the very infancy of the country but as far as I can tell the government was not interested in non citizens who left the country. It was only if someone immigrated to the USA, left and then sought to return to America that the government took notice. Also, Ellis Island was the first federal immigration station in the country. Prior to that time managing immigration was the responsibility of the individual states where the various ports of entry were located.

Whether the Michal Dolinski who was a witness at your great grandfather's second marriage was his brother or not is hard to say. When we look at marriage records from that time from our own perspective of "best man" and "maid/matron of honor" referring to the witnesses in those terms is anachronistic. If your great grandfather was Catholic, the requirement for marriage in the Catholic Church was that the parties express their consent (vows) in the presence of a priest and two witnesses. Church law did not specify the gender of the witnesses, however it seems the prevailing custom was to have two men as the witnesses. My maternal grandmother's family also came from what was called the Prov. of Posen and the witnesses for marriage in all the records I've seen back to the late 1600s list two males as the marriage witnesses. This was also true in the USA until about 1920. Occasionally some priests in Poland kind of broke the record mold by listing male witnesses by name and adding something like " together with his consort Mary" and sometimes they listed three or four couples by name as witnessing the marriage and them added "and many others" without listing names. I would say that in only a relatively small percentage of family marriage records I've seen were the witnesses brothers of the groom or of the bride and when that was the case the priest made note of the relationship.

Hope you can figure out the return trip of your great grandfather, but I don't think it will be quick and easy.

Dave
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Mary Pate



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Replies: 59
Location: Overland Park, KS

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:34 am      Post subject: Poles returning to Poland
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Dave,
Thanks for interesting and informative info. I suspected that. I've been looking a long time for gr-grandfather's return manifest home and, lately for gr-gr-uncle's possible return passage liist.
Seeing Michael as a witness in John's marriage rcd in 1886, the light bulb lit up that maybe, he, too, returned. My grandmother always said that her father had come to Cleveland. That, I've never proved. Can't prove wherre he went, so far. However, I'm wondeering if it wasn't Toledo. Want to check on that. If so, that was probably where Michael was. A gr-aunt arrived in Toledo first before coming to Leavenworth, KS, where she and subsequently, 3 of her siblings settled. That's another story how they knew to travel to leavenworth to work in the coal mines.

Yes, I have noted in all the early records, fathers and male witnesses are listed but seldeom a mother, as the parent, or female witnesses. However, later baptisms, I remember now, more male and female are listed. I'm researching both the old Poznan Province and eastern Galicia. Interesting comparison of records.

Thanks again,
Mary
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EANWhitson
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Replies: 370

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:59 pm      Post subject:
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I also have family that moved to Cleveland, but went back to Poland after about five years. I happened to find them on a census and saw that they even bought a home in the area and sold it a year later. I am assuming they left right after that as I can find no more records on them.

The passport thing interests me. Both my great aunt and grandmother were born here in the US, so they were US citizens. I did find a ship list that showed my aunt returning and that she was a US citizen. I haven't found anything on my grandmother other than she was in a 1940 census and 20 years old. Is there somewhere to check for US citizens coming back? A passport database or something?
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airhed



Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Replies: 4

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:12 pm      Post subject:
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Does anyone know if the Polish government maintained records of persons entering the country in the 1950's and 60's? My great grandmother returned to Poland after World War II, and supposedly died in Byalistok in March 1961. I contacted the Byalistok government records office and it had no death records during the period 1960-62 for her. I am hoping that there may be government records for persons entering the country that may help me pin point when she returned, and where she was headed.

Anyone with any ideas? Thank you. Question
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kamcglynn



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Replies: 31

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:55 pm      Post subject: relatives who returned to Poland from USA before WWII
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Hi all. I am wondering if anyone can offer me some advice. My great grandfather's sister, her husband, and their youngest son all returned to Poland sometime between 1930 and 1939. She was born in Humniska, near Brzozow, and her husband was born in Gorki, also near Brzozow. Any ideas if there are any records that would show their return to Poland? Thank you so much! Kate
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Ute
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Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 593
Location: Germany

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:42 am      Post subject: Re: relatives who returned to Poland from USA before WWII
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kamcglynn wrote:
Hi all. I am wondering if anyone can offer me some advice. My great grandfather's sister, her husband, and their youngest son all returned to Poland sometime between 1930 and 1939. She was born in Humniska, near Brzozow, and her husband was born in Gorki, also near Brzozow. Any ideas if there are any records that would show their return to Poland? Thank you so much! Kate

Kate,
There was a discussion on this subject in the forum on Emigration that might be interesting for you to read:
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=1998
Ute
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