Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:36 pm
Post subject: New to this forum. Russian Translation.
I have just discovered this forum an I am hoping to get help with a translation of my great grandparent Tynebor's marriage record. Thank you for any help you can provide.
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fopuszyn
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Replies: 177
Location: Connecticut USABack to top |
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:20 pm
Post subject: Katarzyna Przetakowska d.1897
Hello
Haven't been online for some time. Records are now becoming more and more difficult to locate. But just found a new record!
Attached is the 1897 death record of my 1G GM Katarzyna Przetakowska. She was the daughter of Wojciech and Franciszka Nadrowski.
1) Katarzyna's husband was Stanislaw. Was he living or deceased at time of Katarzyna's death?
2) I believe Katarzyna was born in 1838 in Jankowo. She should be ~59 years at time of death.
3) I believe Franciszka Nadrowska's maiden name was Kowalska. Any mention of maiden name Kowalska?
4) Parish is Sumin. What village did Katarzyna (and Stanislaw) live in?
5) Their daughter is Michalina (my GM). Any mention of her?
Can you please translate at your earliest convenience?
Thanks in advance!
Frank
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Last edited by fopuszyn on Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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harufam
Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Replies: 39
Location: Normantown, WV, USABack to top |
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:14 am
Post subject:
Ryszard,
Would you be king enough to translate these two records? These are from the Parish of Poryte, in Lomza and would be most helpful in "tracking down" some family. Above all, I want to take this opportunity to thank you all for the wonderful help you provide to us. No amount of thanks could possibly satisfy the debt we all owe to you. Thank you and Merrry Xmas. Chuck
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_________________
Researching the Lomza area (Kolno, Poryte, Dobry Las etc) for Charubin, Zonak, Koldys, Siwik
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Anencir Rogoski
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Replies: 93
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:05 pm
Post subject:
| Staripolak64 wrote: | For Anencir:
No. 536
Wyryki
Jan Grysiuk
Completed in the city of Wladaw [?] on 18/31 May, 1905, at 3:00 PM. Appeared in Person Nikodim Grysiuk, 35 years of age, farmer residing in Wyryki, in the presence of witnesses Jozef Jakubowski, 50, and Michal Garszczaruk [?], 56, both farmers residing in Wyryki, and presented us with a male child, declaring that he was born in Wyryki on 8/21 September, 1903, at 10:00 AM of his legal wife Zofia nee Nachymejcka [?] Grysiuk, age 37. At holy baptism today by us, the child was given the name JAN. Godparents were Jan Pelisiuk [?] and Anna Nojewska. This act read to the illiterate and signed only by me. |
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Anencir Rogoski
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Replies: 93
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:07 pm
Post subject:
Ryszard! Thank you so much. Anencir Rogoski.
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Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:49 pm
Post subject: Eliasz Szlama Zelman WONCHOCKIER
Thank you so VERY much again for the translation.
ZACK
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Staripolak64PO Top Contributor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Replies: 961
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Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:01 pm
Post subject:
Two for Podjazd:
No. 14
Completed in the city of Ciechanow on 6/18 April, 1875, at 3:00 PM. Appeared Abram Wątroba, 62, and Gerszon/Gerszen Totengreber, 38, scholars from Ciechanow, and declared that on 3/15 of the current month and year died GITLA PODJAZD, 55, daughter of David Nutar [?] and Ruchel Nutar [?], legal marriage, of the city of Ciechanow. Death of Gitla Podjazd confirmed by eyewitnesses. This act read and signed by the witnesses.
Abram Wątroba
Gerszen Totengreber
- # -
City of Ciechanow
No. 14
Completed in the city of Ciechanow on 10 June, 1870, at 10:00 PM. We declare that in the presence of Abram Wątroba, 55, and Gerszen Totengreber, 33, scholars residing in the city of Ciechanow, that yesterday was concluded the religious marital union between MOSEK/MOSZEK PRZEDWOSWER [?], age 21, single, born in the city of Ciechanow, son of the deceased Abram and his living wife Elka [?] nee Szmit Przedwoswer [?], legal marriage, laborer residing in the city of Ciechanow, having residence with his mother, and RUCHEL PODJAZD, single, born in the city of Ciechanow, daughter of the deceased Lejzar Podjazd and his legal wife Gitla nee Osinogurska [?] Podjazd, age 19, residing with relatives in the city of Ciechanow. The marriage was preceded by the banns of marriage published in the Ciechanow synagogue on 16, 23, and 30 days of this year, month of May. Permission for the marriage was expressed orally to the attendees before the ceremony personally by the mother of the groom and the relatives of the bride. The newlyweds declare that no prenuptial agreement was concluded. Ceremony concluded by Rabbi Enoch Perlemuter. This act read and signed by the rabbi and witnesses.
Rabbi Enoch Perlemuter
Abram Watroba
Gerszen Totengreber
Registrar of civil acts [signature]
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Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:45 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Ryszard. There is something strange going on with these records. Elzbieta translated Ruchla's birth record in the other thread, where her mother Gitla is described as a widow (her first husband died 3 years earlier) and her father is referred to but not actually named. We think maybe Gitla and the father were not married.
Meanwhile, here we have Gitla's death record and Ruchla's marriage record. The first one says Gita was the daughter of David Nutar [?] and Ruchel Nutar [?]. It doesn't mention her first(?) husband Szylim Podjazd who died 28 years earlier, and it also shaves about 9 years off of her age.
The second one says Ruchla was the daughter of the deceased Lejzar Podjazd -- but there was no Leizar Podjazd as far as I know. And that her mother was his legal wife Gitla nee Osinogurska [?] Podjazd. Why Osinogurska when her death record said "Nutar"?
I wonder if some of these names were mixed up by the registrar. Perhaps Ruchla's father was Lejzar Osinogurska?
That's a strange name. JRI-Poland doesn't have anyone with that name. The closest thing is OPINOGORSKI but there is only one person with that name. Googling it leads to a field or park in Ciechanow called Opinogórski -- which makes me wonder if that was the name of a village or area rather than someone's name in the marriage record.
Food for thought, anyway.
Thanks for your help!
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:40 pm
Post subject: marriage record
Ryszard,
Thank you for your help with finishing this translation. I care most what is in the numbered lines; anything interesting in the other line would be nice.
best,
Dave
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:22 pm
Post subject:
| Podjazd wrote: | Thanks Ryszard. There is something strange going on with these records. Elzbieta translated Ruchla's birth record in the other thread, where her mother Gitla is described as a widow (her first husband died 3 years earlier) and her father is referred to but not actually named. We think maybe Gitla and the father were not married.
Meanwhile, here we have Gitla's death record and Ruchla's marriage record. The first one says Gita was the daughter of David Nutar [?] and Ruchel Nutar [?]. It doesn't mention her first(?) husband Szylim Podjazd who died 28 years earlier, and it also shaves about 9 years off of her age.
The second one says Ruchla was the daughter of the deceased Lejzar Podjazd -- but there was no Leizar Podjazd as far as I know. And that her mother was his legal wife Gitla nee Osinogurska [?] Podjazd. Why Osinogurska when her death record said "Nutar"?
I wonder if some of these names were mixed up by the registrar. Perhaps Ruchla's father was Lejzar Osinogurska?
That's a strange name. JRI-Poland doesn't have anyone with that name. The closest thing is OPINOGORSKI but there is only one person with that name. Googling it leads to a field or park in Ciechanow called Opinogórski -- which makes me wonder if that was the name of a village or area rather than someone's name in the marriage record.
Food for thought, anyway.
Thanks for your help! |
John,
Ryszard,
Re: http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/1875_nr14_625.jpg
Nuter?
I think the name is rather Puter, the first letter is very similar to Podjazd. It does not solve any mystery, I am just adding this note, because it might help John.
The second little thing is the word "widow": "wdowa Gitla Podjazd, 55 lat" // "widow Gitla Podjazd, 55 years old". still nothing new.
and
Re: http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/1870_nr_14_149.jpg
Gitla nee Osinogurska [?]
Once I saw the existing name Opinogórski, I looked up closely, there is a little line above the letter following "O", so it is Cyrillic "n" = Latin "p". The "gurska" vs "górska" is the matter of orthography, impossible to distinguish when you write in Cyrillic. At the end, yes, it is Gitla nee Opinogórska.
Maybe it was to state she was living/working at that place, very close to Ciechanow?
Opinogóra - name of place/ property
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_VII/554
Opinogóra Górna - name of place
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinog%C3%B3ra_G%C3%B3rna
Ordynacja Opinogórska Krasińskich
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordynacja_Opinog%C3%B3rska_Krasi%C5%84skich
The term "ordynacja rodowa", in English "fee tail", is a form of trust "which restricts the sale or inheritance of an estate in real property and prevents the property from being sold, devised by will, or otherwise alienated ..."
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordynacja_rodowa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_tail
Question to John: are you sure there was no Lejzar Podjazd? Could he be the brother of Szulim or his cousin?
Szulim passed away in 1847, Gitla was left with 4 minor children:
KTO: [Starozakonny] old religious Szulim Podjazd, died 4 May 1847, 10 am, 40 years old, from Ciechanow, shoemaker, leaving behind widowed wife Gytla Podjazd, and four children, minors
Best,
Elzbieta
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hania16
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Replies: 25
Location: Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.Back to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:16 pm
Post subject: Jozef Glinka Birth certificate #6 1869 Wierzbno
I posted this about 6 days ago.
I didn't see anything and wasn't sure if I missed it.
I know you are all very busy, and I appreciate any help with the translation.
Thank you
Hania
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:54 pm
Post subject:
| Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote: |
John,
Ryszard,
Re: http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/1875_nr14_625.jpg
Nuter?
I think the name is rather Puter, the first letter is very similar to Podjazd. It does not solve any mystery, I am just adding this note, because it might help John.
The second little thing is the word "widow": "wdowa Gitla Podjazd, 55 lat" // "widow Gitla Podjazd, 55 years old". still nothing new.
and
Re: http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/1870_nr_14_149.jpg
Gitla nee Osinogurska [?]
Once I saw the existing name Opinogórski, I looked up closely, there is a little line above the letter following "O", so it is Cyrillic "n" = Latin "p". The "gurska" vs "górska" is the matter of orthography, impossible to distinguish when you write in Cyrillic. At the end, yes, it is Gitla nee Opinogórska.
Maybe it was to state she was living/working at that place, very close to Ciechanow?
Opinogóra - name of place/ property
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_VII/554
Opinogóra Górna - name of place
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinog%C3%B3ra_G%C3%B3rna
Ordynacja Opinogórska Krasińskich
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordynacja_Opinog%C3%B3rska_Krasi%C5%84skich
The term "ordynacja rodowa", in English "fee tail", is a form of trust "which restricts the sale or inheritance of an estate in real property and prevents the property from being sold, devised by will, or otherwise alienated ..."
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordynacja_rodowa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_tail
Question to John: are you sure there was no Lejzar Podjazd? Could he be the brother of Szulim or his cousin?
Szulim passed away in 1847, Gitla was left with 4 minor children:
KTO: [Starozakonny] old religious Szulim Podjazd, died 4 May 1847, 10 am, 40 years old, from Ciechanow, shoemaker, leaving behind widowed wife Gytla Podjazd, and four children, minors
Best,
Elzbieta |
Elzbieta, thanks for the insights. "Puter" would make sense as I see it was a name that was in use in the area.
I don't know for sure that there was no Lejzar Podjazd. My goal is actually to track and organize a family tree for every Podjazd for which I can find a record. Relatively easy since there are so few (about 50).
If the record definitely says "Lejzar Podjazd", then that's a new one that I haven't seen anywhere else!
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Staripolak64PO Top Contributor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Replies: 961
Back to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:35 pm
Post subject:
Dear People,
It has become obvious that my vision is not as good as it used to be. Rather than argue over what is or is not written in a particular record, or even worse, what MIGHT be there, I have decided to stop translating these records. I will no longer participate in this forum.
Thank you for all the support over the past few years. I wish you all success in your searches for your ancestors.
Sincerely,
Richard/Ryszard Rye
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:42 am
Post subject:
Ryszard, I'm only new here but your efforts already have helped me enormously in my family history research. I hope you'll reconsider, and I'm sorry if the speculation in my last comments seemed unappreciative or caused any offence. I certainly didn't mean it! -John (sent you a PM)
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