Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:02 pm
Post subject: death records from WWII - Shultz from Dobiegniewo
My great-grandparents died in Poland during WWII. I am hoping to find their death records, and wrote to the Registration office in Wloclawek but did not receive a reply. Can someone recommend a way to research this? I realize that was a difficult time and many people died then, but i'm hoping some record was made.
Most likely they were living 8 miles to the east of wloclawek, in the vicinity of Dobiegniewo.
Rudolf Schultz, born in 1863. most likely died in 1939 or 1940. Relatives report he was shot by soldiers
His wife, Augustina Schultz, maiden name Drachenberg, born 1859, who most likely died in 1944 or 1945 while fleeing Poland
I would be happy to pay for any research time required- this would mean a great deal to me.
Many thanks!
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marcelproustPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4775
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:28 am
Post subject: Re: death records from WWII
| bwalsh1956 wrote: | My great-grandparents died in Poland during WWII. I am hoping to find their death records, and wrote to the Registration office in Wloclawek but did not receive a reply. Can someone recommend a way to research this? I realize that was a difficult time and many people died then, but i'm hoping some record was made.
Most likely they were living 8 miles to the east of wloclawek, in the vicinity of Dobiegniewo.
Rudolf Schultz, born in 1863. most likely died in 1939 or 1940. Relatives report he was shot by soldiers
His wife, Augustina Schultz, maiden name Drachenberg, born 1859, who most likely died in 1944 or 1945 while fleeing Poland
I would be happy to pay for any research time required- this would mean a great deal to me.
Many thanks! |
Hello,
Please give me all information about Your great grandparents that You have - documents, maybe birth or marriage records, anything that would help to localize their place of living and death. I suppose they were Jews??? I spoke with the priest today from the parish that Dobiegniewo belongs. He said to me that in the church there are no documents from WWII period. He said to me that maybe there are some documents in Wlocławek State Archives.
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU 
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:39 pm
Post subject:
Thanks for your note!
My great grandparents were ethnic Germans whose families had lived in central Poland for generations. They were Lutherans (Evangelists).
My great-grandfather was Rudolf Schultz, who was born in Wista Krolewska in 1863. My great grandmother was born Augustina Florentyna Drachenberg in Wistka Szlachecka in 1859. They lived in Mursk after their marriage in 1883. They were living in Mostki in 1888. These villages are all a few miles away from each other.
Their 3 sons, Gustav, Juliusz, and Jan, all emigrated to the US between 1901 and 1913. They all listed Dobiegniewo as their residence when they entered the US. Their 2 daughters died young in Poland. Rudolf himself lived in the US from 1901 to 1906, but returned to Poland. Family lore is that he ran a small business that made wagon wheels. He also owned a small farm that he had bought from Baron von Moltzahn who lived nearby.
There is a story that my great-grandfather was shot and killed by German soldiers who were searching for someone. He didn't respond to their questions since he was completely deaf (age 77) and had his head turned away from them. I'm assuming this happened in 1939 or 1940 at the start of the invasion. There is another story that my great-grandmother died at the end of the war, while fleeing from the advancing Russian army; I would assume that would have been in 1945 or so.
I assumed the Wloclawek state archives wouldn't have the records since this happened less than 100 years ago. I wrote to the civil record office (Urzad Stanu Cywilnego) in Wloclawek but did not receive a reply.
I'd appreciate any guidance you could give me. I'd also be happy to pay for any research fees. I've attached copies of the documents I have.
Many thanks!
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marcelproustPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4775
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:45 am
Post subject:
| bwalsh1956 wrote: | Thanks for your note!
My great grandparents were ethnic Germans whose families had lived in central Poland for generations. They were Lutherans (Evangelists).
My great-grandfather was Rudolf Schultz, who was born in Wista Krolewska in 1863. My great grandmother was born Augustina Florentyna Drachenberg in Wistka Szlachecka in 1859. They lived in Mursk after their marriage in 1883. They were living in Mostki in 1888. These villages are all a few miles away from each other.
Their 3 sons, Gustav, Juliusz, and Jan, all emigrated to the US between 1901 and 1913. They all listed Dobiegniewo as their residence when they entered the US. Their 2 daughters died young in Poland. Rudolf himself lived in the US from 1901 to 1906, but returned to Poland. Family lore is that he ran a small business that made wagon wheels. He also owned a small farm that he had bought from Baron von Moltzahn who lived nearby.
There is a story that my great-grandfather was shot and killed by German soldiers who were searching for someone. He didn't respond to their questions since he was completely deaf (age 77) and had his head turned away from them. I'm assuming this happened in 1939 or 1940 at the start of the invasion. There is another story that my great-grandmother died at the end of the war, while fleeing from the advancing Russian army; I would assume that would have been in 1945 or so.
I assumed the Wloclawek state archives wouldn't have the records since this happened less than 100 years ago. I wrote to the civil record office (Urzad Stanu Cywilnego) in Wloclawek but did not receive a reply.
I'd appreciate any guidance you could give me. I'd also be happy to pay for any research fees. I've attached copies of the documents I have.
Many thanks! |
All this places that you mention are very close and they are very close to the village Ładne. Priest who was speaking with me from Smólnik (now Dobiegniewo belongs to Smólnik parish) told me that there was in Ładne evangelic church. In marriage document You have attached pastor from Ładne was a witness of this marriage in Włocławek Evangelic Church.
Who told You about this event with your grandfather that he was shut? Somebody must have seen it?
Myabe there is somebody in this area who can remember this... maybe there is some evangelic cementary there ...
First of all i have to make a phone call to Włocławek State Archives and ask where i can search for any information. I also make a phone call to the Evangelic parish in Włocławek and let you know what they had tols me.
I also know that there is evangelic cementary in this area and it is now restores, so mayby i will find somebody who lookf after this cementary, maybe he will help me
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:19 am
Post subject:
the story handed down to me was that a group of villagers were hiding in a basement when the german soldiers came through the town. they were looking for someone. when my great-grandfather didn't answer their questions (because he was totally deaf) he was shot in front of the others. right after the war one of the people who knew this story told a relative in the US. This story was handed down so many times, who knows what originally happened.
I misspoke when i said his residence was Dobiegniewo - some records (from 1911 and 1913) list Mostki as his residence, which is right next to it.
I wonder if his death record would be under Szulc, the Polish spelling for Schultz.
So many millions of people died in Poland during WWII - were they able to identify and record all their deaths?
Thank you so much for your efforts!
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marcelproustPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4775
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:39 pm
Post subject:
| bwalsh1956 wrote: | the story handed down to me was that a group of villagers were hiding in a basement when the german soldiers came through the town. they were looking for someone. when my great-grandfather didn't answer their questions (because he was totally deaf) he was shot in front of the others. right after the war one of the people who knew this story told a relative in the US. This story was handed down so many times, who knows what originally happened.
I misspoke when i said his residence was Dobiegniewo - some records (from 1911 and 1913) list Mostki as his residence, which is right next to it.
I wonder if his death record would be under Szulc, the Polish spelling for Schultz.
So many millions of people died in Poland during WWII - were they able to identify and record all their deaths?
Thank you so much for your efforts! |
Tomorrow i am going to make a phone call all the places that i mentioned.
It is true that many people died during the WWII but when the war was finished very common practice was judicial proceeding to document someones death (if someone wanted to marry again or if someone wanted to inherit something from somebody, etc, then court created fictitious death certificates).
I make the phone calls and let You know everything
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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marcelproustPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4775
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:45 am
Post subject:
| marcelproust wrote: | | bwalsh1956 wrote: | the story handed down to me was that a group of villagers were hiding in a basement when the german soldiers came through the town. they were looking for someone. when my great-grandfather didn't answer their questions (because he was totally deaf) he was shot in front of the others. right after the war one of the people who knew this story told a relative in the US. This story was handed down so many times, who knows what originally happened.
I misspoke when i said his residence was Dobiegniewo - some records (from 1911 and 1913) list Mostki as his residence, which is right next to it.
I wonder if his death record would be under Szulc, the Polish spelling for Schultz.
So many millions of people died in Poland during WWII - were they able to identify and record all their deaths?
Thank you so much for your efforts! |
Tomorrow i am going to make a phone call all the places that i mentioned.
It is true that many people died during the WWII but when the war was finished very common practice was judicial proceeding to document someones death (if someone wanted to marry again or if someone wanted to inherit something from somebody, etc, then court created fictitious death certificates).
I make the phone calls and let You know everything |
Hello,
this is what i know:
I was trying to contact with mayor of Mursk. I spoke with one man who told me that he will speak with him and he will give him my phone number. So, we have to wait what he will say.
I spoke with the evangelic priest from Włocławek and he told me that in State Archives in Włocławek there are documents from different evangelic parishes including years 1829-1913 and 1946 - 2016 There is a gap 1914-1945.
I found phone number to the foundation (named Ari-Ari) which documented Mursk cementery and the head of this foundation told me that nowadays citizens are most emigrants from different regions of Poland, he said to me that there are two families who remember the war. He said to me that he has some documents and said to email him and briefly write who i am looking for, maybe some documents he will find.
Registry office worker from Włocławek told me to write who i am looking for, they have some documents from Evangelic church
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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marcelproustPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4775
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:33 am
Post subject:
| bwalsh1956 wrote: | the story handed down to me was that a group of villagers were hiding in a basement when the german soldiers came through the town. they were looking for someone. when my great-grandfather didn't answer their questions (because he was totally deaf) he was shot in front of the others. right after the war one of the people who knew this story told a relative in the US. This story was handed down so many times, who knows what originally happened.
I misspoke when i said his residence was Dobiegniewo - some records (from 1911 and 1913) list Mostki as his residence, which is right next to it.
I wonder if his death record would be under Szulc, the Polish spelling for Schultz.
So many millions of people died in Poland during WWII - were they able to identify and record all their deaths?
Thank you so much for your efforts! |
Please check the private message, i have a really good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU
PAYPAL: [email protected]
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:51 am
Post subject:
bwalsh1956, marcelproust,
Could you, please, keep us posted with your findings (to the extent of possible, privacy etc.)?
It is a very interesting issue.
I just translated 3 records of unknown soldiers killed in battles of Powstanie stycznione – January Uprising 1863-1864.
The three records from 1864 were made pursuant to the legal reminder from the Court of circuit Pyzdry, which I guess, was about human duty to burry men killed in battles, no matter their origin, and write records.
cf. http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=27129#27129
Thank you,
Elzbieta
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:06 am
Post subject:
hi elzbieta
I've learned the following:
Records less than 100 years are not in the regional archives. Instead they are kept in each town's civil registration office (urzd stanu cywilnego). They are less user-friendly than the archives.
1. They do not do searches. They will look up the record if given the name and date of event.
2. They do not provide scans. They will fill out a form that will list all the information that they have available in their record, and will send it out by regular mail
3. You must be a direct descendant to obtain this information. I needed to show copies of birth certificates to show the line of descent, as well as a copy of a government-issued photo ID.
4. You need to be a Polish resident, or give power-of-attorney to a Polish resident to act on your behalf.
5. Many records from WWII were lost. I was fortunate the my ancestor's record was preserved.
6. A long form record costs 33 zloty ($9)
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