ecltwo
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Katy, TEXASBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:37 pm
Post subject: Poland or Ukraine
My younger brother (only 74yrs old) and I (76yrs old) are have a different opinion wrt our Mother's side of the family.
Hoping you can clear some of 'clouds' we are flying into... Everyone who might have known have passed (last one, a 2nd cousin, died on the 23rd of April), so we a flying on our own.
Most of our family history documents ended up in ashes following our younger sister's house following a fire that left nothing but bricks, rocks, cement, and metal.
Hence, I have pictures of two documents that might provide some info once translated.
NOTES
* Grandfather (Jan Craplinski) from Porzecze, Galicia (according to 1912 US Immigration Passenger Record)
Ethnicity: Austria, Ruthenia
Ship of Travel: Konigen Luise
* Grandmother (Anastazya Rzepko) from Dembno, Galicia (according to 1910 US Immigration Passenger Record)
Ethnicity: Austria, Polish
Ship of Travel: Zieten
Hoping you can help.
Ed Lewis
50-50 Ukrainian-American (both of my Grandparents on my Mother's side of the family were from Galicia)
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2783
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:15 pm
Post subject:
Ed,
I can translate your grandmother's birth and baptism record since the document itself is bilingual but all the entries are in Latin. Someone else will have to help you with your grandfather's document.
I will transcribe and translate the info in the main part of the certificate but will only translate everything else.
Given names will be translated first into the Polish version followed by the English version.
All the evidence in the certificate confirms that your grandmother was Polish. The attached map shows Poland at the time the certificate was issued (1938). The other map shows Galicia at the time of her birth.
Hope the translation helps.
Dave
Top left: The Republic of Poland; Diocese of Przemysl; District/Powiat: Lancut
Top Right: Province/Wojewodztwo: Lwow; Deanery/Dekenat: Lezajsk; Parish: Dembno
Certificate of birth and of baptism
On the part of the Greek Rite Catholic parish office of the Church of St. George/sw. Jerzy (seal and civil revenue stamp) it becomes known and certified that in the metrical books of this Church Volume VI, page 10 is found the following:
Col.1: Year, month, and day of birth, (&) of Baptism and Confirmation: In the One Thousand Eight Hundred Ninety First year of Our Lord (1/1/1891)
Col. 2: House Number: 327
Col. 3: Name: Catharina = Katarzyna/Catherine
Col. 4: Religion: Graeco Cath. = Greek (Eastern Rite) Catholic
Col. 5: Sex/Gender: Foeminina = Female
Col. 6: The (marital) bed: legitimus = legitimate
Col. 7: The Parents and their status/condition/occupation: Jacobus Repko filius Adalberti et Euphemiae Kozak agr(icolae) loci Maria filia Josephi Jarzynski et Annae natae Gajda agr(icolae) loci = Jakub/Jacob/James Repko, the son of Wojciech/Adalbert and of Eufemia/Euphemia (nee) Kozak, farmers of this place; Marya/Mary, the daughter of Jozef/Joseph Jarzynski and of Anna/Anne born/nee Gajda, farmers of this place.
Col. 8: The sponsors and their status/condition/occupation: Joannes Banas; Anna uxor Stephani Biela agricolae = Jan/John Banas; Anna/Anne, the wife of Szczepan/Stefan/Stephen Biela, farmers
Notation in Cols. 3-7: Anna ??? obste(trix) = Anna/Anne ??? (was) the midwife
Notation in Cols. 3-8: Baptisavit et confirmavit: Alexius ???? parochus = Aleksy/Alexis ????, the pastor, baptized and confirmed (her).
Certification: Which testimonials/certificate I sign below in my own hand and corroborate with the parish church seal.
Dembno the 10th day of March in the Year of Our Lord 1938
Parish seal
Signature of pastor when the certificate was issued (1938)
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Poland or Ukraine
| ecltwo wrote: | My younger brother (only 74yrs old) and I (76yrs old) are have a different opinion wrt our Mother's side of the family.
Hoping you can clear some of 'clouds' we are flying into... Everyone who might have known have passed (last one, a 2nd cousin, died on the 23rd of April), so we a flying on our own.
Most of our family history documents ended up in ashes following our younger sister's house following a fire that left nothing but bricks, rocks, cement, and metal.
Hence, I have pictures of two documents that might provide some info once translated.
NOTES
* Grandfather (Jan Craplinski) from Porzecze, Galicia (according to 1912 US Immigration Passenger Record)
Ethnicity: Austria, Ruthenia
Ship of Travel: Konigen Luise
* Grandmother (Anastazya Rzepko) from Dembno, Galicia (according to 1910 US Immigration Passenger Record)
Ethnicity: Austria, Polish
Ship of Travel: Zieten
Hoping you can help.
Ed Lewis
50-50 Ukrainian-American (both of my Grandparents on my Mother's side of the family were from Galicia) |
Ed,
With Dave's Latin translation, and a little geography search you have it all.
Jan Czaplinski from Porzecze, Galicia
and
Anastazja Rzepko from Dembno, Galicia
Both Greek-Catholic
==
1. Dembno writes Dębno, and is in today Poland, near Łańcut
Dębno,+Podkarpackie+Voivodeship,+Poland
But
2. Porzecze is in today Ukraine, not far away from Lwow (Lviv)
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_VIII/836
Left side, bottom Porzecze, then on the righ side the sentence starting with „W r 1880 bylo 74 domow, 385 mieszkancow w gminie, 3 domy 28 mieszkancow na obrzarze dworu: 16 rzymsko-katolikow, 375 greco-katolikow, 22 izraelczykow; 34 Polakow, 379 Rusinow. Parafia rzynsko-katolicka w Grodku, grecko-katolicka w Porzeczu Grunt. Za czasow rzeczypospolitej nalezala wiec do korony, starostwa grodeckiego, w ziemi lwowskiej.” // In 1880 Porzecze had: 74 houses, 385 inhabitants withing community of villages, and 3 houses 28 inhabitants within the manor; 16 Roman-Catholic, 375 Greek-Catholic, 22 Jews; 34 Poles, 379 Rusins. The Roman-catholic parish was in Grodek, the Greek-Catholic in Porzecze Grunt.
Searching more on Greek-Catholic parishes , I found Horożana
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_III/154
Within that item there is a description about Greek-Catholic organization:
(righ side) Dekanat Horożanski nalezy do diecezji Przemyskiej, a obejmuje oprocz Horożany Wielkiej nastepujace paradie: Horbacze, Horożana Mala, Klicko, Kolodruby, Lowczyce, Monasterzec, Piaski, Porzecze Grunt, Rumno, Ryczychow, Tatarynow i Werbiz. // Deanary Horożana belong to the diocesis Przemysl, and includes following parishes: etc.
Google Maps:
Łańcut,+Poland/Dębno,+Podkarpackie+Voivodeship,+Poland/Piaski,+Lviv+Oblast,+Ukraine/Porichchya+Zadvirne,+Lviv+Oblast,+Ukraine/Kosowiec,+Lviv+Oblast,+Ukraine
The strange name: Porichchya Zadvirne is Porzecze Zadworne. Porichchya = Porzecze.
On the old Polish map:
http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/series/100K_300dpi/4171_RUDKI_i_KOMARNO_IWG_1921_300dpi.jpg
Top Right corner. Go to the West (left) until “Malkowice”, then go South (down), you will see railways, Porzecze Grunt, below is Kosowiec, then Burcze, Piaski, and towards West Porzecze Zadworne.
Your place is one of Porzecze, probably Porzecze Grunt.
Best,
Elzbieta
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sirdanPO Top Contributor
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**Back to top |
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:38 am
Post subject:
All names on birth certifiate of Katarzyna are polish, but faith is greekcatholic. I know that there are cases where polish was greekcatholics, and ukrainians were catholics and polish speaking, We talk about borders between polish and ukrainians/ruthenians/lemkos, where it was common to having marriages between people of different faith and ethnicity. Whats more, at hard times, people were babtised or took marriages in church of different faith. It is hard to judge for me with 100% what ethnicity of Katharina was. According to http://www.apokryfruski.org/kultura/nadsanie/debno/ there were 4 times more ukrainians than poles in Dębno. Copy of the passenger manifest states she and other people coming from Dębno are Ruthenian, not Polish.
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ecltwo
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Katy, TEXASBack to top |
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:23 pm
Post subject:
Sirdan,
WRT, "Copy of the passenger manifest states she and other people coming from Dębno are Ruthenian, not Polish.", is it possible for you to send me a link to the document?
The document that I have shows 'Poland'... I got it from "The Statue of Liberty - Ellis Island Foundation" website. Copy attached
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sirdanPO Top Contributor
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**Back to top |
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:40 pm
Post subject:
Here is the link to the ship manifest http://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger-details/czoxMjoiMTAxMjgwMDkwMDIyIjs=/czo5OiJwYXNzZW5nZXIiOw== I cropped relevant part and attached below.
It looks like ruthenians people starts with Kmiec Ewa, and your picture is incorrect. Or, maybe transcribing volunteer recognized with his knowledge, that only ruthenian is Ewa, and rest people are polish. What you think?
It may be possible she came from mixed family, according to this source http://nadbuhom.pl/art_2545.html surname ending with -ko is ukrainian, maybe belarussian too. So father Jakub might have been ukrainian, mother Maria polish. Just guessing.
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ecltwo
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Katy, TEXASBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:24 pm
Post subject:
One of my Grandfaather's friends was said to be from the same town in Galivia where my GF came from.
I was unable to locate the town as it is spelled (the 'Jonowshie' word) on the friend's USA immigration document. See the attached photo.
Hoping you can tell me something about the town,
Ed
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sirdanPO Top Contributor
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**Back to top |
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:32 am
Post subject:
Hello, what you see on the photo is Porzecze, Janowskie, Austria, (Poland). The village your GF came from was Porzecze. Sometimes it was called Porzecze-Rottenhan. I didnt find many resources about this village:
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porzecze_(rejon_jaworowski)
Janowskie means district - nearest bigger town - Janów, today its called Ivano-Frankowe https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwano-Frankowe
Here you can find missing first page of manifest http://stevemorse.org/ellis2/mm.htm?back=http://www.stevemorse.org/
Now choose the right date of arrival 29 of march 1912, then enter 1830 number as a roll, and 1106 number as a frame. you will get manifest. Second page is 1107 or +1 frame.
According to above manifest, your GF was Jan Czapliński, ruthenian, going from Porzecze, His aunt? Anna was from sistervillage Rottenhan, and another passenger, friend, from other village Gorzece or something like that.
Jan Czapliński left his father Grymelko?? Czapliński, Anna left his father Onufry?? Sendzik, Iwan Kiwan left his father Kryspin??? Kiwan. All three were heading to Anna's brother, Sendzik, to Southport, Conneticut.
Cheers.
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ecltwo
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Katy, TEXASBack to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:50 am
Post subject: File Viewing Problem
Thks Sirdan,
Ref from yr msg: "Here you can find missing first page of manifest http://stevemorse.org/ellis2/mm.htm?back=http://www.stevemorse.org/
Now choose the right date of arrival 29 of march 1912, then enter 1830 number as a roll, and 1106 number as a frame. you will get manifest. Second page is 1107 or +1 frame."
Tried this a number of times and came up with NO weblink response (ps Used three different browsers) ...
I must be doing something wrong... hope you can enlighten me,
Ed
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
Back to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:25 am
Post subject: Re: File Viewing Problem
| ecltwo wrote: | Thks Sirdan,
Ref from yr msg: "Here you can find missing first page of manifest http://stevemorse.org/ellis2/mm.htm?back=http://www.stevemorse.org/
Now choose the right date of arrival 29 of march 1912, then enter 1830 number as a roll, and 1106 number as a frame. you will get manifest. Second page is 1107 or +1 frame."
Tried this a number of times and came up with NO weblink response (ps Used three different browsers) ...
I must be doing something wrong... hope you can enlighten me,
Ed |
Ed~ Worked for me, although it took a second or 2 for the 1107 image to load. I've saved & will try to attach the image here.
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ecltwo
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Replies: 12
Location: Katy, TEXASBack to top |
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:57 am
Post subject: My Last Msg
GOT IT...! ! !
Gave it one last GO and was successful...
Ed
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