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Loufamtree



Joined: 30 Sep 2011
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:35 am      Post subject: searching for birthplace of Zaleski ancestors
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Wondering if anyone can help me with this

The story passed down in my mother's family is that her Zaleski ancestors, five siblings who immigrated to the U.S. in the early 1900's, were from Torun, Poland. (There was pride associated with this fact - Torun being where Copernicus was from!)

The story doesn't seem to fit the research I've done so far, however. All documents related to these ancestors indicate that their birthplace was "Russia-Poland". As far as I can tell, Torun was never part of Russia-Poland.

I was able to find one document for the oldest sibling that indicates his town of birth as simply "Orzechowo". I found a town by this name that is very close to Torun. I obtained baptismal records for this town on LDS microfilm. It was all written in German, so very easy to read, but I found no Zaleskis listed on it at all. No surprise because again, all other documents I've found for this person indicate Russia-Poland as his birthplace. not Prussia.

Most other towns in Poland by the name of Orzechowo were also part of Prussia, except for one that seems to be in the area of Warsaw. Unfortunately, LDS doesn't have microfilms for any of the other Orzechowo's, as far as i can tell.

Dead end! Wondered if anyone has any info or suggestions
Thanks,
Louise
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Henryk
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:55 pm      Post subject:
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Many more Orzechowo in Russian Poland. From 1934 atlas:
wojwódstwo/parish (r=Catholic, p=orthodox, e=Ewangelic)
Bial/r=Krasnopol
Nowogr/r=Starojelnia, p=Wolówka
Pod/r &p=Mołoryta
Pom/r=Orzechowo, e=Ryńsk (2 places)
Pozn/r=Czeszewo, e=Nowa Miasta n/Wartą
Wars/r=Jasieniec
Wars/r=Pomiechówek
Wilno/r=Mieżany
Wilno/r=Parafjanów, p=Hnieżdziłowo
Wilno/r=Budsław
Wars/Pomiechówek
Pol/p=Samary (2 places)
See the Geographical Dictionary for more.
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Loufamtree



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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:58 pm      Post subject: Orzechowo
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Hi Henryk!

Thanks!

How do I access the geographical dictionary? I'm not sure
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Loufamtree



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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:01 pm      Post subject:
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P.S. How do you know those were Russia-Poland? Is that kind of info indicated in the geographic dictionary ?

Thanks again
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Henryk
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:16 pm      Post subject:
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Neither the 1934 Atlas nor the Geographical Dictionary specify partition location. This is given by the powiat/wojewódstwo name.
Organization of Poland through the ages:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podzia%C5%82_administracyjny_Kr%C3%B3lestwa_Polskiego
1934 Atlas. Click on content. Page 13 lists powiat. Page 1206 shows Orzechowo(see gmina and powiat).
http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=12786
Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Poland. For Orzechowo, click on 598, against Orsza, and then pages 611 and 612.
http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/polszczyzna/SGKPi/SGKPinfose2.html#x3-50002
you must download the djvu viewer to view both documents:
http://djvu.sourceforge.net/djview4.html
From the Geographical Dictionary (CP=Congress Poland, WPR=Western Provinces Russia. Pr=Prussia): Orzechowo:
pow kielecki, gmina Bodzentyn, par Wzdół. CP.
pow płoński, gm & par Pomiechowo. CP.
pow sejneński. CP nr Suwałki.
pow ihumeński, par Kalwarya. WPR.
pow nowogródski. WPR
pow Wrzesiński, par Dębno. Pr.
Pr?
pow toruński, rc par Orzechowo, evan par Kowalew? Pr.
pow łecki, Pr.
pow olsztyński. Pr.
tom 15, page 400 and then page 416
pow brzeski, gub grodz, gm Ołtusz, par Orzechowo. WPR.
pow nowoaleksandrowski, gm Brasław. WPR.
pow lepelski, gm and par Orzechowo. WPR
pow połocki. WPR
pow siebieski. WPR
pow kowelski, gm Lelików. WPR.
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Ute
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:02 am      Post subject: Re: searching for birthplace of Zaleski ancestors
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Louise,
I don't have any info on your Zaleski ancestors, but I see that you have ancestors from Dlugopole and the names Kaczmarczyk, Migtus, Orszulak, and Sperla in your family tree.

I thought you might be interested in something I found by chance when I was looking for a church marriage record at St. Adalbert Church, Chicago: The 1911 church marriage record of Joannes (Jan/John) Kaczmarczyk, son of Joannes Kaczmarczyk and Catherine Mietus (Mietus with a comma under the e -- pronouned Mientus) to Angela Orszulak, daughter or Joseph Orszulak and Anna Sperla. According to the church marriage record, bride and groom were from Dlugopole, Nowy Targ. Marriage witnesses were Joseph Kosciak and Sophia Kasper. This is your your family, isn't it? If you don't have the church marriage record yet, I can mail it to you.

Have you researched your ancestors back to Dlugopole? I'm asking because I have ancestors from Dlugopole also and just completed an index of Dlugopole villagers who temporarily or permanently emigrated to the United States, but haven't come across the names Kaczmarczyk, Mietus, Orszulak, and Sperla in Dlugopole so far.
Ute
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Loufamtree



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:37 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Ute

You sent me the above message so long ago and I never realized that you did - sorry. I haven't checked in for quite a while. I know of the marriage record that you described and do have a copy of it. I am still trying to find out where the Kaczmarczyk family came from in Poland. I thought it was Dlugopole as it says on the marriage record, but if you have never seen that name in your research of that village then that would not make sense. I know from researching my italian ancestry that when youre looking at records from a particular village you see the same handful of names over and over - there is usually no mistaking who is from the town and who is not! The other town name that has come up for some of the family has been Ciche, whcih I think is not far from Dlugopole. I know that the Polish Archives is putting some of the records online now. Do you know if there are any posted yet from that region? Thanks so much for your help.
Sincerely!!!
Louise
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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:59 am      Post subject:
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Louise,
I think that you can trust that the church record is accurate. The chances that the priest wrote down something incorrectly are much less than an indexer working on the Ellis Island records. Also, your ancestor could have come through another port. Also, if they arrived before 1907, the village they came from may not be on the ship manifest. I've looked at some Dlugopole emigrants myself, and found that the indexer read it as, Dluppolo, Dingopole, Olwgopole, Dlujopole, Dluzo Wola, Dluggzole, etc.

I looked for my grandmother on and off for 10 years. I finally figured that she must have come through another port, even though I'm pretty certain she told us that she came through Ellis Island. Someone found Aniela Lenart from Zaluczne coming through Ellis Island, indexed as Anieta Seuard from Telngger. It has to be tough to be an indexer looking at cursive handwriting, and unfamiliar with Polish family and place names.

Unfortunately I didn't see any records for Dlugopole or Ciche at the Polish Archives site,
http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/ Zaluczne is in that part of Poland too, and there isn't anything for Zaluczne either.
Cheri
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TadWysocki



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:36 am      Post subject:
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Louise,
You told in your first message "The story passed down in my mother's family is that her Zaleski ancestors, five siblings who immigrated to the U.S. in the early 1900's" - I need their names, I want to see with my Polish eyes their immigration ship manifest [but I have access to the Ellis Island database only].
For today I've checked all Orzechowo, and other versions of the places located in the old "Russia", and surname locations with Zaleski, together with etymological versions of your family name, and for the moment I can start the game:
Orzechowo - yes, they are few, but using Polish language and grammar declension: from "Orzechowa", the place name might be Orzechow [fully spelled in Polish as Orzechów].
The family name "Zaleski" might be given as:
Zaleski
Zal~e~ski (fully spelled in Polish as Załęski)
Zalewski
In the only one Orzechow in the present-day Poland I can find:
Slawomir Zalewski & family Zalewski, Orzechow, gmina (commune) Borze, east of Warsaw.
For this Orzechow the main Polish local town is Wegrow, where we can find 10 Poles surnamed Zalewski.
The parish in the 19th century for this Orzechow was Czerwonka, this was a credle of many Polish Noble families from old centuries, the name of the land was "Ziemia Liwska", here you can find some list including Noble family Zaleski: http://akson.sgh.waw.pl/~apszczol/liw.htm
So if the family ancestral parish was this Czerwonka, fortunately some old records from this parish were indexed by our PTG - Polish Genealogical Society, and you can see some names from old centuries, including Zaleski, Załęski, and Zalewski (for a few Polish families the name might be changed from old Zaleski to Zalewski):
Births 1689-1777: http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=2926&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=Zaleski&search_lastname2=&rpp2=50&rpp1=0&bdm=D&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=
Marriages 1688-1802: http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=2926&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=Zaleski&search_lastname2=&rpp2=50&rpp1=0&bdm=B&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=
Deaths 1688-1803: http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=2928&from_date=&to_date=&search_lastname=Zaleski&search_lastname2=&rpp2=50&rpp1=0&bdm=B&w=07mz&op=gt&lang=
FHL/LDS in Salt Lake City has this parish from years 1810-1865: https://familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetailsprint.asp?titleno=62184
Well, let's hope your family parish was this Czerwonka, so you can follow your search, and jorney to the family past. If not this Czerwonka, never give up!, we will check other "Orzechowo".
Happy weekend in the U.S.
Tadeusz "Tad" from sunny Warsaw
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DianePotter69
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:52 am      Post subject:
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Loufamtree wrote:
Hi Ute

You sent me the above message so long ago and I never realized that you did - sorry. I haven't checked in for quite a while. I know of the marriage record that you described and do have a copy of it. I am still trying to find out where the Kaczmarczyk family came from in Poland. I thought it was Dlugopole as it says on the marriage record, but if you have never seen that name in your research of that village then that would not make sense. I know from researching my italian ancestry that when youre looking at records from a particular village you see the same handful of names over and over - there is usually no mistaking who is from the town and who is not! The other town name that has come up for some of the family has been Ciche, whcih I think is not far from Dlugopole. I know that the Polish Archives is putting some of the records online now. Do you know if there are any posted yet from that region? Thanks so much for your help.
Sincerely!!!
Louise


Hello
I am also looking for the Kaczmarczyk family. Antoni Kaczmarczyk was born in 1882 Poland. His first daughter Weronika was born in Jan 7, 1909 in Kopanki, Kalusz, Poland. Her mother died and he remarried I think the same years to Zofia Koc as their first child was born in 1910. They were all born in Kopanki, Poland. Wondering if this could be a relation? Some of them came to Canada.
Diane Potter Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ute
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:03 am      Post subject:
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Cheri Vanden Berg wrote:
Louise,
I think that you can trust that the church record is accurate. The chances that the priest wrote down something incorrectly are much less than an indexer working on the Ellis Island records. Also, your ancestor could have come through another port. Also, if they arrived before 1907, the village they came from may not be on the ship manifest. I've looked at some Dlugopole emigrants myself, and found that the indexer read it as, Dluppolo, Dingopole, Olwgopole, Dlujopole, Dluzo Wola, Dluggzole, etc.

I looked for my grandmother on and off for 10 years. I finally figured that she must have come through another port, even though I'm pretty certain she told us that she came through Ellis Island. Someone found Aniela Lenart from Zaluczne coming through Ellis Island, indexed as Anieta Seuard from Telngger. It has to be tough to be an indexer looking at cursive handwriting, and unfamiliar with Polish family and place names.

Unfortunately I didn't see any records for Dlugopole or Ciche at the Polish Archives site,
http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/ Zaluczne is in that part of Poland too, and there isn't anything for Zaluczne either.
Cheri

Cheri,
I'm sorry but I have to contradict what you are saying about trusting the accuracy of church records. When my grandfather's sister Karolina got married in Feb 1914 at St. John Cantius church in Chicago, the priest wrote down in her church marriage record that she was baptized in March 1895 in Ludzmierz, the parish Dlugopole villagers attended. Since Karolina's mother's family was from Dlugopole, I believed that this information was correct. However, a local genealogist who checked the Ludzmierz parish records for me couldn't find Karolina's birth/baptism record nor that of her siblings. Many years later I received a copy the original baptism record from one of Karolina's descendants in the US and it turned out that she was born on April 19, 1896 in Budapest where the family had lived for a number of years before returning to Dlugopole. She was baptized on April 20, 1896 in the St. Stephani Basilica in Budapest. There's no doubt that this is the correct baptism record, as it has both her parents' names and her father's birth/baptism place (Szaflary) on it. I have no clue why the Chicago priest wrote down that she was baptized in March 1895 in Ludzmierz, but it happens.


Last edited by Ute on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ute
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:34 am      Post subject:
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Loufamtree wrote:
Hi Ute

You sent me the above message so long ago and I never realized that you did - sorry. I haven't checked in for quite a while. I know of the marriage record that you described and do have a copy of it. I am still trying to find out where the Kaczmarczyk family came from in Poland. I thought it was Dlugopole as it says on the marriage record, but if you have never seen that name in your research of that village then that would not make sense. I know from researching my italian ancestry that when youre looking at records from a particular village you see the same handful of names over and over - there is usually no mistaking who is from the town and who is not! The other town name that has come up for some of the family has been Ciche, whcih I think is not far from Dlugopole. I know that the Polish Archives is putting some of the records online now. Do you know if there are any posted yet from that region? Thanks so much for your help.
Sincerely!!!
Louise

Hi Louise! Good to hear from you again! I found a record for a Kaczmarczyk baby born 13 Feb 1931 in Chicago to John Kaczmarczyk and Angeline Orszulak (misspelled 'Orsynlak'). John Kaczmarczyk's birthplace is indexed as County Ropczyce, Poland which is here: http://mapq.st/1aN5EYE
It looks like Jan/John Kaczmarczyk had a sister Rozalia who married Jan 'John' F. Zmuda. He was born 15 Jul 1893 in Gora Motyczna which is very close to Ropczyce (10.9 miles WNW of Ropczyce according to this website:
http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/kolbuszowa/sl_goramotyczna.htm
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Loufamtree



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Post Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:14 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Everyone

I used to get an email notification when someone would respond to one of my posts on Polish Origins - I'm not sure why but I no longer get them, and for that reason have not checked in - sorry!

Ute - thanks for the info - I did see that listing too on the birth certificate of John and Angeline Kaczmarczyk's child. The reference to Roczyce confused me when I saw where it is on the map, because I've been thinking up until now that he was from the area around Nowy Targ. His children (one of whom was my father in law) always said that their Dad used to call himself a "Polish Hillbilly" - which I took to possibly mean "Highlander". I have researched John's sisters, trying to find any documents related to where they where born, their marriage records, etc., but haven't found much info. His marriage record listing Dlugopole is the most specific thing I've found but there's nothing to corroborate that, and you had mentioned that you hadn't seen any Kaczmarczyks from there. The Orszulaks (Angeline's family) I know were from Ciche, however.

Regarding the Zaleski familiy - Ted - thanks so much for the info. I did find records at the church in New Britain CT with the info that my Zaleski ancestors were from a tiny town in Makow called "Ponikiew Wielka". The reference for one of them to a birthplace of Orzechowo remains a mystery for now!

Does anyone know if the Polish Archives will be putting more records online soon - or at all?

Thanks
Louise
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Loufamtree



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Post Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:25 pm      Post subject:
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PS Tad - (Sorry I wrote Ted before) I will definitely look at those links you posted about Zaleskis. Thanks. I hope I came from nobility !!!!

PS Ute - Thanks so much for pointing out that the name on that marriage record for John and Angeline is actually "Mietus" -- my Polish is not so great and I read it as "Migtus" because of the squiggle under the "e"!! Changing it on my family tree right away. It understand that Mietus was a founding family in Ciche. I wonder if John's mother Katherine was from there.
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Loufamtree



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Post Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:56 pm      Post subject: Budapest
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Hi Ute

You mentioned in a past post that one of your ancestors was born in Budapest. Just curious - how were you able to find a birth record from Hungary? Someone on my husband's side, Marianna Orszulak, might have been born there. (Daughter of Jozef Orszulak and Anna Sperla) I know families from the Nowy Targ area used to go there for temporary work, and her death record in Chicago says Budapest for place of birth. All other documents for her say Poland..

Thanks
Louise
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