PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Author
Message
Mary Pate



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Replies: 56
Location: Overland Park, KS

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:53 pm      Post subject: Emigration Ports
Reply with quote

Confused I guess you can call this -- inquisitive minds! Does anyone know what might have been the reason for coming imto Ellis Island or going through Baltimore when coming to America?
My paternal grandparents came through Ellis in 1900 and my mother's parents came through Baltimore in 1905. Both came directly to the same town in the Midwest. The paternal grandparents came from Austrian controlled and the others, from Poznan Province (German). Both were Polish by "ethnicity" as the ship manifests show.
Appreciate any comment on this.

Mary Pate
View user's profile
Send private message
Don



Joined: 13 May 2010
Replies: 39
Location: Temperance, Mi

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:03 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Mary,
My Uncle came here in 1909 and passed through Ellis Island. He was the first family member to emmigrate. His brother [my Dad] came through Baltimore, Md. in 1913. I feel it was because a family member was already here. My aunt came here through Philidelphia, Pa. in 1911 to join my Uncle. I think the first time immigants had to go through Castle Garden and later when Ellis Island opened.

Don
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1484
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:52 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Hi Mary,

The reason for choosing the port of Baltimore rather than NY may very well be found in the steamship line used to come to the US. In 1868 North German Lloyd (Norddeutscher Lloyd) and the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad entered into an agreement for joint marketing to potential immigrants. Agents made the rounds of villages in Poland (especially in the Prov. of Posen/Poznan) and sold tickets to those who wished to emigrate from Poland. North German Lloyd regularly departed from Bremen. One option was to purchase both the steamship ticket and a RR ticket on the B & O in Europe as part of a package deal. Another option was to purchase the RR ticket upon arrival in Baltimore. As part of the agreement between the two companies the B&O constructed new piers in Locust Point in Baltimore. Those piers directly connected to the B&O terminal. The B&O also constructed special immigrant passenger cars which were larger than the normal passenger cars of the time. The B&O had direct service to many cities and towns of the Midwest. It was common for the medical inspectors and customs agents to board the steamship as it entered the Chesapeake Bay and since it took some time to steam to Baltimore very often all examinations were complete by the time the ship docked. All this made it a very smooth and convenient last leg of the long journey. The immigrants then disembarked at the pier, walked through the pier and the RR terminal and boarded the train to the final destination....No mess...no fuss. The longest possible delay would be to wait for the departure of the proper train.

My maternal great grandparents, together with their four daughters (including my 4 year old grandmother) arrived in Baltimore on April 28, 1888. They took the B&O to South Chicago. The train station was at 87th Street & Baltimore Avenue which was only a four block walk to their destination on the 8500 block of Buffalo Avenue.

Two keys to determining whether any of the same factors were in play for your maternal grandparents would be: 1) Did they sail from Bremen? and 2) Was the ship owned by North German Lloyd? and 3) Did the B&O serve to town to which they traveled either as a direct route or via a connecting line? The attachments show the B&O pier and terminal in Baltimore as well as the main routes of the B&O.

Hope this helps a bit or at least opens up a new possibility.

Wishing you success in figuring out the why and the wherefore,

Dave



1891 B&O Railroad.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  515.79 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

1891 B&O Railroad.jpg



BOLocstPt.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  39.91 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

BOLocstPt.jpg



baltimore pier.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  119.91 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

baltimore pier.jpg



B&O Piers at Locust Point.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  53.74 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

B&O Piers at Locust Point.JPG


View user's profile
Send private message
Don



Joined: 13 May 2010
Replies: 39
Location: Temperance, Mi

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:12 pm      Post subject: Immigration Ports
Reply with quote

Dave,
Thanks for the information. My Father sailed from Bremen on the North German Lloyd liner "Rhein" in 1913. Your post answered my questions also.

Don
View user's profile
Send private message
Mary Pate



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Replies: 56
Location: Overland Park, KS

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:11 am      Post subject: Emigration Ports
Reply with quote

Thank you, Dave, for a very informative answer. I'm been into this genealogy for a few years. After a while, your mind wanders to find more. My maternal parents were from the old Poznan Province. However, I have an interesting tidbit to add: Grandparents from Poznan area arrived in Baltimore on the SS Main in 1905. Manifest does not list company of ship. However, paternal grandparents arrived in 1900 through Ellis Island, both sets leaving ouf of port of Bremen. Latter's ship was the SS Lahn, company at top of manifest, Norddeutscher Lloyd.

I had copies of this B&O some time ago when I was tracing their routes from their Polish home to their destination, Leavenworth, Kansas. You confirmed what I had though. I see the B&O comes down from New York, too, going as far as St. Louis. It is possible they went the rest of the way on the Missouri Pacific if it operated then. When I was growing up, a MoPac route went from StL through Kansas City north to Omaha with a stop in Leavenworth.

I have printed this post out for my daughters. Both of them and I are planning a trip to NYC in September to go to Ellis and stand on the land where Castle Garden was, where a gr-grandpa arrived in 1871. He returned to Poland and died there in 1913. Guess it didn't suit him here. Four of his daughers and a son did emigrate out here and stayed. Lots of stories to be told. As a common phrase, just wished I had asked my grandma more questions. I am currently reading a book on Ellis Island, it's history. It also has a section on Castle Garden. Very interesting.

Paternal grandparents came from eastern Galicia. That was a trek to Berlin. I did find a railroad going thru Ternopil that they may have taken.

Thanks again,
Mary
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1484
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:52 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Mary,

I didn't intend to imply that all North German Lloyd ships sailed to Baltimore nor that only North German Lloyd ships used the B&O's piers. Some North German Lloyd ships sailed to Baltimore and some to NY and to other ports in North & South America and other steamship lines used the B&O piers. As I remember, the agreement between the two companies guaranteed that NGL would send at least one ship per month to the B&O piers in Locust Point. The B&O certainly has a line from NY to Baltimore and it would seem that it would have been possible to disembark in the Port of NY and purchase a B&O train ticket there but that was beyond the scope of the agreement between the two companies. It does seem safe to conclude that for those like my grandmother and her parents and siblings whose ship first stopped in NY and then continued to Baltimore the immigrants would have chosen Baltimore due to the convenience of the direct connection between ship and rail. My ancestors also sailed on a NGL ship named "Main" but it wasn't the same ship on which your maternal grandparents sailed. Over the years NGL owned three passenger ships called "Main". My ancestors sailed on the 1868 Main and yours most likely sailed on the 1900 Main. The third "Main" was a post WWI ship. The attachment describes the first two Mains but there is an error in the title of the second Main. It should read "1900 Main" rather than "1906 Main". The 1906 Main was a cargo rather than a passenger ship and was not owned by NGL. The other attachment is a picture of the 1900 Main and the third is a picture of the 1868 Main.

The rail route worked best for those immigrants going to the industrial cities of the Northern Midwest and I'm sure that, as you said, your ggparents completed the rail journey on another line but the B&O would have taken care of the greatest part of the rail journey.

I've wondered about the price of passenger tickets in 1888---was there a reduced price based on the age of the children? I've found info on ticket prices but nothing about price reductions for children based on age. On the passenger list the ages of my great grandparents are correct and so is the age of their youngest daughter. However, my grandmother and her two older sisters appear on the manifest as younger than their actual ages. Like you, I never asked my grandmother about her journey to the US despite the fact that growing up we lived in the same house with my maternal grandparents until my grandmother's death in 1971. I don't feel too bad about that since she probably didn't have many memories of that journey and since I doubt that her parents would have explained to a 4 year old why they made the transportation choices which they did make.

Hope you and your daughters have a great trip to Ellis Island.

Dave



S.S. Main.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  850.13 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

S.S. Main.jpg



Main2.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  45.47 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

Main2.JPG



Main.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  162.9 KB
 Viewed:  1478 Time(s)

Main.JPG


View user's profile
Send private message
Mary Pate



Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Replies: 56
Location: Overland Park, KS

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:15 pm      Post subject: Emigration Ports
Reply with quote

Dave, Thank you again for more interesting data and the pictures of two of the SS Main. I printed out a picture of the ones my grandparents sailed on SS Lahn and the SS Main "2") They're in my files "somewhere." Nice to see the Main picture again. I have the ship manifests of both sets of my grandparents on my hall walls. Your mind on this is working like mine. Not only the family line but, to me, it's the socio-economic conditions, etc. around them that make these people come alive. Like you, my mom's mother lived with us. Got a lot of that Polish culture and food that way. Have to make pierogis once a year in lent. Interesting that your gr-grandparents came over on a "Main," too.

I am looking both in Wielkopolska area and eastern Galicia area (dad's side). Surprisingly, I can find relatives much further back, definitely sourced, there in Galicia than up north for German controlled Poles. What I mean is, prior to 1800, I see less and less persons with last names listed in records. I can surmise on some but not proven w/o that surname. Have you run into this? This mainly around the Kcynia area. I did further back down around Juncewo and Cerekwica (Znin) areas. I know, early on, they did not like using the last ones.

Just one more thing, what about land records -- have you gotten into that? Enough for now. Just got back from a run north to local cemetery and up to my hometown. Lots and lots of my relatives buried in that one cemetery. Tomorrow, it's east trip to my husband's folks grave.
Thank you,
Mary
View user's profile
Send private message
mbcramer



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Replies: 4
Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:44 pm      Post subject: Re: Immigration Ports
Reply with quote

Don wrote:
Dave,
Thanks for the information. My Father sailed from Bremen on the North German Lloyd liner "Rhein" in 1913. Your post answered my questions also.

Don


Don,
My grandmother and aunt were also on the "Rhein" and arrived at Ellis Island on July 12, 1913. Were our relatives on the same ship or did yours travel at a different time that year?

Marybeth
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Emigration All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2017 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM