Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:15 pm
Post subject: Please Help with Latin First Name
This is for a cousin, and because I am curious...I've attached the birth/baptismal record for Józefa Rykiel. I know that her father was Franciszek (Franciscus), but I can't make out what his father's name is in Latin. I also would like to know what it is in Polish, please, in case I can't find that either.
I know that Franciszek's mother was Jadwiga (Hedwigis), but I'm not sure of her surname. Could it be Rodycz?
I know that Józefa's mother was Magdalena Misiuda, and Magdalena's father was Józef Misiuda, and her mother was Katarzyna (Catharinae). Katarzyna's surname is the hardest for me to make out. Someone has a family tree that has her surname Kendria, but I didn't find that to be a viable Polish surname. Am I wrong? Based on the surname Kendria though, I looked at some Świlcza (where the birth took place) surnames, and thought maybe it could be Kędzia. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Cheri
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Please Help with Latin First Name
Cheri Vanden Berg wrote: | This is for a cousin, and because I am curious...I've attached the birth/baptismal record for Józefa Rykiel. I know that her father was Franciszek (Franciscus), but I can't make out what his father's name is in Latin. I also would like to know what it is in Polish, please, in case I can't find that either.
I know that Franciszek's mother was Jadwiga (Hedwigis), but I'm not sure of her surname. Could it be Rodycz?
I know that Józefa's mother was Magdalena Misiuda, and Magdalena's father was Józef Misiuda, and her mother was Katarzyna (Catharinae). Katarzyna's surname is the hardest for me to make out. Someone has a family tree that has her surname Kendria, but I didn't find that to be a viable Polish surname. Am I wrong? Based on the surname Kendria though, I looked at some Świlcza (where the birth took place) surnames, and thought maybe it could be Kędzia. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Cheri |
Cheri,
No prizes will be given for penmanship in that record. The first letter of the given name is a mess but the remaining letters are legible. They are ...alentini and the only first letter I can think of which makes sense with that sequence is V which would make the name Valentini (the Genitive of Valentinus). The Polish would be Walenty. No guaranties but that is the only name I can think of which makes sense. Kędzia makes sense, but I'm no expert on reading handwritten surnames.
Hope this helps a bit.
Dave
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Dave! This was the only record ONLINE with these parents and grandparents, so yes, I was disappointed with the handwriting! Oh, and Franciszek and Magdalena named a child Walenty (according to the family tree I saw).
Cheri
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:26 pm
Post subject:
Dave,
You were right about Valentini of course ( see attachment). I think I was right about the surname Kędzia. I was definitely wrong about the surname Rodycz. I started thinking that it probably didn't start with an R, because it didn't look like the R in Rykiel, but it wasn't like the priest was consistent with the way he made his letters. Many times he seemed to swoop back on the letters. I had thought the V in Valentini was a D, and I had been looking for Latin names that started with D. I started noticing that his H and K could also look like an R. I now think Jadwiga's last name was Hodyr or Hodyra.
Thanks again,
Cheri
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:08 am
Post subject: Latin Given Name and Polish Surname
Hi Cheri,
The second record you posted definitely confirms the reading of the given name as Valentinus. Your idea regarding Hodyr or Hodyra is worthy of consideration. My expertise is not in determining the handwriting in surnames and, as I’ve mentioned previously, Galicia is the area of Poland with which I’m least familiar. My experience with Galicia comes from helping others in their research, but I’ve found that many of the surnames from Galicia in the 19th Century were not the same as surnames used in the German and the Russian Partitions. Those are the parts of Poland where both my maternal and paternal ancestors lived.
Hoffman refers the reader to surnames beginning in “Ch” for surnames which begin in “H”. (This is because of that pesky aspirate---the letter “H”.) He lists two surnames, Chodur and Chodura/Hodur and Hodura, which I believe are worth considering. In Polish it is not a stretch to hear the letter “y” as a “u”---especially if one does not enunciate clearly. Since many individuals in the 19th Century were illiterate the way surnames were written in registers was dependent on what the priest heard and thus was influenced by enunciation. Last summer I help a grammar school classmate whose ancestors were from Galicia with her genealogy. One of the surnames in her tree was Rolek. That surname at various times appeared as Rollek and Lolek as well as Rolek.
For what it is worth, that is my contribution to the mystery of the surname.
Wishing you success,
Dave
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