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chiguy60



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Replies: 10
Location: Cleveland Oh.

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:41 pm      Post subject: Paulus Alicz
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I'm looking for some help trying to determine the town and parish where my Great Grandfather Paulus Alicz is from.
Attached is a photo I took from a microfilm of my Great Grandparents marriage in the Catholic parish in Wawelno[Lindenwald] Poland from 1853. I know she is from that parish but I am having a hard time identifying where he is from. The picture is not the best because of the reader I was on and am going to try to get a better one.
Thanks for any help.
Bob



Paul and Napumocina Marriage 01.jpg
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Paul and Napumocina Marriage 01.jpg


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PabianAus



Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 96
Location: Australia

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:19 pm      Post subject:
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Bob,
Given that Paulus was 27 at the time of his marriage in 1853, this means that he was born around 1826. Unfortunately the marriage records that you supplied doesn’t seem to indicate the names of his parents or place of birth (the reference to Rogalin is probably his place of residence (a nearby village)), so you have nothing to 100% connect to any birth records you might find. Also, surname spelling is always problematic so I always try variations when searching e.g. Alig, Alecz, Allecz.

Having said all that, there is a birth (record #4 so probably in the month of January) of a Paulus Alecz in 1827 in the town of Polskie Łąki (a town about 45 kms north east of Wąwelno)– father Casimirus/Kazimierz and mother Justina Wyrwicka. LDS microfilms exist. Interestingly, Paulus had a twin sister Marianna (birth record #5).

In 1824 Casimirus and Justina had a child Andreas also in the town of Polskie Łąki but who died aged 4 weeks – death record #18. In 1826 they had still born child – death record #4.

By 1830 they seem to have moved to Rogalin, parish of Więcbork (a town much closer to Wąwelno – Rogalin is just 10 kms to the north of Wąwelno). The village of Rogalin was established in 1826 as part of the break up of part of a large private estate. This was done by the Prussians who controlled this area following the partitioning of Poland in the late 1770s. In the birth records of the children, the father Casimirus’ occupation is listed as colonus which seems to translate as tenant farmer.

There they had 3 children while in Rogalin:
Nicolaus Joannes in 3 Dec 1830 (record #25 - http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/6/363/0/-/1/skan/full/SE3XC0671cdSVJQP1TFdSw )
Margaretha in 1 Jun 1833 (record #20 - http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/6/363/0/-/1/skan/full/cyUIaCR5hnIYpHi6ovsg_Q ) Married in 1851.
Hedvigus in 3 Oct 1836 (record #36 - http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/6/363/0/-/1/skan/full/DNXTUht-D6aYry13sjTsQQ ). Married in 1853.

If I then go to Familysearch and search on Paul Alecz I get a death record for Milwaukee Wisconsin for 9 December 1899, father specified as Kezavier Alecz, mother as Gostana Alecz and spouse as Nepomocyna. Kezavier = Kazimierz/Kazimir ?? Gostana = Justina ???? Spouse name match is 100%. It also specified that his birth date was 21 January 1827, which would be pretty close to birth record #4 for 1827 for Paulus Alecz in Polskie Łąki (mentioned earlier).

If I then go to Ancestry.com and search on Paul Alicz I get a birth date of 21 January 1827 in Kolonia Rogolinska (given that Paul moved there with his parents at a very young age, this would be his understanding of where he was born). There are quite a number of Ancestry Family Tree entries (86) for Paul Alicz. This is probably due to the fact that Paul and Nepomuceno had 8 children (5 in Poland and 3 in Milwaukee) so they would have had a lot of descendants.

No guarantees, but worth exploring the LDS microfilms and getting in contact with people who have submitted their Paul Alicz trees on Ancestry – even though none of them have actually uploaded an image of Paulus’ birth certificate.

All the best
Tom
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Joined: 09 Nov 2012
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Location: Paris, France

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:44 am      Post subject: Rogalin? just few km north of Wąwelno
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Hi,

The line just below Paulus Alicz have the name "Rogalin, parochia". That Rogalin is 4-5 km north of Wąwelno. The name Rogalin has 2 ending letters crossed out. It seems the groom is from Rogalin, 27 years old, and the bride is from Wąwelno, 17 years old (last line of that marriage record).
I am sure that Dave Nowicki could explain that Latin record much more.

Best,
Elzbieta
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PabianAus



Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 96
Location: Australia

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:24 am      Post subject:
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Regarding Nepomucena Polaszyk, there is a birth record for her in Wąwelno in 1835 (birth record #13). Her father is Andreas and mother is Antonina Malinowska. The parents were married in Wąwelno in 1815 (marriage record #8 ). LDS microfilm exists for Wąwelno that covers these years – film number 72033.

All the best
Tom
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chiguy60



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Replies: 10
Location: Cleveland Oh.

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:43 am      Post subject:
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Thank you everyone for your reply's. I currently have the 72033 microfilm on rental and just saw the birth record for Napomucena and also the marriage record for her parents in 1815. Dave has already looked at it and has been most helpful.

Tom, your information is of great help and interest. Hopefully I can locate Paul's birth record on microfilm so I can get a copy of it. The tree information you saw on Ancestry is most likely from my tree ALICZ. I've been doing most of the research on this family. There is one other gentleman also doing research who I've been in contact with and possibly one other person. What's interesting is I actually found a passenger list for a Paul Allecz coming through Quebec in 1866. The family members aren't listed but there is a wife and 5 children. 1 over 10 years old and 4 between 1 and 10 years old. This seems to match up well with the information on their 1870 Milwaukee census which has their last name as Alice.

Thank you again to all for your help.
Bob
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chiguy60



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Replies: 10
Location: Cleveland Oh.

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:07 pm      Post subject:
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PabianAus wrote:
Bob,
Given that Paulus was 27 at the time of his marriage in 1853, this means that he was born around 1826. Unfortunately the marriage records that you supplied doesn’t seem to indicate the names of his parents or place of birth (the reference to Rogalin is probably his place of residence (a nearby village)), so you have nothing to 100% connect to any birth records you might find. Also, surname spelling is always problematic so I always try variations when searching e.g. Alig, Alecz, Allecz.

Having said all that, there is a birth (record #4 so probably in the month of January) of a Paulus Alecz in 1827 in the town of Polskie Łąki (a town about 45 kms north east of Wąwelno)– father Casimirus/Kazimierz and mother Justina Wyrwicka. LDS microfilms exist. Interestingly, Paulus had a twin sister Marianna (birth record #5).

In 1824 Casimirus and Justina had a child Andreas also in the town of Polskie Łąki but who died aged 4 weeks – death record #18. In 1826 they had still born child – death record #4.

By 1830 they seem to have moved to Rogalin, parish of Więcbork (a town much closer to Wąwelno – Rogalin is just 10 kms to the north of Wąwelno). The village of Rogalin was established in 1826 as part of the break up of part of a large private estate. This was done by the Prussians who controlled this area following the partitioning of Poland in the late 1770s. In the birth records of the children, the father Casimirus’ occupation is listed as colonus which seems to translate as tenant farmer.

There they had 3 children while in Rogalin:
Nicolaus Joannes in 3 Dec 1830 (record #25 - http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/6/363/0/-/1/skan/full/SE3XC0671cdSVJQP1TFdSw )
Margaretha in 1 Jun 1833 (record #20 - http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/6/363/0/-/1/skan/full/cyUIaCR5hnIYpHi6ovsg_Q ) Married in 1851.
Hedvigus in 3 Oct 1836 (record #36 - http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/6/363/0/-/1/skan/full/DNXTUht-D6aYry13sjTsQQ ). Married in 1853.

If I then go to Familysearch and search on Paul Alecz I get a death record for Milwaukee Wisconsin for 9 December 1899, father specified as Kezavier Alecz, mother as Gostana Alecz and spouse as Nepomocyna. Kezavier = Kazimierz/Kazimir ?? Gostana = Justina ???? Spouse name match is 100%. It also specified that his birth date was 21 January 1827, which would be pretty close to birth record #4 for 1827 for Paulus Alecz in Polskie Łąki (mentioned earlier).

If I then go to Ancestry.com and search on Paul Alicz I get a birth date of 21 January 1827 in Kolonia Rogolinska (given that Paul moved there with his parents at a very young age, this would be his understanding of where he was born). There are quite a number of Ancestry Family Tree entries (86) for Paul Alicz. This is probably due to the fact that Paul and Nepomuceno had 8 children (5 in Poland and 3 in Milwaukee) so they would have had a lot of descendants.

No guarantees, but worth exploring the LDS microfilms and getting in contact with people who have submitted their Paul Alicz trees on Ancestry – even though none of them have actually uploaded an image of Paulus’ birth certificate.

All the best
Tom


Thanks Tom for your help. I was able to rent a microfilm that had the records from Polskie Laki and found all the records you mentioned above. It looks like Paulus and twin sister Marianna were born in Stazki and baptized in Polskie Laki. Casimirus is listed as Opilio which I believe means Shepherd. Attached is the left side of the ledger record. Below is the right side of the ledger record. I wondering if anyone can read and translate what is all the way to the right of the second page?
Thanks,
Bob



Paulus&Marianna Alecz Birth A.JPG
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Left page of ledger
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Paulus&Marianna Alecz Birth A.JPG


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chiguy60



Joined: 17 Nov 2016
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Location: Cleveland Oh.

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:18 pm      Post subject:
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Here is the right side of the Paulus & Marianna Alecz(Alicz) birth and baptism record. I wondering if anyone can read and translate what is all the way to the right?
Thanks,
Bob



Paulus&Marianna Alecz Birth B.JPG
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Right side of ledger record.
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Paulus&Marianna Alecz Birth B.JPG


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