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Latin records translations
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:12 am      Post subject: Re: Maćczak Births 1809
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[quote="mestanton"]Dave,

Thank you for the Piaski parish 1809 Maćczak births. Now the second atypical birth record makes much more sense that the "director" of the village administered the baptism out of necessity. In the Pisski parish films available online at familysearch.org, I found only one other baptism with this wording. In other parishes, I have seen the midwife administered the emergency baptism.

Your help is so instructive and appreciated.

Wishing you a Happy Easter, too.

Marilyn

Hi Marilyn,

Perhaps a document I read many years ago may help to explain the rare instances you've encountered where someone other than the midwife baptized a child "in extremis". Although usually the midwife was the most qualified person on hand for such a baptism, there actually existed a preferred order of who should preform the baptism. It all depended on who was present at the time. The first preference was that a priest would do the baptism. If no priest were present, next in line would be someone in Major Orders (first a deacon and next a sub-deacon). After that would be someone in Minor Orders (exorcist, acolyte, lector, porter, in descending order). The next choice would be a tonsured cleric who was not yet in Minor Orders. Next would be a Catholic male who was present and then a Catholic female. Last in the pecking order would be a Non-Catholic male followed by a Non-Catholic female. The Non-Catholics did not have to believe in what they were doing. It sufficed that they intended to do what the Catholic Church does when it baptizes someone.

It would seem that the individual in the records you mentioned took precedence over the midwife because he was a male with certain authority in the village and he happened to be present at the moment the baptism needed to take place.

This makes for an interesting glimpse into village life in 1809.

Dave
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:57 pm      Post subject: Re: F/U Płock court records Przedwojewski
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nercell wrote:
Thank you Dave !

It is a bit clearer. Smile

If you would be so kind...

Re-

I- I take it to mean that 'Walenty' is deceased?

II- Regarding inheritance -is the inheritanceo actually parts of Bonkowow village from thier father Jacob?

III-Are Adam Przedwojewski and Walenty Chodubski also deceased?...

Could you please translate this last record in its entirety ?

Dziękuję bardzo

Nancy


Nancy,

To answer your questions: I. Walenty is deceased; II. The inheritance issue deals with “de bonis paternis maternis haeredis (should be spelled heredis)” or in English “concerning the inherited paternal and maternal possessions.” The document does not spell out what was inherited from his father. (Also, Wawrzyniec is already deceased.); III. Adam Predwojewski and Walenty Chadupski are deceased.

Finally, Could you please translate this last record in its entirety ?
I could but… Paenitet me hoc scribere sed istud documentum verbum pro verbo e lingua Latina ad linguam Anglicam reddere nolo. Or to put it in the vernacular, I regret to say that especially at this time of the year I’m not willing to spend the time and effort required to transcribe and translate this document for a number of reasons. They are in no particular order:

It gives me no pleasure to rain on your parade, but the documents you assume to contain a great deal of information are not what you imagine. An analogy which comes to mind is that reading these documents is like opening a book to read a play only to find that the pages are blank with the exception of the final page of the last scene of the final act. This would make it difficult have a genuine understanding of the play. As I said before, these are legal documents produced by an 18th Century court in Poland but they do not contain the entire case file. They only record the final outcome of the legal action and do so in terms so general that the substance of the case is not made clear.

Even if I’m still not sure what I want to do when I grow up, I definitely have no interest in being a lawyer or reading legal documents---especially 300-year-old legal documents. I recognize that these documents interest you, but I find them tedious and other aspects of life are currently making more important demands on my time.

Spring is not the time when a young man’s fancy turns to reading old Latin documents. As the student Latin poetry of the 13th Century put it, when the gentle zephyr heralds the coming of spring the dullness of winter passes, the natural world is renewed and the joys of spring turn a man’s fancy away from books and towards more pleasant pursuits.

The most I am willing to offer you is a summary of the document. The non-specific dispute was between Stanisław Predwojewski, who was the party of the first part and Andrzej Chodupski, the party of the second part. The document employs a number of generic synonyms (as lawyers like to do) to cover all the bases of the dispute without actually spelling out the matter of contention. Then using more generic synonyms, the document states that the dispute is resolved. The two parties sign the document.

Two days of steady rain have provided the incentive to spend time indoors and to compose the response to your questions.

I hope this explanation is sufficient.

Dave
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nercell
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Post Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:53 pm      Post subject: Thankyou
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Thanks so much Dave,

With your help, I have gotten the information that I needed from these old court records, afterall!

Enjoy the garden,

Nancy
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SPG



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Post Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:19 am      Post subject: Catholic Conversion
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Hello --

This record found among a parish's baptisms appears to record Carolina Rosowski's conversion from Lutheranism to Roman Catholicism. While I understand the gist of this record, I do not understand the reference made near the end of it dated 10 SEP 1898. My assumption is that references some episcopal or court record. She's a newcomer to the area (from East Prussia), so I am guessing it has something to do with that, or approval from some episcopal official.

A possible relative's marriage record also includes a extra text after his parents' names that I think has something to do with conversion (from Judaism?), or being baptized outside the parish (i.e., in Saxony).

If someone could help me understand the last bits of these two records, I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance!



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:24 pm      Post subject: Re: Catholic Conversion
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SPG wrote:
Hello --

This record found among a parish's baptisms appears to record Carolina Rosowski's conversion from Lutheranism to Roman Catholicism. While I understand the gist of this record, I do not understand the reference made near the end of it dated 10 SEP 1898. My assumption is that references some episcopal or court record. She's a newcomer to the area (from East Prussia), so I am guessing it has something to do with that, or approval from some episcopal official.

A possible relative's marriage record also includes a extra text after his parents' names that I think has something to do with conversion (from Judaism?), or being baptized outside the parish (i.e., in Saxony).

If someone could help me understand the last bits of these two records, I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance!


Hi,

The sentence at the end of the conversion entry records the fact that the pastor of the parish received delegation to absolve Karoline from what the R.C. Church considered heretical doctrines of the Lutheran Church. Evidently, that absolution was reserved to the bishop. The Council of Trent (1545-1563) was the Roman Catholic Church’s response to the Protestant Reformers. By the time the Council promulgated its decrees the Protestant movement had become divided into a number of groups and thus only some of the decrees referred to beliefs held by Lutherans. The parish priest received delegation to absolve her from heresy on Sept. 10 and the profession of faith (the formal act of conversion) took place on September 24. The reason she simply made a profession of faith rather than being baptized is the Roman Catholics and Lutherans shared common core beliefs regarding baptism so that her Lutheran baptism was recognized by the Catholic Church.

Here follows a translation of the entry.

In the Year of Our Lord 1898 on the 24th day of September 1898: Karolina Rosowska, born February 7, 1874 in Konrady East Prussia renounced the Protestant heresy (Augusburg Confession [i.e. Lutheran]) in which she was born and made a profession (of faith) in the Roman Catholic religion according to the Decree of the Sacred Council of Trent and was received into the Catholic Church and was absolved from heresy. These things were done before me, the pastor delegated for this (act) by the document from the Illustrious Episcopal Chancellor of September 10, 1898.
Zahorow, the 24th day of September, 1898.
Signed: Jozef Nikiel, pastor

Here is a translation of the notation in the marriage record.

Joseph John Isaac (three [given] names) Finder, the son of Wolf Finder and Freidla Finder converted from Judaism (two illegible contracted words) (and) was baptized in Saxony.

There are two contracted words which appear in the baptismal entry the meaning of which I’m not able to determine. Sometimes contractions are difficult to determine as they could vary from place to place and from time to time and even from priest to priest. You were able to determine all the important information in the notation.

I hope that these explanations and translations address your concerns about the two entries.

Sorry that I was not able to determine the meaning of the contractions.

Dave
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SPG



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Post Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 1:11 pm      Post subject: Re: Catholic Conversion
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dnowicki wrote:
SPG wrote:
Hello --

This record found among a parish's baptisms appears to record Carolina Rosowski's conversion from Lutheranism to Roman Catholicism. While I understand the gist of this record, I do not understand the reference made near the end of it dated 10 SEP 1898. My assumption is that references some episcopal or court record. She's a newcomer to the area (from East Prussia), so I am guessing it has something to do with that, or approval from some episcopal official.

A possible relative's marriage record also includes a extra text after his parents' names that I think has something to do with conversion (from Judaism?), or being baptized outside the parish (i.e., in Saxony).

If someone could help me understand the last bits of these two records, I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance!


Hi,

The sentence at the end of the conversion entry records the fact that the pastor of the parish received delegation to absolve Karoline from what the R.C. Church considered heretical doctrines of the Lutheran Church. Evidently, that absolution was reserved to the bishop. The Council of Trent (1545-1563) was the Roman Catholic Church’s response to the Protestant Reformers. By the time the Council promulgated its decrees the Protestant movement had become divided into a number of groups and thus only some of the decrees referred to beliefs held by Lutherans. The parish priest received delegation to absolve her from heresy on Sept. 10 and the profession of faith (the formal act of conversion) took place on September 24. The reason she simply made a profession of faith rather than being baptized is the Roman Catholics and Lutherans shared common core beliefs regarding baptism so that her Lutheran baptism was recognized by the Catholic Church.

Here follows a translation of the entry.

In the Year of Our Lord 1898 on the 24th day of September 1898: Karolina Rosowska, born February 7, 1874 in Konrady East Prussia renounced the Protestant heresy (Augusburg Confession [i.e. Lutheran]) in which she was born and made a profession (of faith) in the Roman Catholic religion according to the Decree of the Sacred Council of Trent and was received into the Catholic Church and was absolved from heresy. These things were done before me, the pastor delegated for this (act) by the document from the Illustrious Episcopal Chancellor of September 10, 1898.
Zahorow, the 24th day of September, 1898.
Signed: Jozef Nikiel, pastor

Here is a translation of the notation in the marriage record.

Joseph John Isaac (three [given] names) Finder, the son of Wolf Finder and Freidla Finder converted from Judaism (two illegible contracted words) (and) was baptized in Saxony.

There are two contracted words which appear in the baptismal entry the meaning of which I’m not able to determine. Sometimes contractions are difficult to determine as they could vary from place to place and from time to time and even from priest to priest. You were able to determine all the important information in the notation.

I hope that these explanations and translations address your concerns about the two entries.

Sorry that I was not able to determine the meaning of the contractions.

Dave


Thank you for the full translations. So much better than my rough approximations. Embarassed
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Podis



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Post Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:42 pm      Post subject: 1869, Jan 10th Wedding Certificate. Polish Catholic (Latin)
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Hello All,

I am Helping my Mother who has hit a road block in the Polish Linage. I have here a wedding certificate from 1869. Most of the Latin that I can read (after doing some serious cleaning on this picture) are written below in blue. So far we are able to find the Witnesses (Adalbertus Dalk; Thomas Novak) and the Bride & Groom (Mariannam Szczepaniak; Martinum Kurzawa). I believe there are some more names (i.e. parents?) that can help unblock our line and hopefully provide more clues. =)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Chris



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Cheri Vanden Berg
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Post Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:17 am      Post subject:
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Could you please translate the words below the names of Franciszek and his father Antoni in this birth record? Thank you!


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:47 am      Post subject: Re: 1869, Jan 10th Wedding Certificate. Polish Catholic (Lat
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Podis wrote:
Hello All,

I am Helping my Mother who has hit a road block in the Polish Linage. I have here a wedding certificate from 1869. Most of the Latin that I can read (after doing some serious cleaning on this picture) are written below in blue. So far we are able to find the Witnesses (Adalbertus Dalk; Thomas Novak) and the Bride & Groom (Mariannam Szczepaniak; Martinum Kurzawa). I believe there are some more names (i.e. parents?) that can help unblock our line and hopefully provide more clues. =)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Chris


Hi Chris,

You did a good job reading some of the text considering that the handwriting is not the best and, more importantly, considering that such records often employ a sort of “shorthand” in which words are contracted/abbreviated. In the transcription the “missing” parts of the words are in parentheses. (Just a quick explanation of why the word you read as “quorum” is actually “quarum”…The relative pronoun has to agree in gender with its antecedent and since “proclamatio” is feminine the pronoun must also appear in its feminine form.) In such short paragraph records no single template was used everywhere. Priests had considerable freedom to compose the text as they saw fit as long as the important information was included. Much of the entry deals with legalities which have no direct impact on genealogy and unfortunately the names of the parents of the couple are not recorded. However, there still are some clues to be found in the record. The ages of the bride and the groom are listed as well as the names of the villages where they resided. A major clue is that the groom was from a neighboring parish---he lived in the village of Rybowo in the parish of Grylewo. On the chance that he had been born and baptized there I checked for his birth record and did locate it. The record contains the names of his parents and is attached. The translation follows after that of the marriage.

The given names are translated into Polish rather than English since that was the version by which the individuals were known.

An important clue about the bride is the fact that she was a widow at the time of this marriage. The Poznań Project site lists two marriages of Maryanna Szczepaniak in the parish of Żoń---this marriage in 1869 and a marriage of Maryanna Szczepaniak to Jakub Kazyak in 1866 (#11). There is a good chance that this is the record of her first marriage. There is a comment from Michele Bender attached to the marriage record you posted which may be helpful to your mother.

The attached map shows the location of the places found in the record.

Here are the transcriptions and translations of the two documents.

Marriage Record
Latin Text: Left Margin: Pawłowo die 31/1
Body of Entry: Praemissis tribus proclamationibus tribus diebus D(omini)cis quarum 1a fuit die 10a Januarii nempe D(omini)ca I post Epipha(niam) et sequentibus D(omini)cis coram populo ad divina* congregato nulloq(ue) imped(imento) detecto Idem benedixi matrimonium inter laboriosos** Martinum Kurzawa juve(nem) de Rybowo Paroch(ia) Gryleviense ubi erat proclamatum an(norum) 28 et Mariannam Szczepaniak vid(uam) an(norum) 30 de Pawłowo. Testes (fuere) Thomas Nowak (et) Adalbertus Dalke et Adalbertus(?) Smigielski.

Translation: Left Margin: Pawłowo on the 31st day of January
Body of Entry: After the three proclamations (of the banns) had been announced on three Sundays, the first of which was on the 10th day of January, namely the First Sunday after Epiphany and on the following Sundays in the presence of the people gathered together for the Divine Rites* and since no impediment had been detected, I, the same (as above), blessed the marriage between the industrious** Marcin Kurzawa, 28 years of age, a single young man from Rybowo in the parish of Grylewo, where (banns also) had been proclaimed and Maryanna Szczepaniak, a widow 30 years of age, from Pawłowo. The witnesses (were) Tomasz Nowak (and) Wojciech Dalke and Wojciech(?) Smigielski.

Notes: *Divina/Divine Rites: Sunday Mass
**laboriosus/industrious: the adjective was used to specify the social status of an individual as a peasant.
The date of the wedding is recorded in the left margin.

Birth & Baptism Record
Grylewo Liber Bapt. 1840 #44 Marcin Kurzawa
Latin Text: 44 Rybowo Anno 1840 die 2 Novembris hora 10 vespere ex Michaele Kurzawa famulo et ex L.C.* Francisca prae Nogal natus est puer quem (idem qui supra) die 8 ejusdem (idem qui supra) baptisavit nomine imposito Martinus. (Patrini) fuere Adalbertus Kobylanski et Anna Jasinska de (omitted place name).

Translation: #44 (Village of) Rybowo: In the year 1840 on the 2nd day of November at the 10th hour in the evening a boy was born of the legitimate marriage* of Michał Kurzawa, a servant, and of Franciszka nee Nogal whom (the same as above) baptized on the 8th day of the same (month & year) having given (him) the name Marcin. (The sponsors) were Wojciech Kobylanski and Anna Jasinska from (omitted place name).

Wishing you and your mother success in your research,

Dave



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 am      Post subject:
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Cheri Vanden Berg wrote:
Could you please translate the words below the names of Franciszek and his father Antoni in this birth record? Thank you!


Hi Cheri,

The word beneath Franciszek is “posthumus” which indicates that he was born after the death of his father. My reading of the word beneath Antoni is “cmeto”, the term used to describe a self-sufficient peasant farmer. (The Polish version is kmiec and there is no single English word which can express the meaning of the word and thus it is translated as "a self-sufficient peasant farmer".) I can’t guarantee that reading because the image is blurred. However, that is what I see.

Hope this helps.

Dave
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Podis



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Post Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:35 am      Post subject: Dave: God Bless You and Yours!
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My Mother is in tears with enjoyment and shock. You did so much more than you had to just out of generosity. Is there any way I can help this cause? Donate to the webpage or an organization in behalf of your work?

If so, Please let me know.

Thanks Again!
Chris
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Post Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:49 am      Post subject:
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Thanks Dave,
Do you have any idea if the reason why Antoni Depa's parents aren't named was because he wasn't living at the time of his son Franciszek's birth?

I have another short translation if you would be kind enough to translate please. Ordinarily I would just guess that Jan Rzucidło died at birth. Looks like the midwife Antonina Tront is reporting it. What is confusing to me is this record is dated 25 Oct 1903, and on 14 Apr 1903 this same couple gave birth to a son
Józef.

Thanks so much for your time,
Cheri



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Post Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:28 am      Post subject:
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Cheri Vanden Berg wrote:
Thanks Dave,
Do you have any idea if the reason why Antoni Depa's parents aren't named was because he wasn't living at the time of his son Franciszek's birth?

I have another short translation if you would be kind enough to translate please. Ordinarily I would just guess that Jan Rzucidło died at birth. Looks like the midwife Antonina Tront is reporting it. What is confusing to me is this record is dated 25 Oct 1903, and on 14 Apr 1903 this same couple gave birth to a son
Józef.

Thanks so much for your time,
Cheri


Hi Cheri,

I believe that the most probable reason that Antoni Depa’s parents are not listed in Franciszek’s birth record is due to who provided the information. Usually the father was the informant but in this case it had to be someone else. The informant/informants most likely were the midwife and/or the baptismal sponsors aka godparents. They probably didn’t know the names of his parents. Keep in mind that the child’s mother usually was not the informant and was not present at the baptism. Despite the urban legends of peasant women working in the fields in the morning, giving birth around noon, and returning to field work in the afternoon usually the mother was not up to going to the parish office to arrange for the baptism so soon after having given birth.

You are correct that the midwife was the informant for the birth of Jan Rzucidlo. Here is the translation of the notation: “He was baptized with water by the midwife, Antonina Tront; he died after one hour.” There would have been no reason for the father to go to the parish to provide the information since there was no need to arrange for the child’s baptism. Since the midwife had baptized the child it would have been her duty to inform the parish priest that the child had been baptized.

I really can’t explain the mystery of a birth of one child in April and of a second child in October. The time frame doesn’t seem to work. It would be completely understandable that the second child would have been premature and thus had to be baptized in danger of death by the midwife but the time for a second pregnancy which resulted in the birth of a living child (although one who probably had no chance for survival) so soon after the first birth is beyond the realms of my medical understanding. Perhaps someone with the necessary medical knowledge could provide enlightenment.

Sorry that I can’t help with that mystery.

Dave
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Post Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:04 pm      Post subject: 1833DeathRecord
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I'm a little confused here guys. Is Maria the wife of Gabrielis, and is she is the one who has died right? Also, what is that cause of death and is the writing across the bottom important? Thanks again!


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Post Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:18 pm      Post subject: Re: 1833DeathRecord
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gpblaney wrote:
I'm a little confused here guys. Is Maria the wife of Gabrielis, and is she is the one who has died right? Also, what is that cause of death and is the writing across the bottom important? Thanks again!


Hi,

Maria is indeed the wife of Gabriel and is the deceased. Gabriel is the same in Latin, English and Polish. The name ends in "is" because that is the Genitive Singular ending. The Genitive is used to show possession, origin, etc. and thus consors Gabrielis is translated as "the consort/wife of Gabriel". The bottom notation is of secondary importance. I assume that this record is from Galicia, as were your previous posts. Based on that assumption here are the translations of the entries in the columns which do not show the headings in your post.

12 Mor. = Date of Death: 12 (month & year should appear earlier on the page)
14 Sepul. = Date of Burial: 14
House Number: 9
The deceased & her status: Maria consors Gabrielis Kozicki = Maria, the consort/wife of Gabriel Kozicki
Religion: Catholic
Gender: Female
Age: 50
Disease/Cause of Death: Tussis = a cough
Notation: She was strengthened with all the Sacraments (i.e. Confession, Communion as Viaticum, & Extreme Unction, now known as the Anointing of the Sick); Niedzielski, the curate, buried her.

Hope this helps you.

Dave
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