SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:51 am
Post subject:
Hi Joseph,
I looked at the church books from which the index at geneteka is derived. I do not see your Bronislaw in 1894 or 1895. I also looked a few years earlier and a few years later and do not see him. Nor do I see a marriage record for his parents Jan and Marianna. It makes me wonder if they started their family elsewhere. I think it would be useful for you to post the images of the 3 baptism records (Aleksander, Zofia and Wanda) on the Russian Records Translation thread of this forum and see if there are clues there. One thing I wonder is what Jan's and Maryanna's ages were because there is quite a gap between 1894-5 and when the other 3 kids were born.
More later when I can,
Sophia
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:10 pm
Post subject:
P.S. I meant to mention that on Aleksander's baptism entry, his mother's name was first given as another name but then corrected to Maryanna Modzelewska. A simple error that was corrected, I suppose.
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Joseph Torolski
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Replies: 27
Location: Wyandotte. MIBack to top |
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:21 pm
Post subject: Bronislaw Turolski
Thanks Again - How do you get to Baptismal records. Genetka has birth, marriages and death records but unless I'm missing something I have not found baptismal records. Then again I'm relatively new at this.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:16 am
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Found them!
Your Jan Tyrolski and Marianna Modzelewska married in the parish of Rzekun (you can find it on a map near Ostroleka) in 1894. The image is here:
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=6&zs=0709d&sy=4000&kt=9&plik=42-43.jpg#zoom=1&x=586&y=641
I would recommend that you ask for a translation of this on the Russian Records Translation 2 thread here on the forum. The indexer has shown Jan Tyrolski's parents as Aleksander Tyrolski and Jozefa Kadlubowska, and Marianna Modzelewska's parents as Adam Modzelewski and Anna Wiechowska. A translation will confirm that, and give you added info.
To answer your other question, what you are calling a birth record is what I am calling a baptism record. Since they are church records, and the church's interest was in recording baptisms, that is what I always call it. In particular places at particular times (described far more eloquently by Dave here on the Latin Translations thread) the church was also the official record keeper for the government and therefore the record also served as a civil birth record.
Best,
Sophia
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PabianAusPO Top Contributor
Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Replies: 181
Location: AustraliaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:42 am
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My very basic Russian indicates that Jan was 27 years old, and Marianna was 18 years old.
Parish records for Rzekuń are held in the Archdiocese Archives in Łomza, for the following years:
Baptisms from 1801. Marriages from 1758. Deaths from 1760.
Tom
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:59 pm
Post subject:
Hi Joseph,
OK, we need to take a breath here. I wonder if there are two couples named Jan and Marianna Torolski/Turolski/Tyrolski.
Here is the thing - - the Wanda Turolska who is baptized in 1909 in Poryte Parish, has a mother named Marianna Modzelewska. The Wanda Turolska who dies in 1910 in Poryte Parish, has a mother named Marianna Wiechowska. So this Wanda #2 and the Bronislaw that I mentioned earlier today, baptized in Rzekun and whose mother was Marianna Wichowska, are surely one family. The other kids (Wanda #1, Zofia, Aleksander, Bronislawa and Stefania) whose mother is Marianna Modzelewska may be another family. You really need translations in order to tease these two families apart, I think.
Best,
Sophia
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:57 am
Post subject:
Hi Joseph,
I decided to go ahead and ask Marcelproust on the Russian Records Translation 2 thread to look at the records and try to determine if it is one family or two.
Best regards,
Sophia
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Joseph Torolski
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Replies: 27
Location: Wyandotte. MIBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:48 am
Post subject: Wedding Picture of Bronislaw Turolski
Attached is the weeding picture of My DziaDzia Bronislaw Turolski and my Busia Busia Mary Ptak. Can anyone recognize the uniform my DziaDzia has on. Some of my family think it may be Russian.
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Joseph Torolski
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Replies: 27
Location: Wyandotte. MIBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:51 am
Post subject: Picture
Sorry the wedding picture posted side ways. Tried three time and each time it was the same.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:20 am
Post subject:
Don't worry, Joe. When I clicked on the photo to open it on my screen, it re-oriented correctly.
Lovely picture!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1533
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:25 pm
Post subject:
Hi Joe,
I spent some time looking at the translations Marcel provided of the church records. I can only conclude that this is one family. Jan Tyrolski and Maryanna Modzelewska (whose mother's maiden name was Wiechowska) lived in Susk and married in the church in Rzekun in 1894. While still in Susk, your grandfather Bronislaw was born (1895), as well as Bronislaw's twin sisters Bronislawa and Stefania (born 1900). After that, the family moved to Dzierzbia and three more children were born, Aleksander (1904), Zofia (1907) and Wanda (1909). Wanda died in 1910. In some cases, where they were recording Maryanna's maiden name, they got it wrong and recorded Wiechowska instead of Modzelewska. I can not think of any other way for the records to make sense. And now you have two more places to add to your list of places - - the birth place of Jan Tyrolski was Troszyn, and the birth place of Maryanna Modzelewska was Czerwin, according to their marriage record.
This is a big step forward.
Best regards,
Sophia
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Joseph Torolski
Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Replies: 27
Location: Wyandotte. MIBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:33 pm
Post subject: Family of Bronislaw Turolski
Sophia
Yes I concur that no doubt it's the same family and yes I have two more places to visit. It's been a great day. Can't wait to get there. Thanks again.
Joe
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