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Latin records translations
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:09 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe


Joe,

Is this death record also from the German Partition? That info will help me to understand the columns.

Thanks.

Dave
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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:22 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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dnowicki wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe


Joe,

Is this death record also from the German Partition? That info will help me to understand the columns.

Thanks.

Dave


Yes, Dave...this would be in the German partition, about 60km west of Łódź.

Thank you!
Joe

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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:26 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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[quote="JGwizdowski"][quote="dnowicki"]
JGwizdowski wrote:
Hello Dave:

From the parish records in Brodnia, I am unable to make out the first name of the father of the deceased. Note that he is listed as organist. I am also unclear regarding the listing for Josephus Koscinski in the far right column and his relationship. I read the mother's name as Agnes Syczbinska ?

You were able to verify that my g.grandfather Anton, and gg.grandfather, Johann, were organists at the church in Bobrowo. I have since worked backward and have found Thomas Koscinski as the organist at Brodnia. My working theory is that Thomas is the father of Johann, and that this record may list Thomas' father, also an organist. The deceased may be Thomas's sibling.

I'm trying to fit the pieces together and make sense and your translation, when you have a chance, will no doubt help immensely.

Thank you!
Joe


Joe,

The priest used an abbreviation/type of shorthand for the name of the father of the deceased. I can think of only 3 masculine names which could possibly be abbreviated that way: Marianus/Marian, Martiannus/Marcjan, and Martinus/Marcin. Personally, I would lean towards Martinus/Marcin.
The only relationship of Józef Kościnski to the deceased which is explicit in the entry is that he was one of the two informants who brought the news of Katarzyna's death to the parish. The record is silent regarding any blood relationship between Józef and Katarzyna.

Anyway, here is the translation:

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the Year): 4
Col. 2: Annus, Mensis et Dies Obitus = Year, Month and Day of Death: January 5, 1823
Col. 3: In quo loco obit = In what place did he/she die: Brudnica
Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Mortui = Given and Surname of the Deceased: Katarzyna Maciejewska nee Kościnska
Col. 5: Aetas Mortui = Age of the Deceased:
Col. 5a: Anni = Years: 48
Col. 5b: Menses = Months: blank
Col. 5c: Dies = Days: blank
Col. 6: Status, Conditio Mortui = State, Condition of the Deceased: Widow
Col. 7: Nomen Patris = Name of the Father: Marcin(?) Kościnski, an organist; Mother: Agnieszka Łyczb(?)inska
Col. 8: Nomen et Cognomen Matris = Given and Surname of the Mother: cf. above
Col. 9: Sexus = Gender
Col. 9a: Masc. = Males
Col. 9a1: Leg. = Legitimate: blank
Col 9 a2: Illeg. = Illegitimate: blank
Col. 9b: Fem. = Females:
Col. 9b1: Leg. = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 9b2: Illeg. = Illegitimate: blank
Col. 10: Morbus ex quo obit = The Disease from which he/she died: Consumption/tuberculosis (of the lungs)
Col. 11 Modus quo rescivit de identitate mortui = The way in which he learned of the identity of the deceased: (From) Jόzef Kościnski, a tenant from Chlewiska(?), Szymon Rutkowski, a shepherd of sheep/cattle from Brudnica
Col. 12: Annus, Mensis, Dies et Locus Sepulturae = The Year, Month, Day and Place of Burial: January 8
Col. 13: Annotationes = Notations: blank

Sorry that this is not much help but it is the total of what is recorded in the entry.

Dave
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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:08 pm      Post subject: Re: 1823 Koscinska death record
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[quote="dnowicki"][quote="JGwizdowski"]
dnowicki wrote:

Joe,

The priest used an abbreviation/type of shorthand for the name of the father of the deceased. I can think of only 3 masculine names which could possibly be abbreviated that way: Marianus/Marian, Martiannus/Marcjan, and Martinus/Marcin. Personally, I would lean towards Martinus/Marcin....

Sorry that this is not much help but it is the total of what is recorded in the entry.

Dave

Dave...
This is all great information! The fact that the deceased's father was an organist make me think this is, indeed, my Koscinski ancestor...perhaps the first of 4 generations of church organists!

I really appreciate the work you put in to translating this. I know the script was quite a challenge!

Now I need to figure out where to go next! Smile

Thank you!
Joe

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JGwizdowski



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:40 pm      Post subject: Lizak and Bzdziuch death records
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Greetings!

I have such a difficult time with this heavy inked script. If only the priests had used block letters!

There are two back to back records from the Austrian district in 1890...as best I can make out the first record is...
Joannes Lizak, -wife Sophia Januk. - age 56 years. - Pneumonia [in Wólka Grodziska]

The next record is...
Aldabertus Bzdziuch, -wife Maria Majewin. - age 37 years, (can't make out cause of death) [in Wólka Grodziska]

I would be greatly appreciative if you would cast your well trained eyes on these two records and let me know what I have missed, and what I have gotten wrong. My reading of the given names of the deceased, and the spouses given and surnames are of particular interest.

Thank you VERY much!
Joe



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: 7 Days ago at 2:43 pm      Post subject: Re: Lizak and Bzdziuch death records
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

I have such a difficult time with this heavy inked script. If only the priests had used block letters!

There are two back to back records from the Austrian district in 1890...as best I can make out the first record is...
Joannes Lizak, -wife Sophia Januk. - age 56 years. - Pneumonia [in Wólka Grodziska]

The next record is...
Aldabertus Bzdziuch, -wife Maria Majewin. - age 37 years, (can't make out cause of death) [in Wólka Grodziska]

I would be greatly appreciative if you would cast your well trained eyes on these two records and let me know what I have missed, and what I have gotten wrong. My reading of the given names of the deceased, and the spouses given and surnames are of particular interest.

Thank you VERY much!
Joe


Joe,

The things you did not include are the house numbers where the deaths took place and the notation that the same priest listed above did the funeral. I imagine that you didn't overlook the house numbers. They could be helpful when putting everything together. The name of the priest is not genealogically significant.

I read the first record as "Jan Lizak, husband of Zofia Janusz" (rather than Januk). I just don't see the last letter as "k". You are correct that he died of pneumonia and was 57 years old.

I read the second entry as "Wojciech Bzdziuch, husband of Maria Majowicz." I see his age more as 57 rather than 37. The first number looks to me more like a sloppy 5 than a 3---especially when compared with the number 3 in the final entry in the cropped post. A very effective way to determine letters and numbers when they are not immediately clear and certain is to compare what is written with other entries in the same handwriting on the page. If a word is well recognized then the letters in that word can serve as a guide for determining letters in words which are not immediately familiar. I use the Latin words in that way to determine letters in surnames which are not familiar to me. Of course that method does not work so well if one does not know what the Latin should be. In that case, well recognized given names should work for letter comparison. My recommendation would be to use that method with the numbers 3 & 5 and see which number looks more like what you see in his age.

Wojciech died of hydrops, which was also known as dropsy and currently would be referred to as edema. The disease results in a build up of fluids in tissues and bodily cavities.

If you have difficulty reading the cursive in the records just imagine what it will be like for kids who are currently in grammar school now since many/most? schools no longer teach cursive.

Don't forget to keep practicing your cursive reading skills.

Dave
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larodkey



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Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:47 am      Post subject: Marriage Record Translation
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Hi,

Finally got hold of a record of my great grandfather. Would love to be able to receive a translation on this marriage record. Not sure if this is the right place to post, if not let me know.

The part I would love to have translated is line 11 (top 4 lines) I believe the first line is October.
People involved are Radke and Nowacki.

I would also like to know the title of this document (very top centered)

Thanks so much in advance.

Larry Rodkey (Radke)



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:52 am      Post subject: Re: Marriage Record Translation
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larodkey wrote:
Hi,

Finally got hold of a record of my great grandfather. Would love to be able to receive a translation on this marriage record. Not sure if this is the right place to post, if not let me know.

The part I would love to have translated is line 11 (top 4 lines) I believe the first line is October.
People involved are Radke and Nowacki.

I would also like to know the title of this document (very top centered)

Thanks so much in advance.

Larry Rodkey (Radke)


Larry,

This is the right place to post your translation request.

The heading at the top of the page is a description of the subject matter of the entries in that section of the page. The translation is: “Continuation of the register of marriages (for) 1851”. There is another heading after entry #16 which describes the subject matter of the remaining entries in the page: “Register of the deceased (for) 1851.

Here is the translation of the record. The entry is short and only contains the basic facts of the marriage.

Hope this helps you.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

Translation:

Above body of entry: October

Far left column: 11 (The number of the marriage celebrated in the parish in the year 1851.)

Col. 2: Biała; October12 (Place & date of wedding.)

Body of entry: After the banns had been promulgated, the one (named) before [i.e. the priest named in earlier entries] blessed the marriage contracted between the single young man Teofil (Polish)/Theophil (English) Radke, 24 years of age, and the maiden Rozalia (Polish)/Rosalie (English) Nowacki, 23 years of age. The witnesses were Michał/Michael Majorowicz (or Majorawicz) and Piotr/Peter Nowacki.
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mhofmann



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Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:03 am      Post subject: translation request
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May I please have a translation of these three records? Many thanks!


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larodkey



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Post Posted: 22 hours ago at 5:39 am      Post subject: Re: Marriage Record Translation
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dnowicki wrote:
larodkey wrote:
Hi,

Finally got hold of a record of my great grandfather. Would love to be able to receive a translation on this marriage record. Not sure if this is the right place to post, if not let me know.

The part I would love to have translated is line 11 (top 4 lines) I believe the first line is October.
People involved are Radke and Nowacki.

I would also like to know the title of this document (very top centered)

Thanks so much in advance.

Larry Rodkey (Radke)


Larry,

This is the right place to post your translation request.

The heading at the top of the page is a description of the subject matter of the entries in that section of the page. The translation is: “Continuation of the register of marriages (for) 1851”. There is another heading after entry #16 which describes the subject matter of the remaining entries in the page: “Register of the deceased (for) 1851.

Here is the translation of the record. The entry is short and only contains the basic facts of the marriage.

Hope this helps you.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

Translation:

Above body of entry: October

Far left column: 11 (The number of the marriage celebrated in the parish in the year 1851.)

Col. 2: Biała; October12 (Place & date of wedding.)

Body of entry: After the banns had been promulgated, the one (named) before [i.e. the priest named in earlier entries] blessed the marriage contracted between the single young man Teofil (Polish)/Theophil (English) Radke, 24 years of age, and the maiden Rozalia (Polish)/Rosalie (English) Nowacki, 23 years of age. The witnesses were Michał/Michael Majorowicz (or Majorawicz) and Piotr/Peter Nowacki.



Dave, thanks so much for the quick reply. It was so frustrating finally receiving records, but finding out they couldn't be read. Thanks again. When you get a moment I have another record. Not sure if it is a State Record or Church Record? Can you tell? I would love to know where they lived, but would be really appreciative if you had the time to give me all the details about this record. Thanks again ...Larry Rodkey (Radke)



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Last edited by larodkey on 22 hours ago at 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: 7 hours ago at 8:41 pm      Post subject: Re: Marriage Record Translation
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larodkey wrote:


Dave, thanks so much for the quick reply. It was so frustrating finally receiving records, but finding out they couldn't be read. Thanks again. When you get a moment I have another record. Not sure if it is a State Record or Church Record? Can you tell? I would love to know where they lived, but would be really appreciative if you had the time to give me all the details about this record. Thanks again ...Larry Rodkey (Radke)


Hi Larry,

In the German Partition (Prov. of Posen/Poznań) civil records were transcripts of religious records until 1874. The civil records were copies of parish records made by priests and Protestant ministers and were kept in Latin and/or German. During that era it was difficult to distinguish one from the other. I find that a convenient guide for determining which was which is to check the film notes to learn where the original record was housed. Generally, films made in National Archives were civil copies and films made in religious archives were ecclesiastical records. In 1874, after the unification of the German state, the system changed. Free-standing civil registry offices not tied to a particular denomination were set up by the German government. Such offices were responsible for the keeping of civil records. The Catholic and the Lutheran Churches continued to keep records in the same format which was used prior to 1874 but those records no longer had the status of being considered civil transcripts. Since the marriage record is from 1878 it would not be a civil record. Attached is a copy of the civil record as well as a link to where the record is found. Here is the link to the civil marriage record:
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/55/531/0/2/14/skan/full/PrF2yq5HtYcN5u02AZGd3Q
The civil record is in German, which is not my forte. However, a couple of years ago Elżbieta was kind enough to post a link to an interlinear version of the form in German and Polish and thus I do know what the form is saying. My maternal grandmother and her family were from the Prov. of Poznań so. For example, I have both her Latin birth & baptism record and the German civil record. I’ve found that the Latin record usually contains more useful information than the civil record. However, that depends on how detail oriented the priest was who kept the religious record.

In the case of the marriage record you posted both the religious and the civil records contain the same information regarding the place of residence of the groom. He was living in Wymistowo (current spelling is Wymystowo). There are several places of that name in what was the Prov. of Poznań so it will take more research on your part to determine which was the correct one (unless the handwritten German specifies which Wymistowo it was). However, the civil record does provide the additional information of where he was born---Radolin as well as his date of birth. (The Latin does not give a specific date but only records his age.) The civil record does also contain the signatures of the bride and the groom at the end of page 2. I’m sure that if you post a request for a translation of the civil record in the German Records Translation section of the forum Michael will provide you with a complete translation of the record.

Here is the translation of the Latin marriage record. I devised a template for translating such records which contains the Latin & the English translation of the headings. It makes things a lot easier to just fill in the info without constantly having to retype the headings. Here it is:
Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the year): 12

Col. 2: Annus et Dies Copulationis = Year and Day of the Marriage: November 10, 1878

Col. 3: Nomen Scerdotis Copulantis = Name of the Priest Marrying (the Couple): The same as above

Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Copulatorum, locus habitationis, conditio et professio et utrum copulatio in ecclesia vel in aedibus privatis subsecuta = The first and surnames of those marrying, (their) place of residence, condition/status/occupation and profession and whether the marriage followed in a church or in private building (literally: halls): Andrzej/Andrew, the son of Gottlieb Radke and of Rozalia/Rosalie Nowicka from Wymisłowo and Cecylia/Cecilia, a maiden, the daughter of Józef/Joseph Brzezinski and Elżbieta/Elizabeth Florek from Brzostowo, married in the church.

Col. 5: Utrum in matrimonio jam vixere nec non utrum sub tutela parentum vel tutorum adhoc existant = Whether they (i.e. the contracting parties) have already lived in marriage (i.e. whether one or both had been married previously) or if not whether to this point they lived under the charge of their parents or guardians: Both single

Col. 6: Aetas = Age
Col. 6a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: 23
Col. 6b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: 20

Col. 7: Religio = Religion
Col. 7a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: Catholic
Col. 7b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: Catholic

Col. 8: Consensus Parentum vel Tutorum = The Consent of the Parents or the Guardians: Civil permission dated November 9 (1878)

Col. 9: Proclamatio Banorum = Announcement of the Banns: October 20 & 27, & November 1

Col. 10: Dispensatio a proclamatione = Dispensation from announcement/announcements (of the banns): None

Col. 11: Testes = Witnesses: Antoni/Anthony St???ynski (&) Andrzej/Andrew Steg??cki

Col. 12: Adnotationes = Notations: blank

The attached map shows his place of birth and the place where the marriage took place.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave



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