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German records translations
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mcdonald0517
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Joined: 27 May 2012
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:38 pm      Post subject:
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Hello Michael,

I am hoping you can help me with this. I am trying to determine if this 1821 marriage record is for my ancestor or not. I am beginning to doubt that it is, but I am not sure. My ancestor is:

Michael Radziminski (also spelled Radziminsky):
Born 1799 in Skottau (now Szkotowo), baptised in Evangelical Church (I have his birth record)
parents: Michael Radziminski ("adel. einsasser" is always associated with his name on all records - still don't fully understand what it means) and mother is Gottlieba geb. Barloszewski
Died 1838 and buried in Skottau (now Szkotowo) (I have his death record which only lists his two sisters as surviving, so I am not sure if this means he died unmarried with no children. It would be unusual for him to die at age 38 and have no wife or children surviving him.)

Attached is the 1821 marriage record for a Michael Radziminsky to Ewa Malonek. The spelling of the surname is a bit different than my ancestor in this record (although I have found other records for Michael and Ewa and the spelling is Radziminski in two of them). Also, I can see the name Matthias Radziminsky in the record, but I am not sure who this is. If Mattias is his father, then it is not my Michael. My ancestor and this Michael have very close birth years. Also, Nidzica is very close to Szkotowo. That is my confusion about this record. I am hoping your translation will clear this up.

I am including the left and right side of the record in case there are clues on both pages.

Many thanks!
Cynthia



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Kmichael8



Joined: 28 Dec 2016
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:46 am      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Hello Michael,

I am hoping you can help me with this. I am trying to determine if this 1821 marriage record is for my ancestor or not. I am beginning to doubt that it is, but I am not sure. My ancestor is:

Michael Radziminski (also spelled Radziminsky):
Born 1799 in Skottau (now Szkotowo), baptised in Evangelical Church (I have his birth record)
parents: Michael Radziminski ("adel. einsasser" is always associated with his name on all records - still don't fully understand what it means) and mother is Gottlieba geb. Barloszewski
Died 1838 and buried in Skottau (now Szkotowo) (I have his death record which only lists his two sisters as surviving, so I am not sure if this means he died unmarried with no children. It would be unusual for him to die at age 38 and have no wife or children surviving him.)

Attached is the 1821 marriage record for a Michael Radziminsky to Ewa Malonek. The spelling of the surname is a bit different than my ancestor in this record (although I have found other records for Michael and Ewa and the spelling is Radziminski in two of them). Also, I can see the name Matthias Radziminsky in the record, but I am not sure who this is. If Mattias is his father, then it is not my Michael. My ancestor and this Michael have very close birth years. Also, Nidzica is very close to Szkotowo. That is my confusion about this record. I am hoping your translation will clear this up.

I am including the left and right side of the record in case there are clues on both pages.

Many thanks!
Cynthia


Hello Cynthia,

I fear this it not your ancestor. 23 years old Michael was the only son of his already deceased father Mathias. The mother isn’t mentioned in the record. Michael’s profession is hard to read and looks like “Sxxxdermeister”. That might be a “Schneidermeister” (a tailor). Anyhow, the suffix “-meister” indicates that Michael was a craftsman, not a farmer. As groom and bride were under age, most of the record deals with the question whether they have the consent to marry – they had.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Michael
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:31 pm      Post subject:
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Hello Michael,

Thank you so much for your translation. Yes, it does help because it clears my confusion. Knowing it is NOT my ancestor saves me the time of chasing down the wrong path!

Thank you again!
Cynthia
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:54 pm      Post subject:
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Hello again, Michael,

I think I may have found a birth record for a sibling of my 2nd great grandfather, Andreas Krueger. This would be an important find for me, because it would be the first birth record I have found for the Krueger family in Frankenau. I think this 1821 record is for the birth of Johann who could be the brother of Andreas if the parents in this record match up with the parents of Andreas: Gotfried and Gottlieba Krueger. I think I see a match in the names of the parents, but am unsure.

Can you please confirm / deny the match of parent names? Also, if it is a match, then please translate the entire record.

I am including an image of the full page as well as a close up of line item 10 on the page.

Thank you so much for all of your help. I would still be facing a brick wall with this branch of my family if it wasn't for your generous translation help.

All the best,
Cynthia



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Kmichael8



Joined: 28 Dec 2016
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:08 am      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Hello again, Michael,

I think I may have found a birth record for a sibling of my 2nd great grandfather, Andreas Krueger. This would be an important find for me, because it would be the first birth record I have found for the Krueger family in Frankenau. I think this 1821 record is for the birth of Johann who could be the brother of Andreas if the parents in this record match up with the parents of Andreas: Gotfried and Gottlieba Krueger. I think I see a match in the names of the parents, but am unsure.

Can you please confirm / deny the match of parent names? Also, if it is a match, then please translate the entire record.

I am including an image of the full page as well as a close up of line item 10 on the page.

Thank you so much for all of your help. I would still be facing a brick wall with this branch of my family if it wasn't for your generous translation help.

All the best,
Cynthia


Hello Cynthia,

What I can offer, given the quality of these documents and the mix of German and Latin words in it, is some reading and some guessing: The father’s name is Krüger, Friedrich B(something), the mother’s name is Gottliebe, the child Johann was born on the 3rd of March and baptized in the same month. Two godparents (Testes) are named, the second one is Gottfried S[xxx]oska.

As you are looking for the couple of Gottfried and Gottliebe, it seems as if this is not your family.

Best regards,
Michael
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:55 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you, Michael. I appreciate your help. I know the quality of the record is bad (hard to read reverse colors); unfortunately, it was the only record available.

Even though this is not my ancestor, it is still the first record with the Krueger surname I have found in Fraknowo (Frankenau) Evangelical Records. It is at least evidence that a Krueger family lived in that village. That gives me hope!

Thank you again!
Cynthia
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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:43 am      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Thank you, Michael. I appreciate your help. I know the quality of the record is bad (hard to read reverse colors); unfortunately, it was the only record available.

Even though this is not my ancestor, it is still the first record with the Krueger surname I have found in Fraknowo (Frankenau) Evangelical Records. It is at least evidence that a Krueger family lived in that village. That gives me hope!

Thank you again!
Cynthia


Cynthia,

You're welcome.

Just some additional remarks regarding "Krüger", maybe you already know about. "Krüger" (or the dialect version "Kröger") was and still is one of the most common names in Northern Germany describing a profession, i.e. someone who owned or rented a "Krug" meaning a pub or an inn. Accordingly in other parts of Germany like Hessia the name is not "Krüger" but "Krug". There was at least one "Krug" in nearly every village, so you will find a lot of "Krüger" that have no further relationship to your family.

As I am a "Krüger" too, I have an idea of the challenge you face.

Best Regards,
Michael
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:29 pm      Post subject:
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Thanks again, Michael. I knew a little about the name Krueger, but your explanation adds to my knowledge. Given this information, it makes me wonder if the word "krueger" in the record refers to the surname of the father or his occupation?
How would one know the difference when looking at a birth record written in German script?

Cynthia
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BobK
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
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Location: Portland, Oregon USA

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:24 pm      Post subject:
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I was curious about the percentage of Germans in Poland and found a graphic that shows that.

For those wondering why the interest in German Translations -- (Many of my own ancestors records are in Russian and Polish, with only a few older ones in German) -- here's the graphic from Wikipedia showing the percentages of native German speakers in Poland in 1931 along with a map of the Commonwealth of Poland in 1930



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tkowalska
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:17 am      Post subject: George Diesing, Lidzbark Welski, 1807
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Hello Michael! I hope this finds you well. I have located two generations of George Diesings in Lidzbark, aka Lautenburg, and one is definitely a direct ancestor. The entry at the bottom of this record is the first of the two. I can make out the 7 Feb. 1807 date of death and the name Lovisa/Louisa (Dultkin?) (wife?), but my efforts to plug other words into the translator have not been good--I must still not be reading some of the letters right. Thank you so much for any help you can provide. Best from Tonya


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tkowalska
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:25 am      Post subject: George Diesing, Lidzbark Welski, d. 1876
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Dear Michael, this is the second George Diesing, also in Lidzbark/Lautenburg. He is definitely the father of the Josephine Diesing you helped me with earlier, so there could be military and pensioner references here again. Given that he was 89 and I don't see a spouse's name, perhaps he was already a widower as well.

I can read the date and place (Zalesie, a nearby village), but my efforts at the rest are again subpar. I did not include the second page because the file size is so big, but it included Josephine's married name and her sister's as well. Many, many thanks -- I'm so interested to see what it says. The Diesings are our last brick wall and the only German ancestors, so this is all very new. With gratitude, ~Tonya.



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larodkey



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
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Location: Ashland MA

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:32 pm      Post subject: German Marriage Record Translation
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Hi Michael,

Dave Nowicki pointed me in your direction to see if you could translate a record I recently obtained. I saw some outstanding previous work in the previous pages in this forum and was hoping you could do the for me.

I too would love if you had the time to include a typed version of all the German text, including the text on the form?
I would appreciate if very much.

Larry Rodkey (Radke)



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Larry Rodkey
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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:15 am      Post subject:
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mcdonald0517 wrote:
Thanks again, Michael. I knew a little about the name Krueger, but your explanation adds to my knowledge. Given this information, it makes me wonder if the word "krueger" in the record refers to the surname of the father or his occupation?
How would one know the difference when looking at a birth record written in German script?

Cynthia


Cynthia,

I thought for a while about your question on how to tell “an occupation used as an occupation” from “an occupation used as a name”.

You will find quite a number of names that have a more or less visible origin in an occupation. Müller, Bäcker, Schmied or Krüger are examples, to name but a few. Unfortunately, you will also find a lot of different ways, entries in a church book were written, starting with the occupation, starting with the name, providing no occupation at all and so on.

What I think will work as a rule of thumb to tell an occupation from a name is “Vorname vor Name”, using the German meaning of “Vorname” i.e. the Christian name as the name that is put in front of the [family] name. So if you find a “Krüger”, please check if there is a Christian name in front of it, then it is highly probable that you found a family name and vice versa.

Best regards,
Michael
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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:37 am      Post subject: Re: George Diesing, Lidzbark Welski, 1807
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tkowalska wrote:
Hello Michael! I hope this finds you well. I have located two generations of George Diesings in Lidzbark, aka Lautenburg, and one is definitely a direct ancestor. The entry at the bottom of this record is the first of the two. I can make out the 7 Feb. 1807 date of death and the name Lovisa/Louisa (Dultkin?) (wife?), but my efforts to plug other words into the translator have not been good--I must still not be reading some of the letters right. Thank you so much for any help you can provide. Best from Tonya


Hello Tonya,

The German version of the text is:

Lautenburg George Diesing 65 Jahr alt
Polizey Bürger Meister gewesen hierselbst gewesener
Ehemann der Louisa geb. Dultkin ist den 7ten Februar
1807 vormittags um 9 Uhr am Geschwür zum Halse
und dem kalten Brandt gestorben und den 11ten still
begraben

George Diesing died, 65 years old, on February 7, 1807 at 9 o’clock a.m. He was “Polizey Bürgermeister”, i.e. member of the magistrate responsible for police affairs in Lautenburg and husband of the already deceased Louisa born Dultkin. The illness that caused his death was “kalter Brandt”, an infectious disease that is usually rapid and fatal. He was buried on February 11: “still begraben” has different meanings. I believe the most probable is that he was buried without a priest being present. You can find the same remark in the other entries of that page too.

Best regrards
Michael
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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:30 am      Post subject: Re: German Marriage Record Translation
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larodkey wrote:
Hi Michael,

Dave Nowicki pointed me in your direction to see if you could translate a record I recently obtained. I saw some outstanding previous work in the previous pages in this forum and was hoping you could do the for me.

I too would love if you had the time to include a typed version of all the German text, including the text on the form?
I would appreciate if very much.

Larry Rodkey (Radke)


Larry,

Please find attached the German as well as the English version of your document.

Regards
Michael

The German version, page 1 (the line break is according to the original):

B Nr. 17
Friedheim am neunten
November tausend acht hundert siebenzig und acht.
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute zum
Zweck der Eheschließung:
1. der Arbeiter Andreas Radke
der Persönlichkeit nach
bekannt
katholischer Religion, geboren den achtzehnten
November des Jahres tausend acht hundert
fünfzig und vier zu Radolin
Kreis Czarnikau, wohnhaft zu Wymislowo
Kreis Wirsitz
Sohn des zu Steinach verstorbenen Häuslers
Gottlieb Radke und dessen Ehefrau
Rosalie Nowacka
zu Wymislowo
2. die Jungfrau Caecilie Brzezin-
ska
der Persönlichkeit nach
bekannt,
katholischer Religion, geboren den vierzehn-
ten Mai des Jahres tausend acht hundert
fünfzig und sieben zu Brostowo,
wohnhaft zu Brostowo
Tochter der zu Brostowo verstorbenen
Einlieger Joseph Brzezinska und dessen
Ehefrau Elisabeth geborene Florek wohnhaft
zu Brostowo

Page 2

Als Zeugen waren zugezogen und erschienen:
3. der Bürger Peter Tilson
der Persönlichkeit nach
bekannt
fünfundvierzig Jahre alt, wohnhaft zu Friedheim
4. der Stellmacher Michael Fausch
der Persönlichkeit nach
bekannt,
vier und fünfzig Jahre alt, wohnhaft zu Brostowo

In Gegenwart der Zeugen richtete der Standesbeamte an
die Verlobten einzeln und nach einander die Frage:
ob sie erklären, daß sie die Ehe mit einander eingehen wollen.
Die Verlobten beantworteten diese Frage bejahend und erfolgte
hierauf der Ausspruch des Standesbeamten, daß er sie nunmehr
kraft des Gesetzes für rechtmäßig verbundene Eheleute erkläre.

Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben
Radke Andreas
Caecilie Brzezinska
Peter Tilson
Michael Fausch
Der Standesbeamte.
Malkowski [?]


The English version, page 1

B No. 17
Friedheim on November 9, 1878
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today for the purpose of marriage:
1. the laborer Andreas Radke of known identity, of Catholic religion, born on November 18, 1854 in Radolin, Kreis Czarnikau, residing in Wymislowo [also written Wymyslowo, 1903/1908 integrated into Niezychowo], Kreis Wirsitz, son of the cottager Gottlieb Radke, deceased in Steinach, and his wife Rosalie Nowacka in Wymislowo
2. the maiden Caecilie Brzezinska of known identity, of Catholic religion, born on May 14, 1857 in Brostowo, residing in Brostowo, daughter of the Einlieger [a farmhand who has no house of his own but rents] Joseph Brzezinska, deceased in Brostowo, and his wife Elisabeth born Florek, residing in Brostowo

Page 2

The following were present and appeared as witnesses:
3. the resident Peter Tilson of known identity, 45 years old, residing in Friedheim
4. the cartwright Michael Fausch of known identity, 54 years old, residing in Brostowo

In the presence of the witnesses the registrar put to each of the betrothed in turn the question: whether they were willing to enter into marriage with one another. The betrothed answered this question in the affirmative, whereupon the registrar pronounced that by virtue of the Civil Code they were henceforth legally joined in marriage.

Read aloud, authorized and signed
Radke Andreas [the signatures of spouse and bride are hard to read and do not fit one to one to the names the registrar noted]
Caecilie Brzezinska
Peter Tilson
Michael Fausch
The Registrar.
Malkowski [?]
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