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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:47 am      Post subject: Decipher town names on passenger lists
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Would greatly appreciate help in deciphering the town names listed on both Hamburg departure list, and NY arrival lists. I'm trying to track my grandmother's movement from the Sawilno, where she was born in 1887.

The Hamburg list looks to be Pyskowo, while the NY arrival list appears to be Sypkowo. Here name appears on both as Helena Dudzinska.

I cannot find either variation or anything close and hope that those of you more familiar with Polish geography can shed some light.

Thank you so much!
Joe



Helena Dudzinski NY Arriaval 1906.jpg
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Helena Dudzinski Hamburg Departure 1906.jpg
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:13 am      Post subject: Re: Decipher town names on passenger lists
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Would greatly appreciate help in deciphering the town names listed on both Hamburg departure list, and NY arrival lists. I'm trying to track my grandmother's movement from the Sawilno, where she was born in 1887.

The Hamburg list looks to be Pyskowo, while the NY arrival list appears to be Sypkowo. Here name appears on both as Helena Dudzinska.

I cannot find either variation or anything close and hope that those of you more familiar with Polish geography can shed some light.

Thank you so much!
Joe


Joe,

The village is Pyszkowo, which was, and is, in the parish of Chodecz. On the attached map Sawilno is the blue circle underlined in black.

Since some of my paternal ancestors were born in Pyszkowo, once upon a time I searched for pictures of the village. One attached photo is a view of the contemporary village and the other is of a forest near the village.
I attached the in case you may find them useful.

Wishing you success in your quest,

Dave



Las nie daleko od Pyszkowa.jpg
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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:58 pm      Post subject:
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Dave...thank you so very much. As always, the information and knowledge you have to share is of great help and very much appreciated!

I'm trying to circle-in on my grandmother's marriage record. As far as searching online records, would Zgłowiączka be the province to be looking at? I'm not finding anything specific to Pyszkowo.

Thanks again!
Joe

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:54 am      Post subject:
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Dave...thank you so very much. As always, the information and knowledge you have to share is of great help and very much appreciated!

I'm trying to circle-in on my grandmother's marriage record. As far as searching online records, would Zgłowiączka be the province to be looking at? I'm not finding anything specific to Pyszkowo.

Thanks again!
Joe


Joe,

That Helena was living in Pyszkowo before she left Poland may or may not give you some direction regarding where she and Wincenty were married. All that Pyszkowo being her last place of residence in Poland tells you is that was where she was living in 1906 before she left for the US. Since many peasants in Russian Poland did not own land it was common for families to live as tenants in houses they did not own. After Wincenty left for America she probably had no way of supporting herself on her own and thus would have lived in someone’s house. Perhaps she lived with Wincenty’s relatives or perhaps with her own relatives. She may have been living with friends. All that says nothing about where the marriage took place. As you know, Catholic marriages ordinarily took place in the parish of the bride which may or may not be the parish where the couple lived after the wedding. Since she was 19 when she arrived in NY in June of 1906, the wedding certainly could not have taken place before 1903 when she would have been sixteen.

If she was living in Sawilno when she married, the marriage would have taken place in Zgłowiączka. It does not appear that this was the case since a Geneteka search yields no results. The records for that parish are well indexed. I know that since my paternal grandparents were married there in 1903 and a paternal uncle was married there in 1908 and both those marriages are now indexed on Geneteka. If she was living in Pyszkowo at the time of the marriage, the wedding would have taken place in the parish of Chodecz since that was the parish to which Pyszkowo belonged. The records for Chodecz are found on https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ The indexed records for that parish do not cover the years of the 20th Century so you have to use the biblical method of locating such records --- seek and ye shall find. The good news is that marriages in Chodecz are internally indexed within the books for each year. The downside is that the indexes are in Russian, although the names of the parties are recorded in both Russian and in Polish within the text of the record itself. I took a quick look at marriages in Chodecz for 1905 & 1906 but did not find her marriage there. I suppose it is possible that the marriage took place in Chodecz in either 1904 or 1903, but I didn’t check those years.

The wedding may have taken place in one of the nearby parishes since the village where she was living at the time of the wedding may have been part of a neighboring parish. Parishes between Zgłowiączka and Chodecz are: Lubraniec, Boniewo, Kłóbia, Lubomin, and Choceń. Of course, there are parishes near where she was born which are to the west and southwest, but, in my opinion, those would be worth searching if the first bunch yields no results. Indexes on Geneteka cover some of the parishes for the likely years, and the records of all those parishes are on https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/

Hope this gives you some ideas about where to direct your search.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I’ll be happy to share whatever pertinent information I may have.

Dave
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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:45 am      Post subject:
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Dave...thank you, again, for your very helpful insight. My grandmother, Helena, has always been an enigma. Born Dudczak in 1887, her father died when she was 9 and I believe her mother died by the time Helena was in her early teens, and my working theory is that Helena was taken in by an aunt who married a Budzynski. Helena's brother, Wincenty, arrived in America as Dudzinski, but adopted the Budzinski name some time after he emigrated to America, and Helena, by 1914, was claiming Budzinski was her maiden name.

It all gets very confusing, but when Helena arrived in America in 1906, her papers said she was going to her husband, Wincenty, in Niagara Falls. Wincenty is her brother. On her detention papers, it says she is waiting for the train to take her to her brother, Wincenty, in Niagara Falls. This, in spite of the fact that my grandfather was already in NYC, meeting up with Helena's brother, Antoni in 1905.

Both my grandmother Helena, and grandfather Edward Zecman, claimed to be married on their arrival papers, though Helena was using the name Dudzinska. I have them both placed in Brooklyn in 1907 with the birth of their daughter, where Helena lists her married name as Zecman and maiden name as Dudzinska. To complicate things further, I have a marriage record for Helena and Edward from Detroit in 1915 on which Helena claims her maiden name as BUDZYNSKI.

Perhaps Edward and Helena were never married in Poland? Maybe the Detroit marriage certificate was a simply needed to establish the bond while Edward was working toward his citizenship?

So I am chasing clues that may or may not pan out, but for now it seems all I have. Reading your very helpful insight, and writing down my thoughts helps to provide some direction, knowing that I may be chasing the goose that lays the golden egg! Smile

One final (for now) request...Wincenty's arrival listing from 1901 is attached and I'm having trouble deciphering the town name listed. If I may beg your indulgence... ?

Thank you!!
Joe



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:57 pm      Post subject:
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Dave...thank you, again, for your very helpful insight. My grandmother, Helena, has always been an enigma. Born Dudczak in 1887, her father died when she was 9 and I believe her mother died by the time Helena was in her early teens, and my working theory is that Helena was taken in by an aunt who married a Budzynski. Helena's brother, Wincenty, arrived in America as Dudzinski, but adopted the Budzinski name some time after he emigrated to America, and Helena, by 1914, was claiming Budzinski was her maiden name.

It all gets very confusing, but when Helena arrived in America in 1906, her papers said she was going to her husband, Wincenty, in Niagara Falls. Wincenty is her brother. On her detention papers, it says she is waiting for the train to take her to her brother, Wincenty, in Niagara Falls. This, in spite of the fact that my grandfather was already in NYC, meeting up with Helena's brother, Antoni in 1905.

Both my grandmother Helena, and grandfather Edward Zecman, claimed to be married on their arrival papers, though Helena was using the name Dudzinska. I have them both placed in Brooklyn in 1907 with the birth of their daughter, where Helena lists her married name as Zecman and maiden name as Dudzinska. To complicate things further, I have a marriage record for Helena and Edward from Detroit in 1915 on which Helena claims her maiden name as BUDZYNSKI.

Perhaps Edward and Helena were never married in Poland? Maybe the Detroit marriage certificate was a simply needed to establish the bond while Edward was working toward his citizenship?

So I am chasing clues that may or may not pan out, but for now it seems all I have. Reading your very helpful insight, and writing down my thoughts helps to provide some direction, knowing that I may be chasing the goose that lays the golden egg! Smile

One final (for now) request...Wincenty's arrival listing from 1901 is attached and I'm having trouble deciphering the town name listed. If I may beg your indulgence... ?

Thank you!!
Joe


Joe,

I can’t make sense of the village name as it appears on the manifest. My feeling is that he was living somewhere in what was powiat Włocławski. My best off the wall guess is that the name as written is a misinterpretation of Siemnówek, a village near where Helena was born. Such errors on manifests can drive one up a wall. My paternal grandmother was listed on her manifest as residing with her father in Imojewo when in reality her father was living in the village of Niemojewo in the parish of Choceń. By the way, the person listed above Wincenty on the manifest was from the village of Borzymie, which is also in the parish of Choceń. My instinct is that they knew each other and were traveling together.

I make no claims to being good at reading the handwriting on manifests. There are a number of forum members who are quite skilled at determining place names. Perhaps someone else could give you a better idea of the village name.

Regarding the 1915 marriage record...I presume the copy you refer to is a civil copy. To test the theory about a connection to naturalization if you could locate a church record, it would go a long way to resolving your question. They would not have married in church if they had already been married ecclesiastically. Of course, another possibility is that they had married civilly and then decided to have a church wedding. If that was the case, there would have been a notation in the church register which would have stated that the marriage was a revalidation of a civil marriage (“revalidatio matrimonii mere civilis” would be a likely Latin notation).

Looks like Helena didn’t make your research easy.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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