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sarahf3667



Joined: 02 Nov 2017
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:44 pm      Post subject: Name & address (Janina Krawcowicz, Warsaw)
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Hi there, I am trying to read what my grandmother's name is on a number of documents but am unable to read the handwriting. I have uploaded some examples I have which show a name and address. I would really love some help if anyone has the time to review.

Thank you in advance Smile

Sarah



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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:31 pm      Post subject: Re: Name & address
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sarahf3667 wrote:
Hi there, I am trying to read what my grandmother's name is on a number of documents but am unable to read the handwriting. I have uploaded some examples I have which show a name and address. I would really love some help if anyone has the time to review.

Thank you in advance Smile

Sarah


Krawcowicz. Warszawa. Nowe ??? Jastrzebicka 5 m 7 (

Gilberto
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:04 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Sarah,
Her given name is Janina. I agree with Gilberto that her married surname is Krawcowicz. Her maiden name looks like Brewo where I am rather sure of the "Brew" part but I am uncertain of the last letter. Brewa might make more sense, but it does not look like an "a".
As for her address, the city is Warszawa. The street name is a little tougher. My best guess is that it is Jastrzebia 5 / nr 7 which means building #5 on Jastrzebia street, apartment number 7.
So if Janina is your grandmother, then your grandfather's name was Waclaw.
Sophia
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:32 am      Post subject:
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Deciphering address is a bit hard indeed.

There is no street Jastrzębska in today Warsaw. There is Jastrzębia, but near Ursynów, After the War this area was not urbanized so i reject this street.

I read address from military docs as Warszawa, Nowe Śródm. Jastrzębia 5/m7 //// where Nowe Śródm. would mean Śródmieście - new center. I cant get why but explanation later.

I found on wikipedia, that Jastrzębia street was just a rename during German occupation. Before and after the war, it was Sokola street. On this old map 1948 http://maps.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/various/various/Topographic_maps/PLAN_M.ST.WARSZAWY_25K_1948.jpg i see Sokola street in Praga district, at the railway. So, maybe New Sródmieście and Jastrzębia was a still a german nomenclature used on papers.

What would be important, Pelcowizna is next to today Praga. Its on the Praga-North. Mother of Ryszard had to move during the war to Sokola street just near by.
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:36 am      Post subject:
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Hi Sirdan,
That is very interesting about the street names! It shows how important it is to use a map that is from the same time as the document.
From the other conversation Sarah is in here on the forum, I think her interest is perhaps more about her grandmother's name rather than her address. How do you see Janina's surname? I read it as Brew_ but unsure of last letter.
Sophia
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sarahf3667



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:19 am      Post subject:
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You are all so very kind. I am honestly after any information I can find at all. We know nothing about Ryszard’s family at all. We have no birth certificate, nothing about brothers and sisters or even his parents so I am trying to find anything at all. I found a birth record for waclaw but am yet to connect him to ryszard other than seeing the name waclaw on some military documents which could be a coincidence. I am coming to Warsaw in April and hope to discover more then. Thank you all so very much - my family and I appreciate it so much
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:31 am      Post subject:
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Sarah,
All best wishes to you and your family, and the memory of Ryszard, on this Remembrance Day.
Sophia
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:05 pm      Post subject:
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Hello Sarah and all!

I believe it is always good to have as much clues as possible, to not make incidentally mistake. As so, there is a chance to find interesting side story concerning ancestor, during the war there were plenty of them.

I looked at mother surname. It looks like Brewo. On the last picture i see Ryszard finished elementary school in 1937 in Nowe Brudno. Lets look at the letter "o" here. It has same little tail on upper-right corner of the letter like in Brewo surname. Its definitely rare name. I would love to to see writing like that todays, how easy would be to distinguish this letter from the zero "0" digit..

Nowe Bródno, again, is near Pelcowizna. Im sure Krawcowicz came from around here, just need hard proof.
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sarahf3667



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Post Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:47 am      Post subject:
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Hi Sirdan,

Thank you so much for all of the information. Do you know where I can obtain a copy of a birth certificate perhaps? I hopefully now have Ryszard's parents names (Waclaw and Janina Brewo) and his date of birth and a rough area. Is there an office I can go to? I cannot find an online record unfortunately. Or perhaps a marriage record for Waclaw and Janina. I have attached what i think may be a birth record for Ryszard's father Waclaw although i have not properly connected this Waclaw Krawcowicz with Ryszard's father other than the same name. Thank you in advance,
Sarah



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Sophia



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Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:08 am      Post subject:
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Hi Sarah,
You have some rare surnames here. One tool we like to use on this forum is Moikrewni.pl , which shows the number of people in Poland using a particular surname, and how those people are distributed across the country. Here is Krawcowicz:
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/krawcowicz.html
You see it shows only 13 people with that name. You can see that by changing the spelling to Krawcewicz (although you have not found that spelling yet in your search) the number increases to 497. Just as a point of comparison, a kind of Smith or Jones name is Nowak, which yields more than 200,000 people. The name Krawczykiewicz is also not a large number (214). The name Brewo is not found at all, and in my opinion you have to keep an open mind on this one to possibly be something else, where Ryszard simply could not remember it correctly at the time he was filling out those forms. Brewinski? Brewczynski? Not worth guessing. I would trust him more to have her first name correct, Janina (= Jenny).
I think your best bet is to try to pre-arrange a meeting at the churches in Warsaw, before you go, to try to get a look at their records for 1924. Specifically, Warszawa Praga Matka Boska Loretanska http://diecezja.waw.pl/parafie/warszawa-praga-mb-loretanskiej and Warszawa Sw. Krzyz http://swkrzyz.pl/ . since those are the churches where you have found records for these surnames. Once you've got Ryszard's baptism record, then it all opens up for you.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:48 pm      Post subject:
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sarahf3667 wrote:
Hi Sirdan,

Thank you so much for all of the information. Do you know where I can obtain a copy of a birth certificate perhaps? I hopefully now have Ryszard's parents names (Waclaw and Janina Brewo) and his date of birth and a rough area. Is there an office I can go to? I cannot find an online record unfortunately. Or perhaps a marriage record for Waclaw and Janina. I have attached what i think may be a birth record for Ryszard's father Waclaw although i have not properly connected this Waclaw Krawcowicz with Ryszard's father other than the same name. Thank you in advance,
Sarah
To add what Sophia wrote, you can get a BMD certificate from civil office, its Urząd Stanu Cywilnego in Poland. There is one in Targówek district and in Praga-Północ one. After proving a blood relation, one can get a copy for free. But if you go personally with translator without blood proof and show what is the situation, office workers may look into old books and say some information, not showing actual record. It all depend on people working there.

You may wrote a polish letter to old church in Warszawa-Praga. Priest may send you information back. Personal visit is also doable, but you must go to priest with dates. Priests usually do not let research with books, until you pay and do what other genealogists do.
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:59 pm      Post subject:
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According to this document http://usc.um.warszawa.pl/sites/usc.um.warszawa.pl/files/ksiegi_archiwum.pdf There was Św. Jadwiga parish on Pelcowizna. Books from 1921-1945 are stored in USC in Warszawa Praga Północ
Parish was settled in 1920/1921 so 3 years before Ryszard birth.
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:12 pm      Post subject: Warszawa, Nowe Bródno, ul. Jastrzębska 5/m7
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That was the correct adress. It is on the right side of Vistula River, Praga, in Targówek.
I found very interesting testimony written in 2004 about Bródno, including about changes in the street names over time, where it is explictely stated "Dziś nikt już nie pamięta jak biegły ulice Sądowelska, Wąsowska, Jeżycka, Żytomierska, Oknicka, Jastrzębska, Sitkowska, Niemeńska czy Nalibocka. Po prostu Nowe Bródno po raz kolejny przeszło metamorfozę, jak widać nie pierwszą w swojej historii." - it is about few steets non existing any more, without even memory where those streets were on the old maps. cf. http://forum.gazeta.pl/forum/w,16112,10388741,10388741,HISTORIA_BRODNA.html

Thank you! Very interesting.
Elzbieta
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