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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 337

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:18 pm      Post subject:
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WSheleski, I am not sure anyone here really needs that reminder. GerriKos already said she was trying to find a manifest and that she wanted an original document to support what the typed birth record showed. Dave N is one of the most careful researchers around. Just saying. Beyond that, I do the same thing as you when looking at a manifest, to see if other people on the ship are in some way related to the passenger of interest.

Gerri, I know you are not even sure that this manifest is your Jakob, as you expected him to travel with his wife and kids. It was not that uncommon for the father to come first and the rest of the family to follow, once he had established a job and a place to live. I have been looking for a manifest for Maryanna and the kids, paying special attention to not only Baltimore arrivals but Philadelphia as well, due to proximity. No luck so far.

Sophia
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GerriKos



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Replies: 33

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:08 pm      Post subject: Towns of Sabir and Dzmierniki, Poland/Austria
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Sophia,

Thank you so much for the Death Notice for my great-grandmother, Mary [Marzec] Marcinek. Was that German newspaper from Baltimore? I find that death notices and obituaries are the hardest things to find in my family from the early 1900's to mid 1900's. I did have a death certificate for her and searched for an obituary but I would never have thought to look in a German newspaper. Mostly because I don't know where they are from in Poland. One of their children's birth records noted Mary's birthplace to be Dzmierniki, Poland/Austria and her husband, Jacob's birthplace to be Sabir, Poland/Austria. Earlier in my posts you'll see that Gilberto kindly offered that Dzmierniki could be Zwiernik (east of Tarnow). It is very possible when you know other things about the family. Maybe Jacob's town was closer to Germany and, therefore, he spoke German also. Since the death notice was placed in a German newspaper, it makes sense. The birthplace on the passenger record did say "Germany" - I just took it to mean Germany/Poland as my other grandparents always said they were from Russia/Poland.
I really appreciate all of the help from everyone at Polish Origins - this Marcinek family is certainly a challenge.

GerriKos
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GerriKos



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:57 pm      Post subject: Towns of Sabir and Dzmierniki, Poland/Austria
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WSheleski,

Thank you for your comment about "going to original documents" if possible. This is a very important lesson for anyone doing genealogy - not necessarily those just beginning. I have been doing my genealogy since I first saw "Roots" on TV (1980's ??). You could say it's much easier now with internet than traveling place to place looking for original records but it is also a lot trickier with so much information being put out there. I, personally, feel better having documentation on my records just because that's the way I am. You can't always trust what someone puts online without attached references - nor can you assume that your family is not on a microfilm because it wasn't on the digital version. I have found many family members on a microfilm that hadn't yet made it to that format. Even though I have been doing this for many years, this was something that came to my attention just over the past year.

So thank you, once again, for your insight. I am grateful for any and all suggestions that will help me through those "brick walls" I often come up against. I hope I can repay the kindness I have found at Polish Origins.

GerriKos
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:40 pm      Post subject: Re: Towns of Sabir and Dzmierniki, Poland/Austria
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GerriKos wrote:
Sophia,

Thank you so much for the Death Notice for my great-grandmother, Mary [Marzec] Marcinek. Was that German newspaper from Baltimore? I find that death notices and obituaries are the hardest things to find in my family from the early 1900's to mid 1900's. I did have a death certificate for her and searched for an obituary but I would never have thought to look in a German newspaper. Mostly because I don't know where they are from in Poland. One of their children's birth records noted Mary's birthplace to be Dzmierniki, Poland/Austria and her husband, Jacob's birthplace to be Sabir, Poland/Austria. Earlier in my posts you'll see that Gilberto kindly offered that Dzmierniki could be Zwiernik (east of Tarnow). It is very possible when you know other things about the family. Maybe Jacob's town was closer to Germany and, therefore, he spoke German also. Since the death notice was placed in a German newspaper, it makes sense. The birthplace on the passenger record did say "Germany" - I just took it to mean Germany/Poland as my other grandparents always said they were from Russia/Poland.
I really appreciate all of the help from everyone at Polish Origins - this Marcinek family is certainly a challenge.

GerriKos


Gerri & Sophia,

Another clue which may help you to nail down Jakub’s immigration originates from the death notice Sophia found. You now have the family’s address in 1900---808 South Bond Street. We all know that sometimes individuals and families are not found in indexes of a census and sometimes the family/individual can be located by browsing the returns for the enumeration district where the address was canvassed. The trick is to determine the ED district, which in cities is found within the boundaries of city wards. In Chicago, where I was born and my direct ancestors all settled upon arrival in the US, a site, http://www.alookatcook.com/ gives detailed ward maps and ED district boundaries for the various censuses. Unfortunately, I was not able to find a similar resource for Baltimore, which would make it difficult to determine the ED in 1900 for 808 South Bond Street. Since the 1900 Census recorded the year of immigration, years in the USA, and whether the individual was naturalized, it could help to direct your research. Since the 1900 Census was taken in June, Maryanna would not appear there. However, if you can find Jakub and the children there should be good clues for whether they arrived as a family unit or whether Jakub arrived alone and then sent for Maryanna & the children. The port of arrival will not be listed but the year can be helpful in directing your search.

As always, wishing you success,

Dave
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:32 am      Post subject:
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Dave, I really like your idea of using the death notice to get to the immigration info on the 1900 census. You will be pleased to know there is an ED finder here: http://stevemorse.org/census/unified.html?year=1900 and if you follow through the steps, it will narrow you down to three possible Enumeration Districts for 808 S. Bond Street in Baltimore, for the year 1900.

Gerri, yes, the German newspaper was a Baltimore paper. It is not at all clear to me that the family asked for her death to be printed there. With the disparity in how old the paper said she was, versus her age as calculated from the years of birth and death on her gravestone, I think it is more likely that the paper just collected and printed deaths from a public source and they made an error in her case. All this to say that German might not have been the family's language of choice.
The Marcinek surname does not seem that common. Yet, in another issue of Der Deutsche Correspondent later in 1900, there is a sad story of another Mary Marcinek in Big Mountain, Pennsylvania. Do you know if they were related?
Sophia
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GerriKos



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:56 am      Post subject: Towns of Sabir & Dzmierniki, Austria/Poland
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Sophia,
It's is confusing to me why the German newspaper was used. However, I still don't know where Jacob came from - I can't seem to find a town called Sabir - so maybe he was close enough to Germany to know the German language.

Mary's age at death in the newspaper actually corresponded with her Death Certificate which also may or may not be correct depending on who was giving the information. Not sure where the cemetery got the dates for the gravestone (?) but I have seen church records that do not correspond with the state records - so how do you ever know who is right? You just have to keep hoping something will pop up to confirm the date.

Thanks for you help. So far I have not been able to find a census report on the Marcineks from the 1900's. I guess you only get on the census if you answer the door when they knock. My grandfather and his family (Phila) were not on any early census reports either. I'll check into that stevemorse.org sight that you and Dave suggested.

Thanks, GerriKos
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GerriKos



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:12 pm      Post subject: Towns of Sabir and Dzmierniki, Poland/Austria
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Sophia,.
I'm not sure if there's a relationship between the Mary in Baltimore and the Mary in Big Mountain, PA. I haven't translated it yet to know what it even says. As you can see, I don't have much on this family to begin with.
Gerri
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Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:21 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Gerri,
If you are looking for a translation of the Big Mountain story, it is easier for me to just give you the story as it appeared in an English language paper. This one is from the September 18, 1900 edition of the Evening Tribune in Hornell, NY but several papers carried the same story. In the English papers, the family name is Marcinak. In the German paper in Baltimore, it was Marcinek. I think that perhaps this unfortunate family was really Marciniak and not related to you - - too bad, because it gives three generations of women in one short story.
Further, I searched the newspapers for "Marchinek" and find two more in Baltimore that look relevant. One is merely a list from 1893 in which Jakob Marchinek applied for a liquor license. The other, in 1913, relates to the drowning of a John Marchinek.
Like you, I have been unable to find any of your family in the 1900 census or on ship manifests (other than that one promising one for Jakob).
Sophia



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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:29 pm      Post subject:
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Gerri & Sophia,

I browsed ED 64 and ED 65. The Enumerator for ED 65 was William F. Alexander and the district only contains the odd number addresses for the 800 block of South Bond. The 800 Block of Bond was done on June 1. ED 64 was enumerated by Peter A. Brill and contains returns for the 500, 600, & 700 blocks of South Bond. The enumerator began his work on June 1 & finished on June 15. There are many names which appear to be Polish in both districts. In ED 64 the place of birth appears as either Germany, Prussia, or German Poland in about 97% of the Polish names. Probably about 2.5% are from Russia or Russian Poland and the remainder are from Austria. In ED 65 the country of origin is given as Germany or Prussia, but not German Poland. The conclusions which I would draw from browsing the returns from those two districts are: 1. The odds are much higher that the family was from the German Partition rather than the Austrian Partition; 2.The family almost certainly belonged to St. Stanislaus parish and that is almost certainly where her funeral took place (especially since she is buried in the parish cemetery); 3. The surname may or may not be spelled correctly; and 4. If you locate the returns for the even numbers of the 800 block of Bond and the family is not there, then it is quite possible that they were not home on the day the block was enumerated because they were at the funeral. When you continue to search for the even numbered houses on the 800 block of Bond you don’t need to browse ED 64 & ED 65. (The even numbered addresses should exist in another ED since Google maps shows an image with houses on both sides of the street. The houses appear to date from the mid 19th Century.)

Regarding why the death notice appeared in a German language paper...I agree with what Sophia wrote that possibly the paper simply published death info which could have been obtained from civil death records without the family having provided any information. Whether or not they understood and/or spoke German would not necessarily be related to where they lived. Germany emerged as a unified state in 1871. That was also the year Bismarck instituted the policy of Kulturkamf which was anti Catholic and anti Polish. From that year on civil records were kept in German. The policy favored replacing Poles with German settlers in what was called German Poland. How much familiarity a Pole had with the German language often depended on the number of German settlers in the village/parish where the individual lived. All the above spurred on the first wave of peasant emigration from German controlled Poland, a wave which was at its height from roughly 1870 to 1890.

Regarding info on the tombstone...The cemetery was not responsible for that info. The family would purchase a gravestone and have it engraved with info provided by the family. The stone would then be installed either by the company which sold it or by the cemetery workers. (This brings back memories of the years of having a summer job at Holy Cross Cemetery in Calumet City when I was in high school.) There is probably no way to tell whether Jakob provided the info for his wife or whether the children purchased the stone after both parents had died. Birth info on gravestones is often quite unreliable since it usually was provided by someone other than the deceased. (The same is true of info in death certificates.) It may be worthwhile to contact St. Stanislaus Cemetery, which is still in operation, to see what info they can provide.

Happy hunting.

Dave
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:31 am      Post subject:
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If you use the Steve Morse ED finder, and you use the address of 800 Bond St with ONLY ONE cross street (I used Lancaster), then you get 3 possible Enumeration Districts, 53, 64 and 65. So ED 53 is your next logical one to try.
Sophia
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GerriKos



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:00 pm      Post subject: Towns of Sabir & Dzmierniki, Austria/Poland
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Sophia,

Once I got into the Steve Morse ED page and plugged in the two streets - it brought me to a page with ED53 - still just a page with the correct input but no picture. I am a member of ancestry.com but I don't know how to get to the info?
When I click on either of the boxes (one free / the other associated with ancestry) I just get a scrolling page of words - not a census record.
Gerri
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:49 pm      Post subject:
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Sophia & Gerri,

The even numbers on the 800 Block were covered in ED 53 and 808 was visited three times. The bad news is that the only families listed as residing there were Frank Binarzowski & his wife, the Summer family, and the Zuchowski family. The first family was visited by the enumerator assigned to the ED on June 9. The next family was visited by a special agent and the last family was added by the supervisor. The images on the Family Search viewer are Image 18 (Sheet 9B, Lines 64 & 65) and Image 32 & 33 for the families visited by the special agent and the supervisor.

It probably was a good idea to try to use the census for info regarding place of origin and immigration data. Unfortunately, it didn’t pan out as the family is not found on the census returns.

Gerri,

You can use Family Search gratis to browse the returns for the census and the images are there. The family is not there but feel free to double check what I found while you were writing your response to Sophia.

Sorry that the idea seems to have been a bust.

Dave
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