Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:59 am
Post subject: Why would she keep HER surname? Nowy Targ
Hi everyone -
I have been at a dead end in the search for my Paternal ancestors after searching for 5+ years. I am wondering if anyone could point me in a direction to answer and help find the father of my GGrandfather and the origin of my family surname. Women are often lost to history with the taking of their husband's surname but I seem to have the opposite problem:
My GGreat-Grandmother Rosalia Bachulski (born c.1885 in Nowy Targ to Jan Bachulski and Tekla Slowakiewicz) immigrated to America in 1904 with her two young sons, Frank Bachulski c. 1898 (my Ggrandfather)and Jozef Bachulski c.1902.
Her brother Bartlomeij Bachulski made the trip with her.
As you can see I have no info on the father of my GGrandfather and since Rosalia Bachulski kept her birth name and gave it to her children, the father may be lost to history.
Is it common in Poland for a mother to give HER surname to her male children? Was she possibly unmarried with 2 young boys and going to America to escape the shame?
Can anyone help point me to birth/christening records in NOWY TARG - I am 100% sure she was catholic.
Thank you in advance!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1027
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:47 am
Post subject:
Hi kbns625,
I looked at the ship manifest for the Main which arrived in NY on 17 Dec. 1905. Whether by error or intentionally, Rosalia and Bartlomiej look like a married couple with 2 kids. They are going to Reading PA, to someone whom Rosalia calls her brother, and Bartlomiej calls his brother-in-law. In reality, isn't it John Miraszewski to whom they are going? That would be Rosa's husband, and indeed Bartlomiej's brother-in-law. That is how they show up in the 1910 census. On the ship manifest, it appears that one of the kids had a medical issue which caused them all to be held for Special Inquiry (see the "SI" next to their names?) but released the next day (if you are looking at the manifest on Ancestry.com, go from image 18 of 550 where their entry is, to image 153 of 550, in order to see the Special Inquiry page for them). One can come up with a number of reasons for what is going on - - one possibility is that they thought their chances of smooth entry would be enhanced by appearing to be a family, rather than as a sister and brother with her two kids.
In the end, I think your idea of finding their birth records seems to be the right way to resolve the question. It is possible you will see that Rosalia and her kids are all legitimately Miraszewski's.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:53 pm
Post subject:
Hi,
Send email to Parish archive and ask to verify if there are baptism records you looking for. I assume that you are convinced that your ancestors are direct from city nowy targ not from nowy targ community (villages next to nowy targ) .
email: [email protected]
Best,
Taddys
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:43 pm
Post subject:
Thank you for your replies!
Sophia - you put together in a day what took me years to research:) I am sure Bartlomeij BACHULSKI was Rosa's brother and John Miraszewski was NOT the biological father of Franz and Josef BACHUSLKI. I also know they had a sister "Mary BACHULSKI" who remained in Poland.
Taddy - Thank you for the link - I will definitely email but I am not 100% sure that they are from "NOWY TARG" proper but that is the only place name I have on the few documents I do have.
Interestingly - I just received my DNA results and not only did the come back "Polish" they have enough markers to pinpoint that my DNA is from the TATRA Mountains/Nowy Targ region because of lack of dilution of those from that areas DNA over generations.
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:30 pm
Post subject:
One more thing, i've just verified myheritage.com and found Kelly Bachulski and her trees. Names and surnames sounds simillar What have you been doing for 5 years ??
Rosa Miraszewski (z d. Bachulski)
1885 - 1947
Urodziny: 15 paź 1885
Poland
Przybycie: 1902
Przybycie: 1902
Miejsce zamieszkania: Reading Ward 2, Berks, Pennsylvania
1910
Miejsce zamieszkania: Reading Ward 2, Berks, Pennsylvania
1910
Miejsce zamieszkania: 840 Bingaman Steet Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
1923
Miejsce zamieszkania: Reading, Berks, Pennsylvania
1930
Miejsce zamieszkania: 310 Bell Alley, Reading City, Berks, Pennsylvania
1939
Miejsce zamieszkania: Reading; Hyde Park; Laureldale; Mount Penn; Pennside; Shillington; Spring Mount; West Lawn; West Re…, Pennsylvania, USA
1943
Śmierć: Berks County Almshouse
22 maj 1947
Reading, Berks, Pennsylvania
John Miraszewski
1864 - 1926
Urodziny: Około 1864
Russia
Miejsce zamieszkania: Klownicy
Departure: Antwerp, Belgium
Przybycie: 1902
Przybycie: 28 lut 1902
New York, New York
Miejsce zamieszkania: 430 South 7th Street Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
1903
Miejsce zamieszkania: Reading Ward 2, Berks, Pennsylvania
1910
Miejsce zamieszkania: 446 Minor Street Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
1912
Miejsce zamieszkania: 840 Bingaman Street Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
1922
Śmierć: Przed 1927
Reading, Berks, Pennsylvania, USA
Bartlomiej Bachulski
1868 - 1934
Urodziny: 19 sty 1868
Nowy Targ, Malopolskie, Poland
Przybycie: 1903
Przybycie: 1906
Miejsce zamieszkania: Age in 1910: 44Age in 1910: 44; Marital Status: Single; Relation to Head of House: Boarder, 423 Minor Street, Reading Ward 2, Berks, Pennsylvania
1910
Miejsce zamieszkania: Reading, Berks, Pennsylvania
1930
Miejsce zamieszkania: 840 Bingaman Street Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
1932
Śmierć: 2 cze 1934
Reading, Berks, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:32 pm
Post subject:
That's ME!!! I am Kelly, LOL!!
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1027
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Post subject:
OK, so if you have strong reason to think that John Miraszewski is not the biological father, then the answer to your question is easy: Rosalia's children have her surname, because she was not married when they were born. That's the only surname they could be given.
Good luck tracking down records from Nowy Targ. Let us know what you find!
Sophia
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:40 pm
Post subject:
Sophia wrote: | OK, so if you have strong reason to think that John Miraszewski is not the biological father, then the answer to your question is easy: Rosalia's children have her surname, because she was not married when they were born. That's the only surname they could be given.
Good luck tracking down records from Nowy Targ. Let us know what you find!
Sophia |
Hi Sophia & Kelly,
There is another possibility---Rozalia's maiden name may have Bachulska and she may have had a first husband whose surname was also Bachulski. I've seen spouses who had the same surname in records I've translated from Galicia (as well as other partitions). Consanguinity was not uncommon in areas where families had lived for generations. Sometimes the consanguinity required a dispensation and sometimes the relationship was so distant that no dispensation was required.
I see some very real difficulties with the dates as given in the original post. If Rozalia was born c. 1885 and gave birth to her first child c. 1898 she would have been c. 13 years old when the first child was born---not a biological impossibility but culturally unlikely. She would not have been of age to marry in the Catholic Church. I presume all the dates were derived from later documents in the USA---a very iffy proposition. All in all, it gives pause to accept the dates as factual.
If she were a single mother and if the ages are anywhere close to accurate, it would have been rather unusual for her to have had two children out of wedlock before she immigrated. If she had been married to a man who had the same surname as her maiden name, the dates are basically impossible. Her age in the 1910 Census would be more likely than the 1885 date.
It appears to me that the only way to reach reliable conclusions would be to locate records from Nowy Targ (either the town or the gmina or the powiat.
In order make sense of the dates and to get across the pond it would be necessary to do some more research here. I would suggest contacting the parish where John and Rozalia married in Reading and requesting a photocopy of the entry in the marriage register. According to the 1910 Fed. Census She and John had been married for four years. Thus they probably married c. 1906. There were two Roman Catholic Polish ethnic parishes in Reading at that time---St. Mary's and St. Anthony's. There was also a Polish National Catholic Parish (St. Stephen's) in Reading. The Polish National Catholic broke away from the Roman Catholic Church at the turn of the century in a dispute in which some priests wanted greater control by having Polish bishops in the US and in which the laity and the clergy wanted to control the physical parish buildings without the local bishop having any control. Anyway, there are three possible places where She and John would have married---most likely St. Mary's or St. Anthony's---less likely the PNC church of St. Stephen. By searching for those places by name it should be possible to find the contact info. At a minimum the marriage register will record whether either or both parties were single or had been widowed, date and place of baptism of the parties, and their parents' names. That info should provide good direction for further research. The (c) after St. Mary's means that the parish had a cemetery.
With wishes for success,
Dave
P.S. "Waiting For Godot" brings back memories of undergrad English in 1965.
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:49 am
Post subject:
Thank you guys so much for all the suggestions!!! I have emailed Nowy Targ in hopes of baptismal records Franz BACHULSKI. Fingers crossed...
Dave - I took your suggestion and I FOUND Rosa's Marriage license!!!! I tried to upload it but it is 2.11 JPG and I don't know how to resize to make it smaller...
Date of MARRIAGE: May 19 1906
Reading, Berks, PA
Rosa BACHULSKI is 24
"Never Married Before"
Parents: Jan and Tekla
John MIRASZEWSKI - 40
"Never married before"
She would have been 16 at birth of Franz BACHULSKI and 20 at the birth of JOZEF.
I still have no idea the father of Franz and Jozef are but I feel like I am getting closer...
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:56 am
Post subject:
Marriage License of Rosa BACHULSKI!! (Figured how to make smaller)
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:24 pm
Post subject:
kbns625 wrote: | Thank you guys so much for all the suggestions!!! I have emailed Nowy Targ in hopes of baptismal records Franz BACHULSKI. Fingers crossed...
Dave - I took your suggestion and I FOUND Rosa's Marriage license!!!! I tried to upload it but it is 2.11 JPG and I don't know how to resize to make it smaller...
Date of MARRIAGE: May 19 1906
Reading, Berks, PA
Rosa BACHULSKI is 24
"Never Married Before"
Parents: Jan and Tekla
John MIRASZEWSKI - 40
"Never married before"
She would have been 16 at birth of Franz BACHULSKI and 20 at the birth of JOZEF.
I still have no idea the father of Franz and Jozef are but I feel like I am getting closer... |
Kelly,
It is great that you located the marriage license and it does contain some useful information. However, that is not exactly the document which I suggested that you should obtain. It is a civil record completed by a clerk who did not speak Polish---hence the spelling of Rozalia’s maiden name. The document which would provide you with the best information and give best direction to your research in Poland is found in the Catholic Church Marriage Register. From the document you found it is clear that the marriage took place in St. Mary (of Częstochowa) Catholic Church in Reading (cf. The attached contact info). As it turns out, St. Mary’s is the only one of the Polish Churches in Reading where the marriage could have taken place.
You should contact the parish and request a photocopy of the entry in the marriage register. You do not want a marriage certificate. If it is not possible to obtain a photocopy the next best would be a transcription of the entry in the register. Why do you want a photocopy of the entry? The actual entry should contain birth and baptism info for the bride and the groom. Since the priest who entered the info spoke Polish the info should be detailed and will tell you whether Rose was born and baptized in the town of Nowy Targ or in one of the parishes in the surrounding area---that makes a big difference in where you should request records in Poland. The actual entry in the register will probably be in Latin and that is why a photocopy is preferable---a parish secretary would probably not be familiar enough with Latin to provide a completely accurate transcription.
It may take a bit of time to get what you need from the parish but the contact info does provide an email address so one can hope that it wouldn’t take too long to get a response.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Dave
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:33 pm
Post subject: 3 Illegimate children?
Just an update from my past query above - I have been searching the online Polish Archives to see if I could find any info on my Bachulski ancestors. There was an entry that had the name "Jan Bachulski from Nowy Targ" so I wrote and asked if they could send me the info on that file.
The below is what was sent:
In reply to your letter sent by e-mail on May 1 this year The National Archives would like to inform that as a result of the query in the 29/3426 CK team, the District Court in Nowy Targ, archival unit number 2288 contains "Files of the Guardianship of Jan Bachulski from Nowy Targ" from 1905. The documentation shows that Jan Bachulski, born on 24.01.1905 - d. On 12.09.1905 in Nowy Targ he was the illegitimate son of Rozali Bachulska, the daughter of the host from Nowy Targ (24) and probably Franciszek Zborowski, a bricklayer from Jordan, probably in 1904.
At the same time, the Archive informs that in the near future (within a few weeks) record files will be taken from the Civil Registry Office in Nowy Targ, where it will be possible to continue the query. The archive will inform you about it, without the need for you to submit another question.
This MAY be my ggreat-gradmother Rozalii BACHULSKA from Nowy Targ! It looks like she had an illegitimate baby in 1905 - She landed in the USA in DEC 1905 with my ggranfather Franz Bachulski b.1898 and Jozef Bachulski b 1902 - Did she have 3 illeg kids - YIKES!! The mystery deepens...
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EANWhitsonPO Top Contributor
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Replies: 370
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:19 pm
Post subject:
We never know the circumstances of our ancestors. I had one who had FOUR illegitimate children and then married six months after her last illegitimate child was born. The man she married had never been married before and was in his late 30s. She was in her late 20s and also had not been married. A brother for the man shows that they were from a wealthy family. This man married my ancestor only after his parents were dead.
My guess is that her new husband was also the father of the illegitimate children. I don't know that for sure and this is someone who was born in 1803, so unless someone of the line of the husband DNA tests, I'll never know.
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