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Shellie
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:00 pm      Post subject: Podole? Prdotz? Podwlk? mystery village
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For those who followed my tour with Zenon this summer of 2009, I learned that my grandfather's older siblings were not born in the same village as my grandfather (village of Luslawice, east of Krakow) or his parents (Odrowaz, near Nowy Targ).

Today I went back to the ship manifest showing the 1912 New York arrival of my great-grandmother Aneila Kulawiak with my grandfather and his siblings. In the birthplace column, I can clearly see Aneila Kulawiak's birthplace (Odrowaz), but for the entry below (for the children), I can not read the village.

The village name is definitely not Luslawice, but it looks like.....Prdotz?
I've attached a cropped image - what do you think?

I have not been able to find any village with a name that resembles Prdotz. Does anyone have any ideas? This village was probably in southern Poland.

Also, does anyone have a site with a comprehensive list of Poland villages that can be browsed alphabetically? It's virtually impossible to google a village name if you can't spell it, but a list would be a huge help.

Thanks!
Shellie



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Last edited by Shellie on Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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James
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:27 pm      Post subject: Nowy Targ Villages
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Shellie,

Wikipedia ; Nowy Targ villages. An alphabetical list of villages and settlements

James
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Tad Wysocki
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:15 am      Post subject:
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Hi dear Shellie,

Here Tad, the friend of your best Polish guide Zenon. Here is my cordial help in locating the place of the birth of your beloved Grandpa, the most important for him place on the planet:

With my Polish eyes I see the first name of the place as yes - the very old Polish Gorals mountain village Odrowaz, located in southern part of Poland, and the second name of the place "Prdotz" as Podszkle - the village located just abt 3 miles NW of the Odrowaz.

Here is the website pointing this place with Polish Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podszkle,_Lesser_Poland_Voivodeship

You can find wonderful info from your Grandpa's Podszkle with gmina Czarny Dunajec website:
http://www.czarnydunajec.iap.pl/index.html?id=2618&location=f&msg=1
= the very old Polish village, noted from 1580, beatifully located amongst small mountains, deep woods, and local rivers. The church on-site errected in the XVIII century., etc. And: the name od the place PODSZKLE directly means in Polish Pod-szkle - off-the-glass, and the local story is telling that centuries ago the glazier, quickly going thru the village, suddenly stumbled, lost his glass, and said: "Cholerka, to po szkle" - "Oh my, I lost all my glass" ( sorry my maybe bad translation, just trying to tell you the story, for your rich Family History Book as interesting addendum Smile

Thus, your Grandpa's church, parish, and the family cemetery was this Poszkle.

But I may be wrong! Only you can confirm all with checking church/civil books from this Podszkle. They are available in Poland, and/or in the US with FHL/LDS microfilms ordered from their centre in Salt Lake City. The other place name version I see this "Prdotz" as maybe Potok (a stream).

2009 Poland, and our phone directories are not giving any Kulawiak's as survived in this Podszkle, and few Kulawiak's in near Odrowaz, but all about of them we can read with your story! Thanks for preserving all family roots from Poland.

With traditional Polish Gorals HEY!

Tad
Shellie
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:54 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Tad
Thank you so much for writing about Podszkle. I googled it and found that it was formerly Arva Megye, Hungary, but now is a part of Poland and is quite close to Bukovina.

The church records have not been filmed, but I did find someone who is researching their ancestry there and has many records that she can look thru to see if my family is listed there.

Now I have more mysteries - why did my family leave Odrowaz and go to Podszkle, and later to Luslawice? My great-grandfather was in the Army. Does anyone know if the Army garrisoned in Bukovina?

Thank you so much!
Shellie
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Shellie
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Post Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:46 pm      Post subject:
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Ok - I think that the village might be Podvlk, formerly located in Arva Megye, Hungary, near Piekelnik and Bukovina-Podszkle. The area is now in Poland. This village is also near Odrowaz.

NOTE: I am wrong!!! See messages below.


Last edited by Shellie on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shellie
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:29 pm      Post subject:
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I have a new clue in my search for the village where my grandfather's older siblings were born. I finally received my great-grandfather's naturalization application and it listed the names, birthdates and birthplaces of his children. But I still can't read the village name! Does anyone want to give their impressions of what this image says, compared to the village named in the previous image that I posted above?


Kulawiak naturalization Croppedjpg.jpg
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MDuplaga
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:50 am      Post subject:
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Shellie,

To me it looks like Podol_ Poland---So the only letter that made sense to me was a "z", so I googled "Podolz" and came up with 10 choices for "Podole".

One of the choices: Podole is a village in the admin. district of Gmina Grodek nad Dunajcem within Nowy Sacz County in Southern Poland-but you may want to google it yourself and see the other 9 possibilities to compare the regions with your known info.
MaryAnne
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Shellie
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:57 pm      Post subject:
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MaryAnne,
Thanks for the reply. The funny thing about Podole is that when I was in Poland with Zenon in 2009, we were on the highway and I saw a church in the distance. I asked if we could explore it and we found ourselves at the very old, but very interesting wooden church in Podole. I mentioned how remarkable this church was, built in the 1500's - in my Forefather's traces tour blog: http://blog.polishorigins.com/2009/07/16/16-shellies-tour-to-ancestral-places-day-6/

This church in Podole is not far from Luslawice, my grandfather's birthplace. Now wouldn't it be amazing if it turns out that my grandfather's brother and sister were born in Podole and I stood in that church without even realizing its significance to my family history?

Some translated info about the church here:
http://tinyurl.com/Podole


Last edited by Shellie on Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MDuplaga
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:53 am      Post subject:
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Shellie,

That's an interesting story and I do hope that it turns out to be the correct location. Like they say: In life there are no coincidences!!!! And I'm betting that you took photos of that Church???

MaryAnne
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Shellie
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:30 pm      Post subject:
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Here are a few photos of the church in Podole:


1.Podole church & cemetery.jpg
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1.Podole church & cemetery.jpg



2.Podole church inside.jpg
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2.Podole church inside.jpg



3.Podole church.jpg
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3.Podole church.jpg




Last edited by Shellie on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MDuplaga
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:26 pm      Post subject:
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Shellie,

Those are wonderful photos of the Podole Church--Have you figured out a way to verify if this is the correct location yet? (you have a Great camera!)

MaryAnne
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Shellie
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:36 pm      Post subject:
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I'm going to my local LDS family history center to order films for the parish tomorrow and I hope to confirm within the next 2 weeks.

Cross your fingers that I've found the right place. If this turns out to be the right place, it will be the most incredible stroke of luck since I've started researching my family. I called my cousin last night to tell her about my hunch. Her mother was my grandfather's oldest sister Stella. Stella's mother told Stella that she didn't have a birth certificate for Stella or her brother Frank because the church burned down. I became suspicious about burned church stories after I saw how many wooden churches survive in Poland and how many records are on file with the LDS family history centers. Burned church stories are an easy excuse for immigrants who could not get back to the village for a birth certificate before they left for America - and though my g-grandparents were not too far away in Luslawice before they left, it may still have been difficult to get there. Who knows.

It's not my camera that make the photos look good - it's my photo editing software (Picasa - free from Google). It allows me to straighten, sharpen, adjust color and create collages, just to name a few things. Smile

By the way, did you notice the "ghosts" of murals on the walls? There were once beautiful murals painted right on the walls, but sadly they were white washed. The white wash was removed a few years ago to try and recover the images beneath!



Podale village church wall.jpg
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Look closely and you can see the face of a person holding a staff or a long instrument? The legs are clearly visible near the pews. Click on photo to see larger view.
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Last edited by Shellie on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:55 am; edited 3 times in total
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MDuplaga
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:44 pm      Post subject:
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Shellie,

I'm glad you pointed out the murals-I noticed the walls were sort of strange looking-but did't realize why!

MaryAnne
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:50 am      Post subject:
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Shellie,

It will be really amazing if it occurs to be your grandfather's siblings birth place Exclamation And after short analysis of the map of area - route from Odrowaz to Luslawice, lack of similar places names and closeness to Luslawice - I think it is very probable.

I still remember while traveling back from Lusławice to Odrowąż we took different route. Only a few miles after Luslawice we noticed on the left side beautiful wooden church. You immediately asked for pulling up there and I pushed the brake shoe violently Wink.

I also remember that we were so positively surprised by kindness of the priest there who opened the church for us the and told about its interesting history (on the picture in the page you found: http://tinyurl.com/Podole ) . As we can read on the page the priest is the dean of the Zakliczyn deanery.

I will be eagerly waiting for your search results in Podole parish Exclamation
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Shellie
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:00 pm      Post subject:
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Well, I can’t believe it, but this WAS the village I was looking for! Of all the churches for me to stop and visit on the way from Luslawice, what were the chances that I would be at the very church where my great-uncle Frank and great-aunt Stella were baptized! This is such a wonderful, magical coincidence! I am so glad that I asked Zenon to turn off and explore this beautiful church.

The LDS family history center has records for this village. I examined film 2090647: Roman Catholic parish registers of births, marriages and deaths for Podole-Górowa (Nowy Sącz), Kraków, Poland, formerly Podole (Neusandez), Galizien, Austria.

No one expected me to find these records because my great-aunt Stella had always said that her mother didn’t have a birth certificate for her because the church burned down! The weird thing is that I just didn’t believe that story. I just had a hunch that the records were still out there. But the problem was that there was so little information to help me guess the church. First I was going to look for stories about burned churches – but that seemed like such an enormous undertaking. Then I tried to look for records in Wadowice (birthplace of Pope John Paul II) because some relatives said that my family was baptized in the same church as the Pope – but Wadowice church records are not available from the LDS family history center (and that church certainly did not burn). I also tried to explore Podszkle and Podvlk (see earlier messages), but those records are not filmed either.

The final clue to the mystery was my great-grandfather’s naturalization application that I ordered from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services (formerly the INS – Immigration & Naturalization Service). On one of the forms, he listed the birthplaces of his children. That’s when everything fell into place.
I wrote about the US Citizenship and Immigration Services in another thread at: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=2820

I’m now sure that the church fire was a fabricated story to explain a lost birth certificate. The interesting thing about this is that there are notations on both records that in 1912 the priest issued a testimonium ortus et baptismi – which is a record of baptism issued by the parish (I posted an image of my grandfather’s for an example). So I can only guess that sometime after these documents were issued for Frank and Stella, they were lost and my great-grandmother fabricated a plausible story about a church fire to be used when proof of birth was requested.

So now the mystery is why my family left Odrowaz and lived in Podole. I noticed that for Frank's record the godparents have a D. in front of their names and some notation directly below. I think we had a discussion on another thread about whether that stood for Dom or Domina. But my family were certainly peasant farmers. There is also a notation at the far right of the record that I can’t make out (the page was repaired with adhesive tape). The house number is also interesting. I’ve found several births in this village at house number 1. I wonder if house 1 was some kind of boarding house, or maybe the midwife’s home?



Kulawiak births, Podole 1905, 1907.jpg
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Kulawiak testimonium ortus et baptismi.jpg
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Last edited by Shellie on Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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