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MikeBayko



Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Replies: 10
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:04 pm      Post subject: pre-1784 records from parish in Jablonica Polska?
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Hello, I am new here, and am wondering if anyone here knows enough about the greek catholic records from the bishopric of Przemysl to maybe give me some advice or insight.

My great grandfather came from the village Jablonica Polska, gmina Haczow in Podkarpackie. I found records from his village in Przemysl archive online from 1784 to 1859, but there is nothing before 1784, at least nothing online it seems.

If anyone knows where such records prior to 1784 may be, please help. Jablonica Polska's parish was part of the Rymanow deanery. Is there maybe a Przemysl archive for records before 1784? Or are the older records maybe stored at local parishes?
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aleksanderz
PolishOrigins Team


Joined: 21 Jul 2017
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:46 am      Post subject:
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Hello Mike,

Welcome to our forum!

Metrical books in Galicia were introduced only after the region was incorporated into the Austrian Empire. This was a part of the so-called Josephian Reforms (from the name of Emperor Joseph II who started his rule in 1780, after the death of his mother Maria Theresa). Before Joseph started his reforms, there was no habit nor a rule of keeping the registers by the local parishes. Therefore, the books for Jabłonica Polska prior to 1784 most likely do not exist.

You might find it of interest that we toured to Jabłonica Polska twice last year. One tour was in search of Greek-Catholic records (our CEO Zenon was the guide), the other one was focused on Roman-Catholic genealogy (with Lucjan as the guide).

Indeed, in plenty of cases, the Galician books are kept directly in the parish offices. With Greek-Catholic records, the situation is more complicated as the former churches of this rite were transformed into Roman-Catholic churches after World War II. Zenon has visited the former Greek-Catholic church in Jabłonica Polska with our guests. Unfortunately, there were no Greek-Catholic records in its office. However, he managed to learn that they are now kept in the Civil Registry Office in Haczów, where the records from 1868-1884 and 1914-1928 date frames are stored.

Therefore, digging backward from 1784 is most likely not doable (although one can never be sure, genealogy is full of surprises). There are, however, some options to dig forward from 1859 if that would be of your interest.

Kind regards,
Aleksander
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MikeBayko



Joined: 03 Mar 2019
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:52 pm      Post subject:
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That is very unfortunate to hear. I am interested in digging forward though, since I don't actually know my great grandfather's mother.

I just feel like my tree ends really abruptly because already my 4th great grandfather was born in 1737, a good while before the reformations.

Now I have a million more questions I could ask, but I suppose the two best questions to ask would be if such records somehow still exist, would it be possible if they were moved to some other historically greek catholic parish, and would it be worth searching for them; or is there any other possible way of digging back further without means of church records?
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aleksanderz
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Joined: 21 Jul 2017
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:43 pm      Post subject:
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The church records were the earliest type of documents that provided information on one's birth, marriage or death. Civil records came later, therefore, unfortunately, there would be no other vital records that you could search.

There is always a chance that somehow, by accident, the records are stored in another parish, but the chances are slim. I have browsed various sources, including Ukrainian genealogy forums and none of them mentions records for Jabłonica pre-1784. Also, as I mentioned, our team investigated this while personally being in the area.
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MikeBayko



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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:12 pm      Post subject:
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That is very unfortunate to hear, but thank you so much for the help.

I will be sure to look into the records after 1859 in Haczow, I would love to find out who my great grandfather's mother was.
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MikeBayko



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Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:59 pm      Post subject: Jablonica Polska greek catholic record gaps
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Hello again,

In the archiwum Panstwowe v Przemyslu, there are two notable gaps in the scanned records from the greek catholic parish in Jablonica Polska and Malinowka, the first and largest gap is 1801 to 1829, with the records starting back again in 1830. The second gap is from 1844 to 1848, with the records resuming in 1849.

http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/show.php?zesp=142&cd=0&ser=0&syg=7700

I know it isn't really necessary to have these records, but it would be so nice and convenient if they were available for these year gaps.

I would really appreciate it if anyone knows anything about either of these year gaps. Were they recorded in a different parish because the one in Jablonica Polska was undergoing maintenance or something? Were they moved to a different archive somewhere other than Przemysl? Are they not in a good enough condition to be copied and scanned online? Or were they somehow destroyed?

Thank you.



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On page 55, there is ANUS 1801, with some latin notes that I assume to be saying that they were copied word for word from the original, but then it says something about dekanat sanok below that.
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:00 am      Post subject: Re: Jablonica Polska greek catholic record gaps
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MikeBayko wrote:
Hello again,

In the archiwum Panstwowe v Przemyslu, there are two notable gaps in the scanned records from the greek catholic parish in Jablonica Polska and Malinowka, the first and largest gap is 1801 to 1829, with the records starting back again in 1830. The second gap is from 1844 to 1848, with the records resuming in 1849.

http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/show.php?zesp=142&cd=0&ser=0&syg=7700

I know it isn't really necessary to have these records, but it would be so nice and convenient if they were available for these year gaps.

I would really appreciate it if anyone knows anything about either of these year gaps. Were they recorded in a different parish because the one in Jablonica Polska was undergoing maintenance or something? Were they moved to a different archive somewhere other than Przemysl? Are they not in a good enough condition to be copied and scanned online? Or were they somehow destroyed?

Thank you.


Mike,

The copies of the registers held in the National Archives in Przemyśl are just one set of a number of copies of the registers which had been made. The gaps do not mean that records were not kept for those years. The gaps signify that copies of the records for those years do not exist in the records held by that particular archive. Other places where copies of the registers existed usually included a government office in Vienna and the archives of the diocese to which the parish belonged. The original books usually were housed in the parish itself. Records housed in locations other than the Polish National Archives usually have not been digitized and therefore cannot be found online. After WWI the Austrian government was not diligent about returning copies to Poland, which probably explains the gaps. By contacting the parish itself you should be able to determine whether the originals without gaps exist in the parish archives.

Here is a translation of the Latin notations you posted: “The year 1801:Here ends the copy of the register of births of the parish of Jablonica from the original Vol. II, page 28.” This notation is followed by: “I attest that it was collected from and agrees with the original word for word.” Dated: March 25, 1838 and signed by the administrator of the Deanery (Polish: dekenat).

In my opinion, the notations indicate that the copies which ended up in Przemyśl were divided into a number of volumes and this set (and probably the missing set from 1801 through 1829) were examined and certified by the administrator of the deanery in 1838.

Although this response does not answer your original questions about the current existence or nonexistence of records for the gap years, I hope it sheds some light on the subject.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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