marcelproustPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 4193
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:35 am
Post subject: Re: Translation Help
may28991 wrote: | Please help me with this translation, it maybe Russion or Latin. |
its in latin. If you wrote a parish name it would be easier for me to read the name of the in the last column
born on 16th day of April 1828
baptised on 16th day of April 1828
house number 28
given name: Adalbertus (Wojciech)
catholic
male child born with legal spouses
parents:
father: peasant Kazimierz Kruk,
mother: Anastazja, daughter of Andrzej Czerniecki
accoucheuse: Anna Działo
godparents: Stanisław Kruk and Anna Działo, wife or daughter??? of Józef Dzialo, peasants from Brzyskowola???
_________________ My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU
PAYPAL: [email protected]
Last edited by marcelproust on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:11 am; edited 3 times in total
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Stanislaw
Joined: 12 Jun 2019
Replies: 23
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:51 am
Post subject: Re: Translation Help
may28991 wrote: | Please help me with this translation, it maybe Russion or Latin. |
Adalbertus (Wojciech) Kruk born/baptized 16/16 Apr 1828 in house nr 28, catholic, legitimate son of Casimirus (Kazimierz) Kruk, peasant, and Anastasia (Anastazja) [daughter] of Andrea (Andrzej) Czerniecki. Godparents: Stanisław Kruk and Anna Działowa (female form of Działo) wife of Józef Działo peasants from Brzyska Wola. Midwife the same as above (Anna Działowa)
Stanisław
_________________ Stanisław
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Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:53 am
Post subject: Translation Help #2
Please help by translating this record from St Joseph's parish in Tarnawiec
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Cwikla Malgorzata Birth Record 1830 |
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Stanislaw
Joined: 12 Jun 2019
Replies: 23
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: Translation Help #2
may28991 wrote: | Please help by translating this record from St Joseph's parish in Tarnawiec |
Margaretha (Małgorzata) born 26th, baptized 27th of June 1830, house nr 63, dau. of Adalbertus (Wojciech) Cwikła, farmer and Marianna [dau.] of Basileo (Bazyli) Marulla. Godparents: Sebastianus Raday and Agnes (Agnieszka) Cicheniowa, wife of Laurentii (Wawrzyniec) Cichen, peasants from Brzyska Wola. Midwife Marianna Staroniowa.
Stanisław
_________________ Stanisław
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Translation Help #2
Stanislaw wrote: | may28991 wrote: | Please help by translating this record from St Joseph's parish in Tarnawiec |
Margaretha (Małgorzata) born 26th, baptized 27th of June 1830, house nr 63, dau. of Adalbertus (Wojciech) Cwikła, farmer and Marianna [dau.] of Basileo (Bazyli) Marulla. Godparents: Sebastianus Raday and Agnes (Agnieszka) Cicheniowa, wife of Laurentii (Wawrzyniec) Cichen, peasants from Brzyska Wola. Midwife Marianna Staroniowa.
Stanisław |
Hi Stanisław & may28991,
Stanisław, you may find the attached PDF of Latin given names with their English and Polish versions useful in the future. I’ve posted it numerous times during the more than six years I’ve been doing Latin translations on the PO forum, but it seemed that it would be more convenient to post it again here. For common names such as Marianna I use the 19th Century Polish spelling as Maryanna. The reason is no big deal but it has always seemed anachronistic to me to use the current spelling for individuals from an earlier time. The Latin version lists the Nominative (mianownik) followed by the Genitive (dopełniacz) and the Gender.
May28991, A simple rule of thumb for determining whether a record is in Latin or in Russian is that records from Galicia after the First Partition (1772) until after WWI are always in Latin. (The columnar format was adopted soon after Austria took control of Galicia. Records in Russian are found from 1868 until after WWI and are from the Russian Partition (Królestwo Polskie). Records in Russian are never found in Galicia or in the German Partition (Province of Posen; Prowincia Poznańska). If you have other records from Galicia I would encourage you to try your hand at reading the record yourself. Obviously Latin birth records from Galicia don’t require proficiency in Latin to make sense of the record. The columnar format makes the record super simple. Generally, there is not a complete sentence in those records (with the occasional exception of statements like “Jan Mądrala curatus loci baptizavit (eum or eam is understood)” which would be translated as “Jan Mądrala, the curate of (this) place baptized (him or her).” What you may need to understand the record is the attached list of given names and the attached terms for distinguishing classes of peasants and of szlachta with a basic list of Latin genealogical vocabulary like the one at Family Search https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Latin_Genealogical_Word_List
Since about 65% of our English words are derived from Latin sometimes an educated guess can get you very close to the meaning of the Latin word. Keep in mind that these records are not great works of literature but are simple and utilitarian. Trying to understand a columnar format entry is not like trying to translate the Orations of Cicero or the poetry of Catullus or the Satires of Juvenal, all of which do require a degree of proficiency in Latin to translate.
As a carryover from years of teaching Latin, I would prefer to spend an hour helping someone to understand a record rather than ten minutes providing a translation of the same record. It is the old story of giving a person a fish versus teaching that person to fish. In my opinion the value of teaching far outstrips the value of giving the fish.
Anyway, my time on the soapbox is over for today.
Wishing you success,
Dave
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Vocabulary Distinguishing Classes of Peasants, Nobles & Clergy.pdf |
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GIVEN NAMES-LATIN, ENGLISH, POLISH.pdf |
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Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:20 am
Post subject: Cwikla Malgorzata Birth Record 1830.JPG
Thank you very much Stanislaw and David, really appreciate it.
Thanks again,
Larry
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:10 pm
Post subject: Latin Records translation
I was told to put these here because they are Latin,.
Please help,
Larry
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:16 pm
Post subject: Marriage Record from Parafia św. Józefa w Tarnawcu
Please translate. I think it is in Latin?
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:05 pm
Post subject: Marriage Record Translation
Hello, I was hoping that someone would be able to help me translate the following marriage record. Thank you so much.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Latin Records translation
may28991 wrote: | I was told to put these here because they are Latin,.
Please help,
Larry |
Larry,
Here are the two marriages from the USA. The Polish marriage will follow as time permits.
Dave
Kruk-Leniart
Col. 1: Family Names: Kruk, Leniart
Col. 2: Year, Day & Month (of the marriage): 1902, 13th of May
Col. 3: Register of the Marriage:
I, the undersigned, after the three proclamations of the banns had been announced, and after having received the usual consent of the contracting parties through words, joined in the present* marriage* Joseph Kruk from Brzezka Wola, the son of Thomas/Tomasz and Rosalie/Rozalia and Agnes1 from Brzezka Wola, the daughter of Simon/Szymon and Eve/Ewa in the presence of the witnesses Bartholomew Hajdasz and Maria Joniec
Signature of Priest: S.P. Lozowski, the pastor
Col. 4: Dispensations: Blank
Note: in the present marriage/de presenti matrimonio: A technicality—This is the actual marriage vs. a promise of entering into a future marriage.
Note 1 The given name of the bride was entered incorrectly in Latin. Instead of Agnem it should be Agnetem.
Bzdoń-Gagosz
Col. 1: Family Names: John Bzdoń & Maria Gagosz
Col. 2: Year, Day & Month (of the marriage): September 22, 1908
Col. 3: Register of the Marriage:
I, the undersigned, after the three proclamations of the banns had been announced, and after having received the usual consent of the contracting parties through words, joined in the present* marriage* John Bzdoń from blank), the son of Simon/Szymon and Eve/Ewa (née) Socha and Maria Gagosz from (blank). the daughter of Stephen/Szczepan/Stefan and Maria (née) Baj in the presence of the witnesses John Rudek and Anna Pracoń
Signature of Priest: S. Lozowski
Col. 4: Dispensations: Blank
Note: in the present marriage/de presenti matrimonio: A technicality—This is the actual marriage vs. a promise of entering into a future marriage.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Marriage Record from Parafia św. Józefa w Tarnawcu
may28991 wrote: | Please translate. I think it is in Latin? |
Larry,
Here is the marriage from Poland.
Dave
The marriage record is entered in the columnar format and there are four major divisions of columns. The major divisions also are divided into sub-columns.
Major Division #1
Series = Number (of the marriage for the year): Missing
Dies et Mensis = Day & Month : February 12,1827
Major Division #2: SPONSUS = GROOM
Numerus Domus = Number of the House: From number 29 of the bride to number 28 of the groom
NOMEN = NAME: Kazimierz Kruk, the legitimate son of the industrious* Józef Kruk and of Helena Czerwonkowa
Religio = Religion
Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Aetas = Age: 34
Caelebs = Bachelor: Blank
Viduus = Widower: Checked
Major Division #3: SPONSA = BRIDE
NOMEN = NAME: Anastazja Czerniecka, the legitimate daughter of the industrious* Andrzej Czerniecki and of Anna Cichoniowna
Religio = Religion
Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Aetas = Age: 24
Caelebs = Bachelorette: Checked
Vidua = Widow: Blank
Major Division #4: TESTES et eorum Conditio = WITNESSES and their status/ condition of life/occupation: Kazimierz Wilkos, Jan Sliwa, peasants from Brzyska Wola
Note: *laboriosus/industrious was an adjective used to describe an individual as a peasant.
Final entry: Leopold Lewicki, the curate, blessed the marriage.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Marriage Record Translation
TifaStrife wrote: | Hello, I was hoping that someone would be able to help me translate the following marriage record. Thank you so much. |
Hi,
In Latin records the surnames of individuals found in the record as well as the names of places appear in the vernacular rather than in Latin. My rendering of place names and of surnames is my best interpretation of the priest’s handwriting with no guaranties of accuracy. (The translation of the Latin text is accurate.) The final entries which deal with matters of law involve a lot of information crammed into a very limited amount of space and the sentences are rather jumbled together. I summarized the entries rather than spending a frustrating amount of time in order to produce a word for word translation.
When posting a record for translation it makes matters much less frustrating if some basic information is included with the request. Minimal information would include the name of the parish from which the record originated, the known names (especially the surnames) of individuals who are expected to appear in the record, and any known geographical information.
Here is the translation.
Wishing you success in your research,
Dave
The marriage record is entered in the columnar format and there are four major divisions of columns. The major divisions also are divided into sub-columns.
Major Division #1
Series = Number (of the marriage for the year): 35
Dies et Mensis = Day & Month : October 4 (1892)
Major Division #2: SPONSUS = GROOM
Numerus Domus = Number of the House: 219/280 (First house number should be that of the groom and the second should be that of the bride; Place: Ma?aśto nyska(?)
NOMEN = NAME: Jan/John Rosmanśn??, the son of Grzegorz/Gregory and Julianna née Schey
Religio = Religion
Catholica = Catholic: Greek Catholic
Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Caelebs = Bachelor: Checked
Viduus = Widower: Blank
Aetas = Age: 23 years
Major Division #3: SPONSA = BRIDE
NOMEN = NAME: Maria Radłoska, the daughter of Teodor/Theodore and Julianna née Gawł?-oda
Religio = Religion
Catholica = Catholic: Greek Catholic
Aut alia = Or other: Blank
Caelebs = Bachelorette: Checked
Vidua = Widow: Blank
Aetas = Age: 21 & 3/4
Major Division #4: TESTES et eorum Conditio = WITNESSES and their status/ condition of life/occupation: Paweł/Paul (can’t make out the surname) (&) Jan/John (can’t make out the surname), townsmen
Final entries: (These entries cover the legalities of the wedding.) The following were produced: The judicial consent decree from the minors and orphans court dated September 26, 1892 (Although the bride was 21 she was still considered a minor.); a certificate of the announcement of the banns; the statement of Teodor Radłoski, the father of the bride granting permission to his underage daughter, Maria, to enter into marriage with Jan. The statement in which he grants said permission appears in Polish, since he would not have understood Latin. A statement that the three proclamations of the banns had taken place according to the law follows. And the final statement is that Josefat Czarkowski(?), the assistant pastor, blessed the marriage.
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Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:41 am
Post subject: Re: Latin Records translation
dnowicki wrote: | may28991 wrote: | I was told to put these here because they are Latin,.
Please help,
Larry |
Larry,
Here are the two marriages from the USA. The Polish marriage will follow as time permits.
Dave
Kruk-Leniart
Col. 1: Family Names: Kruk, Leniart
Col. 2: Year, Day & Month (of the marriage): 1902, 13th of May
Col. 3: Register of the Marriage:
I, the undersigned, after the three proclamations of the banns had been announced, and after having received the usual consent of the contracting parties through words, joined in the present* marriage* Joseph Kruk from Brzezka Wola, the son of Thomas/Tomasz and Rosalie/Rozalia and Agnes1 from Brzezka Wola, the daughter of Simon/Szymon and Eve/Ewa in the presence of the witnesses Bartholomew Hajdasz and Maria Joniec
Signature of Priest: S.P. Lozowski, the pastor
Col. 4: Dispensations: Blank
Note: in the present marriage/de presenti matrimonio: A technicality—This is the actual marriage vs. a promise of entering into a future marriage.
Note 1 The given name of the bride was entered incorrectly in Latin. Instead of Agnem it should be Agnetem.
Bzdoń-Gagosz
Col. 1: Family Names: John Bzdoń & Maria Gagosz
Col. 2: Year, Day & Month (of the marriage): September 22, 1908
Col. 3: Register of the Marriage:
I, the undersigned, after the three proclamations of the banns had been announced, and after having received the usual consent of the contracting parties through words, joined in the present* marriage* John Bzdoń from blank), the son of Simon/Szymon and Eve/Ewa (née) Socha and Maria Gagosz from (blank). the daughter of Stephen/Szczepan/Stefan and Maria (née) Baj in the presence of the witnesses John Rudek and Anna Pracoń
Signature of Priest: S. Lozowski
Col. 4: Dispensations: Blank
Note: in the present marriage/de presenti matrimonio: A technicality—This is the actual marriage vs. a promise of entering into a future marriage. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:27 pm
Post subject: re: Latin word help
Hello,
I've searched multiple Latin glossaries and cannot find an answer. What is "P...irti" --the word before consortis in these two death records? I assume it is an adjective since it looks to be used for both a female or male spouse who has died?
Thank you.
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Stanislaw
Joined: 12 Jun 2019
Replies: 23
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: re: Latin word help
Kim K wrote: | Hello,
I've searched multiple Latin glossaries and cannot find an answer. What is "P...irti" --the word before consortis in these two death records? I assume it is an adjective since it looks to be used for both a female or male spouse who has died?
Thank you. |
derelicti
derelictae
Anna derelicti consortis Antonii Habas uxor ...
Joannes Cholewa derelictae consortis Reginae natae Kowalczyk uxor ...
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derelictus#Latin
_________________ Stanisław
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