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mestanton



Joined: 14 May 2015
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:52 am      Post subject: Noble ancestor described as Miotełka or feather duster
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In a 1739 baptism record #661 in Zgliczyn Kościelna parish in the village of Stawiszyn Łaziska, my ancestor Generous Dominicus Stanislaw Stawiski is described as "dicti Miotełka." I have translated the Latin "dicti" as "the said" and the Polish Miotełka as "feather duster." Later in the baptism, he and his wife are both described as nobles.

In an online search, I found an image of nobles, one with a feather duster on the side of his hat. What is the significance of the feather duster? Is it an honorary title? A position in the court? The image is too big to attach, but here is the link Polish_magnates_1576-1586.PNG

Marilyn
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:20 pm      Post subject: Re: Noble ancestor described as Miotełka or feather duster
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mestanton wrote:
In a 1739 baptism record #661 in Zgliczyn Kościelna parish in the village of Stawiszyn Łaziska, my ancestor Generous Dominicus Stanislaw Stawiski is described as "dicti Miotełka." I have translated the Latin "dicti" as "the said" and the Polish Miotełka as "feather duster." Later in the baptism, he and his wife are both described as nobles.

In an online search, I found an image of nobles, one with a feather duster on the side of his hat. What is the significance of the feather duster? Is it an honorary title? A position in the court? The image is too big to attach, but here is the link Polish_magnates_1576-1586.PNG

Marilyn


Hi Marilyn,

Here is a link to a site which shows coats of arms of Polish nobles. Perhaps you may find it interesting. http://www.herby.com.pl/
Some observations regarding your translation...generosus/well-born/urodzony is an adjective which describes the class of noble to which a person belonged—the owner of at least one village. I take it dominicus is your translation of an abbreviation. The word is an adjective which means “of the Lord”. Thus Dominica, Latin for Sunday, is the Lord’s day. The word you want is most probably “Dominus”, which means “Lord”. When the word is used as part of a title for anyone other than Jesus Christ it has various nuanced meanings. In England it would have been used to refer to a knight and would be translated as “Sir”. In Polish the best translation is “Pan”. Dicti in your record is the Genitive Singular Masculine of the Perfect Passive Participle of the verb dico (to say). While your translation is correct the verb dico is one of those very commonly used words which admits of many uses and translations. A more accurate translation would be “called” and the phrase would read “Of Stanisław Łaziska, called Miotelka (Feather Duster)". Miotelka would be a nickname used to distinguish him from other men with the same given and surname. I recall a conversation with Elżbieta a few years ago about the topic of nicknames used for nobles but don’t remember where the posts were. I also recall a list of titles used for nobles and court officials but am sorry to say that it is one of those things I can’t find now.

Given the terms used to describe Stanisław I would doubt that “miotelka” was used as an honorific in his case. My guess is that there were other men named Stanisław Łaziska and the priest entered it as a nickname.

Hoping this helps you,

Dave
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mestanton



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Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:51 pm      Post subject: Re: Noble ancestor described as Miotełka or feather duster
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dnowicki wrote:
mestanton wrote:
In a 1739 baptism record #661 in Zgliczyn Kościelna parish in the village of Stawiszyn Łaziska, my ancestor Generous Dominicus Stanislaw Stawiski is described as "dicti Miotełka." I have translated the Latin "dicti" as "the said" and the Polish Miotełka as "feather duster." Later in the baptism, he and his wife are both described as nobles.

In an online search, I found an image of nobles, one with a feather duster on the side of his hat. What is the significance of the feather duster? Is it an honorary title? A position in the court? The image is too big to attach, but here is the link Polish_magnates_1576-1586.PNG

Marilyn


Hi Marilyn,

Here is a link to a site which shows coats of arms of Polish nobles. Perhaps you may find it interesting. http://www.herby.com.pl/
Some observations regarding your translation...generosus/well-born/urodzony is an adjective which describes the class of noble to which a person belonged—the owner of at least one village. I take it dominicus is your translation of an abbreviation. The word is an adjective which means “of the Lord”. Thus Dominica, Latin for Sunday, is the Lord’s day. The word you want is most probably “Dominus”, which means “Lord”. When the word is used as part of a title for anyone other than Jesus Christ it has various nuanced meanings. In England it would have been used to refer to a knight and would be translated as “Sir”. In Polish the best translation is “Pan”. Dicti in your record is the Genitive Singular Masculine of the Perfect Passive Participle of the verb dico (to say). While your translation is correct the verb dico is one of those very commonly used words which admits of many uses and translations. A more accurate translation would be “called” and the phrase would read “Of Stanisław Łaziska, called Miotelka (Feather Duster)". Miotelka would be a nickname used to distinguish him from other men with the same given and surname. I recall a conversation with Elżbieta a few years ago about the topic of nicknames used for nobles but don’t remember where the posts were. I also recall a list of titles used for nobles and court officials but am sorry to say that it is one of those things I can’t find now.

Given the terms used to describe Stanisław I would doubt that “miotelka” was used as an honorific in his case. My guess is that there were other men named Stanisław Łaziska and the priest entered it as a nickname.

Hoping this helps you,

Dave


Thanks, Dave, for your reply and insights into the Latin and Polish languages. Stanisław Stawiski was described in a couple of records as "Miotełka" or feather duster. Did you find the link in my message which depicts a male noble with what looks like a feather duster on the side of his hat? I have seen a website with different names/functions of nobles, such as pantry, but I did not see one for feather duster.

The other baptisms on the facing pages were done by the local priest, but this one for the twins of Stanisław Stawiski was done by an outside Father. Would you please translate the information about the priest who did the baptism? Here is the record #661 and the facing pages for comparison.

Marilyn

Marilyn



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Sophia
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:46 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Marilyn and Dave,
I am jumping in just to help with the image of the "hat with feather duster," and what a hat it is! Marilyn, your link did not work. Dave, try this link instead:
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-polish-magnates-1576-1586-134712950.html
You'll note that it is a pay-for-use stock image, so I would not want to make a copy of it.
Best regards,
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:04 pm      Post subject: Re: Noble ancestor described as Miotełka or feather duster
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Thanks, Dave, for your reply and insights into the Latin and Polish languages. Stanisław Stawiski was described in a couple of records as "Miotełka" or feather duster. Did you find the link in my message which depicts a male noble with what looks like a feather duster on the side of his hat? I have seen a website with different names/functions of nobles, such as pantry, but I did not see one for feather duster.

The other baptisms on the facing pages were done by the local priest, but this one for the twins of Stanisław Stawiski was done by an outside Father. Would you please translate the information about the priest who did the baptism? Here is the record #661 and the facing pages for comparison.

Marilyn

Marilyn[/quote]

Hi Marilyn & Sophia,

Marilyn, Here is the translation of the info in the record regarding the priest who did the baptism: “On the 9th day of April in the Year of Our Lord 1739 I, Brother Ludwik Krasuski(?) of the Order of Friars Minor of Regular Observance, with the consent of the reverend pastor of Zgliczyn, baptized...etc.
Some thoughts about Ludwik...He was a member of the Franciscan order, which has various subdivisions. He was among those of the “regular observance”. The letters S.P.F. would specify the group to which he belonged. Unfortunately, I’m not familiar with the meaning of that acronym. Prior to the late 19th Century in Poland ordination to the R. C. priesthood was pretty much the exclusive domain of the szlachta. Since few peasants were literate they were not qualified to enter a major seminary where literacy was a prerequisite for admission as a student. ( In the late 19th century the bishop of Włocławek did set up a prep school for the education of promising non-noble students to prepare them for seminary studies.) This was quite different from how a sociology prof I had described 20th Century clerics in America. I remember him saying “The middle class is the group from which most men either ascend or descend to the priesthood, depending on your view of the priesthood.” (He was a priest himself.)

Here is a link to an article on noble titles, for what it is worth: https://nobilitytitles.net/pages/Polish-and-Lithuanian-Nobility.html

It seems to me that there is no particular import to the fact that Ludwik, rather than the local pastor, baptized the twins. Just as today, there could have been multiple reasons why Ludwik had been asked to baptize the infants—he may have been a relative, a good friend or a priest the couple liked, etc.

Sophia, Yea, that is quite a distinctive chapeau, although it is definitely not my style. I find a baseball cap to be just fine. I guess the style of men’s hats does change. Before you posted your comments I had Googled the link Marilyn provided and found the image on Wikipedia.

Marilyn & Sophia, On Wikipedia the artist who painted the image is identified as Jan Matejko, who was a famous prolific 19th Century Polish artist of the Romantic school. His specialty was Polish historical works. I’ve found his paintings useful but I wouldn’t credit the hat as being dead on accurate. Majetko was painting historical images from earlier centuries and it is not like they were based on photos. A lot of the images involve a healthy dose of artistic license. Wikipedia identifies the dude in the hat as Sebastian Lubomirski (1546-1613) and it would seem to me to be stretch to make a connection to Stanisław’s nickname based on Sebastian’s headgear.

I’m certainly no expert on the szlachta since the only noble title my ancestors had was “kosa bearer” but from a linguistic point of view I still believe that Miolteka was a nickname used to distinguish him from others in the clan.

Wishing you enjoyment and success,

Dave
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sirdan
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:25 am      Post subject:
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I had quite good reading part of this document It explains origins of Stawiszyn name. Looks like more people had dicti at name and that was common in that area for Stawiski's. Miotełka was kind of nick name, they took nick's to distinguish between many Stawinskis in the villages triangle.
There was one famous Stawiski noble, Gozdawa coat of arms. I dont know if whole Stawiski family was of same coat of arms, but article says thre were 80(!) families under Gozdawa of Stawinski line. But those from XViii century were minor nobles, they did not posses much land.



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mestanton



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:04 pm      Post subject: Noble ancestor described as Miotełka or feather duster
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Thanks, everyone. Perhaps Stanisław Stawiski had a very big head of stiff hair and was nicknamed feather duster.

Marilyn
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mestanton



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Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:49 pm      Post subject: Stawiski in Stawiszyn
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sirdan wrote:
I had quite good reading part of this document It explains origins of Stawiszyn name. Looks like more people had dicti at name and that was common in that area for Stawiski's. Miotełka was kind of nick name, they took nick's to distinguish between many Stawinskis in the villages triangle.
There was one famous Stawiski noble, Gozdawa coat of arms. I dont know if whole Stawiski family was of same coat of arms, but article says thre were 80(!) families under Gozdawa of Stawinski line. But those from XViii century were minor nobles, they did not posses much land.


Thank you very much for the document link to the Biezun parish history. I enjoyed reading about the Stawiszyn village triangle and the individual Stawiski's and others by name who contributed to the parish mentioned in the 1775 visitation. Yes, "dicti" was used after the names: Bartlomiej Stawiski "Sas dictii (nazywany)" that Google translated as "Saxon" and Józef Stawiski "Ogarek" as "Stump." I am having trouble translating the word "Huleżacy" that Google changes to Hideżacy. Can you help?

The Stawiski's listed lived in the early-mid 1700s. My ancestor Stanisław Stawiski was born in 1715 of Jan and Marianna while the previously mentioned Bartlomiej (born in 1692 to Kazimierz and Justyna) was godfather for the first child born 1739 to Stanisław and Theodozya. And then in 1741 Stanislaw and his wife Theodozya were godparents for Hedwig daughter of Bartlomiej and his wife Helen Czerzicka. More godparent relationships are in the records for these numerous Stawiski cousins.

I appreciate your posting of this source that contained individual Stawiski names.

Marilyn
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