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sirdan
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Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Replies: 304
Location: ** Southeast Pole**

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:46 pm      Post subject:
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Ouch, i did not notice polish record.
However, Balo surname still sounds little strange to my ears. I mean, it resembles some eastern words. I am just trying to match things and get a backround of the story. There are so many surname variants on US censuses. That means, enumerators had difficult time to understand Antoni speech. What if Balo family was speaking some of polish dialect.

After little search learned that there was (still exists probably) podlaski language. This dialect is a mix of polish, belarussian and ukrainian, maybe lithuanian. So, right, Balo might be origin surname of locals in podlasie area.
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2781
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:58 am      Post subject:
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sirdan wrote:
Ouch, i did not notice polish record.
However, Balo surname still sounds little strange to my ears. I mean, it resembles some eastern words. I am just trying to match things and get a backround of the story. There are so many surname variants on US censuses. That means, enumerators had difficult time to understand Antoni speech. What if Balo family was speaking some of polish dialect.

After little search learned that there was (still exists probably) podlaski language. This dialect is a mix of polish, belarussian and ukrainian, maybe lithuanian. So, right, Balo might be origin surname of locals in podlasie area.


Hi Sirdan,

Often the variations of both Polish surnames and given names, especially in the first quarter of the 20th Century, were the result of the fact that the enumerator was not familiar with the sounds of the Polish language and did not understand the language. Thus, even a person who had clear diction and spoke “high class standard” Polish would not necessarily be understood by the enumerator. Usually when the enumerator was not of Polish descent the spelling of names can be exceedingly strange. I took a quick look at the 1900, 1905, 1915, & 1920 censuses. As far as I can see, the only enumerator who was likely to understand and/or speak Polish was Hyman Cohn (in the 1915 census), who was obviously Jewish and possibly either born in Poland or the descendant of parents who were born in Poland. It is no accident that he was able to provide a better return than is found in the returns for the other years. I usually find it helpful to understand the dynamics of a return by considering who was the enumerator. The other variant is the individual who provided the information. Unfortunately, that information is not found until the 1940 Federal Census. The bottom line is that one should not expect too much from census returns.

Dave
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Jan_Barlow



Joined: 12 Oct 2019
Replies: 20
Location: Auburn, Maine

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:03 pm      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
Jan_Barlow wrote:
Hi Dave,

Thanks for all the advice and info! So in your expert opinion, I want to clarify for myself. Antoni and Johanna, Antoni's Parents, and his parents were all serfs working on this large farm(we are talking 3 generations at this point!). The way I have understood this for the past day is that all of these ancestors of mine were in a nutshell--slaves. Either Antoni and Johanna escaped or they were set free by their Lord. Do I have this right? or are the definitions and descriptions I have been reading up on serfdom(particularly in Poland) paint a worse picture than what actually occurred? I can't even imagine that they earned or saved any kind of money for even a passage on a ship. Let alone migrate who knows what kind of distance to even make it to a port. All I can think is that if they didn't do what they did, my brother and I wouldn't exist.
Originally a few weeks ago, my ultimate goal was to find my last name, and hopefully reach a few generations back. But quite candidly, after only a few days I started searching I realized I wanted much more. Ultimately I would like to find Antoni's siblings and trace that into surviving relatives/cousins living in Poland because I plan to go there either this summer, or at the very least go in the summer of 2021. My father for whatever his reasons let his Polish heritage fade, and besides having a mother with a very toxic personality, I don't understand why. I guess having a 19 month old daughter really put this all into perspective for me. My wife in 100% Thai, and we teach our daughter Thai culture and language as much as we speak English....but what about my own Polish culture that I never really had? It is far far past time I began tracing those roots, even if I essentially have no known (Polish)family to share it with. I am also now pretty adamant that I will pursue a dual-citizenship/passport with Poland. I have been telling this to several friends and family today, and they all ask me " Why would you do that??" my only response is, "why the hell would I not??" I feel like if my dad was still alive he would be very proud. I am not sure if anyone on the board here has done this dual citizenship process before and how extensive it is. I have looked in to it, told briefly what it entails, and was quoted up to $4,000.00 in price from the genealogist I found the other day. That seems pretty high to me.


Hi Jan,

It is wonderful that you and your wife are exposing your young daughter to the language and culture of your wife’s ancestry. Being bilingual or trilingual always gives an individual an advantage over someone who speaks only one language. At her young age it is an ideal time for her to be exposed to a second language.

I would like to make it clear that not all of my opinions are those of an expert. My field of expertise by training includes the languages I taught, Latin, Classical Greek, Polish, and Spanish. Polish history and culture were an integral part of teaching the language and the literature so I suppose that I could admit to a certain degree of expertise in those two areas. But all those details are not really important to anyone except myself.

Anyhow, on to your folwark related question. Point #1: It was Antoni’s wife Joanna and her parents (Józef & Rozalia) who lived (and worked) on a folwark. Point #2: Antoni’s parents and grandparents were peasant farmers who did not live and work on a folwark. Point #3: After 1864 none of the peasants in Russian Poland aka The Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) were serfs. By a decree of the Czar in 1864 all the serfs in Russian Poland were emancipated. The emancipation also promised land reform with the hope for land ownership but the land reform never came to pass. Instead the number of landless peasants actually increased from 220,000 in 1870 to 849,000 in 1891. So much for the promise of land reform. It was a hunger for land, which could not be satisfied for many peasants in Russian Poland, which was a prime factor in motivating the massive immigration of Polish peasants to the USA from 1890 until the beginning of WWI.

I take it that so far you have not located the ship’s manifest for Antoni and/or Joanna’s arrival in the States. If, as earlier posts indicate, Antoni left for New Jersey first and Joanna followed two years later you would need to search for two maifests. It was quite common for families from Russian Poland to immigrate in stages. First the husband would immigrate, find a job and save enough money to pay for the passage of his wife (and children) later. This appears to have been the case for Antoni and Joanna. Without locating the manifests it cannot be determined what port of embarkation was used in Europe. Russian Poland was land-locked. Two common ports used by Poles from that region were Hamburg and Bremen in Germany, although other ports were also possible. Instead of permission from a member of the nobility (szlachta) Antoni would have needed papers which proved that he had completed military service or that he was not part of the quota for the area where he lived.

I can understand your sentimental reasons for seeking Polish citizenship and there was a brief time when I considered getting dual citizenship (I would have no trouble demonstrating my Polish ancestry since both my paternal and maternal ancestors are Polish—my dad was born in Poland and although my mom was born in Chicago, both her parents were born in Poland.) However, I decided that the effort would not bring me tangible practical advantages which would justify the cost and the effort. So that never happened. Anyway, it seems that you are a bit farther removed from “the old country” than I so I have no advice to offer on that score.

As long as you seem to be into reading about Poland I would recommend for your consideration Norman Davies’ two volume history, God’s Playground: A history of Poland.

Poland was/is made up of various regions which differed from each other in traditions, vocabulary, accent, building style, traditional attire, etc. Attached is a map showing the various “ethnic” regions found in Poland. Here are two links which show the traditional garb of the Podlaskie region. In Polish:
https://etnograficzna.pl/stroje-ludowe-stroj-podlaski-nadbuzanski/ and in English (with other regions included): https://lamusdworski.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/polish-costumes-overview/

Wishing you continued success and unflagging enthusiasm,

Dave


Thanks very much for all the added info and brief history Dave! I am ordering the book you recommended and looking into a really great pictorial history book as well. Would there be one you(or anyone else reading this) recommend? There must be quite a few, but I would love to know if some are much better than others, before I order.

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