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Latin records translations
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Edu



Joined: 05 Oct 2019
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Post Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:32 pm      Post subject: Żnr custodis viae ferrcae e Piajecza
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Hello All

For this birth record number 31, I would be most grateful for a translation or interpretation of a phrase that appears to be a mix of both Latin and Polish after the godmother's name Valeria Caroli in the last column (my best attempt at transcribing it):

Żnr custodis viae ferrcae e Piajecza

Żnr or Łnr = ??
custodis = custodian, guard
viae = roads
ferrcae = iron? could be a misspelling
e =from
Piajecza = ??

My wild guess is that this might this refer to her occupation as a railroad guard/custodian from Piajecza (a place? I can find no reference to this in Polish). Any advice would be most appreciated! Many thanks in advance!



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marcelproust
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:33 am      Post subject: Re: Żnr custodis viae ferrcae e Piajecza
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Edu wrote:
Hello All

For this birth record number 31, I would be most grateful for a translation or interpretation of a phrase that appears to be a mix of both Latin and Polish after the godmother's name Valeria Caroli in the last column (my best attempt at transcribing it):

Żnr custodis viae ferrcae e Piajecza

Żnr or Łnr = ??
custodis = custodian, guard
viae = roads
ferrcae = iron? could be a misspelling
e =from
Piajecza = ??

My wild guess is that this might this refer to her occupation as a railroad guard/custodian from Piajecza (a place? I can find no reference to this in Polish). Any advice would be most appreciated! Many thanks in advance!


The place name is Rajcza.
you will receive the answer to the other questions if you put your question in the right place:
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=1759&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=2370

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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:15 am      Post subject: Re: Żnr custodis viae ferrcae e Piajecza
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Edu wrote:
Hello All

For this birth record number 31, I would be most grateful for a translation or interpretation of a phrase that appears to be a mix of both Latin and Polish after the godmother's name Valeria Caroli in the last column (my best attempt at transcribing it):

Żnr custodis viae ferrcae e Piajecza

Żnr or Łnr = ??
custodis = custodian, guard
viae = roads
ferrcae = iron? could be a misspelling
e =from
Piajecza = ??

My wild guess is that this might this refer to her occupation as a railroad guard/custodian from Piajecza (a place? I can find no reference to this in Polish). Any advice would be most appreciated! Many thanks in advance!


Hi Edu,

Here is a transcription of the entry: Valeria (uxor, understood) Caroli Żur custodis viae ferreae e Rajcza.
Your wild guess was not too far off. The entry translates: “Waleria, (the wife) of Karol Żur, a railroad guard/attendant/supervisor from Rajcza”.

The entry follows the usual rules/format of using the vernacular for surnames, places names, and other proper nouns. Via ferrea (iron road) is the accepted way to name a railroad in Latin. Although the ancient Romans were excellent engineers and road builders a railroad was beyond their experience of reality and thus Classical Latin had no word for a railroad. Nineteenth Century Latinists determined that via ferrea was the most appropriate way to describe a railroad in Latin. The determination was not based on a whim. The creation of new Latin words follows accepted scholarly methodology. A department exists in the Vatican for the creation of new Latin words. Since Papal Encyclicals and other documents are published in Latin (as well as in Vernacular languages) it is necessary to coin new Latin words to express 21st Century realities which did not exist in times past.

Although this response is probably longer than what you wanted, hopefully it answers your questions.’

Wishing you success,

Dave
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Edu



Joined: 05 Oct 2019
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Location: Washington, DC, USA

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm      Post subject:
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Many thanks to Dave for your insights and interpretations! It makes perfect sense now reading that "Waleria, (the wife) of Karol Żur" is the godmother - and this gives me yet another clue to follow up on. I have found Rajcza, a small village just 9.4 miles from my ancestors' village of Cięcina, which indeed has a rail station on the line from Żywiec to the Polish-Slovakian border.

Thanks also to MarcelProust for his clarification of the village Rajcza as well as his suggestion to post under the appropriate category for questions, Latin records translations (this is my first time posting, live and learn). So noted!
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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:52 pm      Post subject: Translation of Record No 6 Marriage
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Greetings all! I would greatly appreciate help in accurately translating my g.g-parents marriage record. I pretty confident I have the groom's info, but I question the spelling of the surname. I have thought it to be Bzdziuch, but the writing in this record looks different to me....I'm just not sure.

As for the bride, I'm struggling with everything past the name. Also, the groom's birth year is listed, but looks like it's not for the bride?

I really appreciate some fresh eyes on this!

Thank you...Joe



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:52 pm      Post subject: Re: Translation of Record No 6 Marriage
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JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings all! I would greatly appreciate help in accurately translating my g.g-parents marriage record. I pretty confident I have the groom's info, but I question the spelling of the surname. I have thought it to be Bzdziuch, but the writing in this record looks different to me....I'm just not sure.

As for the bride, I'm struggling with everything past the name. Also, the groom's birth year is listed, but looks like it's not for the bride?

I really appreciate some fresh eyes on this!

Thank you...Joe


Hi Joe,

The record you posted is in Polish, not in Latin.

Here is a translation of the portions about which you had questions.

The Groom: Antoni Bzdziender(sp?), a single young man, a farmer, the son of Michał and of Agnieszka (née) Lizak, born in 1845.

The Bride: Agnieszka Jucha, a miss, the daughter of the late Wawrzeniec (Wawrzyniec) and of Katarzyna (née) Snieg, 18 years of age. (The year of her birth is not included; only her age is given.)

The third and sixth columns give the villages where the contracting parties resided.

The dates the banns were announced were: Jan. 17, 24, & 31in the year 1875

I’m not certain of the letters following the d in the surname of the groom. Also the standard spelling of Lawrence is Wawrzyniec but the priest spelled the name Wawrzeniec.

Hope this answers your questions,

Dave
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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:17 pm      Post subject: Re: Translation of Record No 6 Marriage
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dnowicki wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings all! I would greatly appreciate help in accurately translating my g.g-parents marriage record. I pretty confident I have the groom's info, but I question the spelling of the surname. I have thought it to be Bzdziuch, but the writing in this record looks different to me....I'm just not sure.

As for the bride, I'm struggling with everything past the name. Also, the groom's birth year is listed, but looks like it's not for the bride?

I really appreciate some fresh eyes on this!

Thank you...Joe


Hi Joe,

The record you posted is in Polish, not in Latin.
.......
Hope this answers your questions,

Dave


Thank you Dave! One day, I'll figure out how to tell which language is being used in these records!
Best,
Joe

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TifaStrife



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:50 am      Post subject: Birth Record Translation
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I found this birth record and believe it might be that of Antoni Janowski (b. June 13, 1870/1871); however, I was unable to translate it. The information surrounding the record is Parents - Konstancya Stokowska and Wawrzyniec Janowski. Parish is Jezow. Place is Lubiska. The information I currently have is that Antoni Janowski was the son of a Karl Janowski and Michalinae Stakowski (Sułkowska). The similarities in the mother's name and Antoni's name plus the year of birth being so close to the one I have recorded led me to question if this record might be a match. Thank you so much for your help!


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:10 am      Post subject: Re: Translation of Record No 6 Marriage
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JGwizdowski wrote:
dnowicki wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings all! I would greatly appreciate help in accurately translating my g.g-parents marriage record. I pretty confident I have the groom's info, but I question the spelling of the surname. I have thought it to be Bzdziuch, but the writing in this record looks different to me....I'm just not sure.

As for the bride, I'm struggling with everything past the name. Also, the groom's birth year is listed, but looks like it's not for the bride?

I really appreciate some fresh eyes on this!

Thank you...Joe


Hi Joe,

The record you posted is in Polish, not in Latin.
.......
Hope this answers your questions,

Dave


Thank you Dave! One day, I'll figure out how to tell which language is being used in these records!
Best,
Joe


Hi Joe,

I should have mentioned that the record you posted yesterday is not the record of the marriage. The page comes from the “Register of Banns” (Księza Zapowiedzi)—the title at the top of the page. This register was the place where information was gathered prior to the wedding. Notice that the date of the marriage is not found in the entry. The marriage was contracted—the marriage ceremony took place, according to the last column. The heading of the column can be translated as “The marriage was contracted, or not” and the entry is “ditto” which refers back to the second entry on the page, Cop. (which is a Latin abbreviation meaning “joined together (in marriage)”. In order to learn the actual date of the wedding it would be necessary to locate the appropriate marriage register, if it is extant. Based on the information in the register of banns, the wedding took place no earlier than January 31, 1875. That year January 31 was a Sunday. Based on what I’ve seen over the years, weddings often took place on Sundays after the parish Mass and it was not unusual for the final announcement of the banns to have been made during the Sunday Mass with the wedding ceremony being celebrated after the Mass. In many ways a Sunday wedding was convenient—relatives, friends, neighbors, and acquaintances of the couple were already present at the parish church and thus it was possible that more people would be present for the ceremony than would normally attend a wedding during the week. However, since weddings often took place during the week, the marriage ceremony may have occurred on any day of the first week of February and no later than February 9. February 10 was Ash Wednesday, which marked the beginning of Lent, in 1875. Since weddings did not take place during Lent, the window for their wedding date would have been from January 31 through February 9. There was a “wedding rush” in the parish that year during that window. Six of the marriages on the page would have taken place on one of those days that year. One reason for the “rush” was that the next window for weddings would not occur until after the octave of Easter. Easter Sunday that year was on March 28 and the octave day was a week later (April 4) so weddings would not have been celebrated until after April 4. Since the custom in rural areas was to have weddings take place during the “down” times of the agricultural year, April would have marked the beginning of the busy planting season, which was definitely not a preferred time for weddings.

Here are some hints for determining whether a given record in the columnar format is in Polish or in Latin for anyone not familiar with those languages. Look at the column headings. If you see words which contain the letter “k”, you can be sure that the record is in Polish rather than in Latin. (“K” is only found in a very few Latin words like Kalendae (Calends, the first day of a Roman month—the word from which the English “calendar” comes.), and Karthago (Carthage). If you see one of those two words (which you will not), you can safely conclude that the record is in Latin. Another hint is that if you see words with diacritical marks (ą, ć, ę ł, ń, ó, ś. ź, ż) you can conclude that the record is in Polish. On the other hand, if you see a word which contains the letter “q”, you can safely conclude that the record is in Latin rather than in Polish. The same is true for words which contain the letter “v”. The Polish alphabet does not contain the letter “v” and the Latin alphabet did not contain the letter “w”.

I hope that you find this information useful.

Wishing you continued successful research,

Dave


Last edited by dnowicki on Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:16 am      Post subject: Re: Birth Record Translation
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TifaStrife wrote:
I found this birth record and believe it might be that of Antoni Janowski (b. June 13, 1870/1871); however, I was unable to translate it. The information surrounding the record is Parents - Konstancya Stokowska and Wawrzyniec Janowski. Parish is Jezow. Place is Lubiska. The information I currently have is that Antoni Janowski was the son of a Karl Janowski and Michalinae Stakowski (Sułkowska). The similarities in the mother's name and Antoni's name plus the year of birth being so close to the one I have recorded led me to question if this record might be a match. Thank you so much for your help!


Hi TifaStrife,

The record you posted is in Russian, not in Latin. If you post it under Russian records translations, page 2: https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=3525&sid=5419aa6afd2a5a67308d069a0f9f480a
you should receive the translation of the entry.

Quick hints—if you see letters in the record which you do not recognize as belonging to the Latin/Roman alphabet (the alphabet used in English and Polish, etc.), you most likely have a record in Russian. (Russian uses the Cyrillic alphabet rather than the Latin/Roman alphabet.) Civil records from the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) aka Russian Poland aka the Russian Partition were composed in Polish from 1808 until 1868 and then in Russian from 1868 until the end of WWI. Using those dates can be helpful for determining the language of a civil record for anyone not familiar with those two languages. See the previous post for hints for determining whether a record is in Polish or in Latin. Attached are examples of handwritten and printed Cyrillic letters.

I hope this explanation helps you.

Wishing you success,

Dave



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Mary Kay



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Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:53 pm      Post subject: Grandfather's birth record
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I went to the Catholic Diocese in Tarnow in September and found my grandfather's birth record. Your website forum has already helped me translate some of it. Can you translate this portion with his parents names and their parents names? It would be great if you could.[/img]


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:05 pm      Post subject: Re: Grandfather's birth record
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Mary Kay wrote:
I went to the Catholic Diocese in Tarnow in September and found my grandfather's birth record. Your website forum has already helped me translate some of it. Can you translate this portion with his parents names and their parents names? It would be great if you could.[/img]


Hi Mary Kay,

Here is what is legible to me in the section of the record you posted. The Father: Stanislaus Kołacz, l(egitimus) f(ilius) Francisci et Catharinae n(atae) Ja?óz hortulanus = Stanisław Kołacz, the legitimate son of Franciszek (Kołacz) and of Katarzyna born Ja?óz, a gardener*
The Mother: Anna Marianna l(egitima) f(ilia) Stanislai Kwarciński et Mariannae n(atae) S?? = Anna Maryanna, the legitimate daughter of Stanisław Kwarciński and of Marianna born S??
Note* hortulanus/gardener was a term used to describe a peasant who owned his cottage and a small amount of land for a garden and perhaps a few animals, but not a full farmstead with land for field crops.

The handwriting in this record is far removed from standard script which makes it difficult to determine the letters. This is OK if one knows what to expect, like with the Latin words, but it makes determining the vernacular (Polish) surnames a real trip without knowing what to expect. Here is an example of what I mean about the handwriting: The first word at the bottom of the father’s column is Bapt(izavit/baptized. I’m not sure how one could see that without knowing what it should be.

Perhaps someone else can give you a better reading of the two surname of which I am unsure— Ja?óz and S??

Wishing you successful research,

Dave
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Sophia



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:43 am      Post subject: Re: Grandfather's birth record
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dnowicki wrote:


Hi Mary Kay,

Here is what is legible to me in the section of the record you posted. The Father: Stanislaus Kołacz, l(egitimus) f(ilius) Francisci et Catharinae n(atae) Ja?óz hortulanus = Stanisław Kołacz, the legitimate son of Franciszek (Kołacz) and of Katarzyna born Ja?óz, a gardener*
The Mother: Anna Marianna l(egitima) f(ilia) Stanislai Kwarciński et Mariannae n(atae) S?? = Anna Maryanna, the legitimate daughter of Stanisław Kwarciński and of Marianna born S??
Note* hortulanus/gardener was a term used to describe a peasant who owned his cottage and a small amount of land for a garden and perhaps a few animals, but not a full farmstead with land for field crops.

The handwriting in this record is far removed from standard script which makes it difficult to determine the letters. This is OK if one knows what to expect, like with the Latin words, but it makes determining the vernacular (Polish) surnames a real trip without knowing what to expect. Here is an example of what I mean about the handwriting: The first word at the bottom of the father’s column is Bapt(izavit/baptized. I’m not sure how one could see that without knowing what it should be.

Perhaps someone else can give you a better reading of the two surname of which I am unsure— Ja?óz and S??

Wishing you successful research,

Dave


Hi Dave and Mary Kay,
I have a suggestion regarding the two names that are difficult to read. The first one I see as Jawór. For the second one I can only offer a wild guess, Sud, based on the way the capital M (used both times the name Marianna was written) reminds me of Suetterlin handwriting for M, and so I am guessing at a "d" that looks like a Suetterlin "d." That would make it a German surname (Sud = South) and perhaps my eyes simply insist on finding something recognizable. Mary Kay, sometimes it helps to post a larger section of the document just so that we can see how letters were formed by the person writing the records.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia
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Mary Kay



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:53 am      Post subject:
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Thank you so much for your input. Per your suggestion, I'm posting the rest of the entry, starting with my grandfather's name and date of birth. As these were taken with my phone, in less than ideal conditions, I apologize for the overlap and low quality.


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Sophia



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:12 am      Post subject:
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Mary Kay wrote:
Thank you so much for your input. Per your suggestion, I'm posting the rest of the entry, starting with my grandfather's name and date of birth. As these were taken with my phone, in less than ideal conditions, I apologize for the overlap and low quality.


Hi Mary Kay,
Very helpful! I see the name of the midwife clearly as "Sophia Radzik." So, there you have a lower case letter "d" (wow, right?). Now I am less convinced about my guess of "Sud." Hmmmm.
Sophia

P.S. The last letter of the S... surname looks like the last letter of "hortalanus," so maybe Sus?
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