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a4u2fear



Joined: 25 Oct 2019
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:31 pm      Post subject: Baptism record explanation
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Can anyone explain what the writing is below the second Brudzyn baptism on left side? Something about 1833? Thank you.


Mike Rachela baptism 1812 film 8021751 img 113.jpg
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on left side of page, second Brudzyn baptism, Michaelis (Rachela)
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Mike Rachela baptism 1812 film 8021751 img 113.jpg


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:04 pm      Post subject: Re: Baptism record explanation
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a4u2fear wrote:
Can anyone explain what the writing is below the second Brudzyn baptism on left side? Something about 1833? Thank you.


Hi,

The notation states that he married on July 22, 1833. Similar notations appear on two more records on the two pages.

Dave
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:24 am      Post subject:
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Dave.

Thanks. I looked in Poznan marriage index, as well as this marriage in those same parish records and couldn't find his marriage in 1833. Shouldn't they be in the same church books since someone wrote this in on the baptism? I looked in Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Janowiec Wielkopolski (Żnin); same place i found baptism.
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:07 am      Post subject:
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a4u2fear wrote:
Dave.

Thanks. I looked in Poznan marriage index, as well as this marriage in those same parish records and couldn't find his marriage in 1833. Shouldn't they be in the same church books since someone wrote this in on the baptism? I looked in Kościół rzymsko-katolicki. Parafja Janowiec Wielkopolski (Żnin); same place i found baptism.


Hi,

Roman Catholic marriages were supposed to take place in the parish where the bride resided so the parish where the groom was baptized may or may not have provided clues about where the groom married. A notification of marriage was sometimes sent to the parish of baptism by the priest who blessed the marriage. That information was supposed to be entered in the appropriate baptismal register. This practice became much more regular in the late 19th Century and throughout the 20th Centuries. However, omissions and errors did occur. Since what appears to be Michał Rachela’s marriage in Kłecko in 1840 states that he was a single man who had not been married previously it would seem that the notation in the baptismal register is a clerical error.

Dave
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DBallanger



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Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:03 pm      Post subject: Testimonium ortus et baptismi
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I am interested in translating the enclosed baptism certificate. It would be helpful to know what language this is written in, the place, and the mother and father's names plus any other relative names. Thank you in advance. Debra


Papers from Aunty Sophie (3) Pages 20 - 21.pdf
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:17 pm      Post subject: Re: Testimonium ortus et baptismi
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DBallanger wrote:
I am interested in translating the enclosed baptism certificate. It would be helpful to know what language this is written in, the place, and the mother and father's names plus any other relative names. Thank you in advance. Debra


Hi Debra,

The certificate is in Latin. I realize that the hard copy is damaged and fragile and would gladly translate it for you if you could change the format from PDF to jpg. This would make it possible for me to zoom in and to rotate the doc to make it easier to read the entries for the father & the mother. Some birth data in the certificate was changed/forged by someone other than the parish priest. I would explain that in more detail when I translate the certificate.

It is not my intention to make your life more difficult by the above request. It is just that one’s eyesight does not improve with age & I would like to provide you with as accurate a translation as possible. I will provide the translation as time permits during this holiday week

Thanks.

Dave
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a4u2fear



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:47 am      Post subject: Re: Baptism record explanation
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dnowicki wrote:
a4u2fear wrote:
Can anyone explain what the writing is below the second Brudzyn baptism on left side? Something about 1833? Thank you.


Hi,

The notation states that he married on July 22, 1833. Similar notations appear on two more records on the two pages.

Dave


Just to follow up. You are right, it says "extr" for extracted. And it is 1839! The 9 looked like a 3. He was married in 1840 so extracting a year sooner makes more sense now than 1833
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DBallanger



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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:22 pm      Post subject:
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Enclosed please find the document in jpeg


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:39 pm      Post subject:
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DBallanger wrote:
Enclosed please find the document in jpeg


Hi Debra,

Thank you for posting the jpg image.

Here is the translation of the certificate. I was not certain of the reading of some surnames and place names. The data regarding the sponsors aka godparents is basically illegible.

Thanks to Sophia’s more accurate reading of the handwriting, the maiden name of Anna reads Czepelewycz (Contemporary Polish spelling is Czepelewicz) rather than Czepciewycz(? ). I’ve made the correction in the translation.

The lines over which birth information was written acted as a security device so that the document could not be altered without erasing some of the lines. Whoever altered the certificate (It was not a priest.) did not read Latin and did not realize that the day of birth was entered first in numerals and then with the number in written form. The certificate read that she was born on January 31 in both formats before someone changed the numeral without realizing that the number in long hand was a dead giveaway that part of the document had been forged. Ninety-four years after her birth the alteration has been made manifest. I guess karma gets you no matter how many years have passed....Busted...

Happy Thanksgiving.

Dave

Top of Certificate:
Left Side: Republic of Poland
Województwo/Province: Lwów
District/Powiat (County): Sanok
Center: Number (of certificate issued): Missing
Right Side: Diocese: Przemyśl
Dekenat (Deanery):
Parish: Jurowce

Certificate of birth and of baptism

The parish office of the Greek Rite Catholic Church of Jurowice attests to all and sundry of whom it is or may be of interest that in the baptismal registers of this church for the village of Srogów Gorny Volume III , Page 58, Number 2 is found the following:

In the year of Our Lord One Thousand Nine Hundred Twenty-five on the Thirty-first day of the month of January, 28/I*, was born at house number 36, and on the 5th day of February was baptized by Rev. Stefan Kopyskacki(?)

Col. 1: Name of the one baptized: Zofia/Sophia
Col. 2: Religion: Greek Catholic
Col. 3: Sex/Gender: Feminine
Col. 4: The (marital) bed: legitimate
Col. 5: PARENTS
Col. 5a: The Father: Stefan/Stephen Szwec, the son of the farmers of this place, Elizeusz/Elisha/Elishua and Anna née Czepelewycz (Contemporary Polish spelling: Czepelewicz), farmers in Sok???
Col. 5b: The Mother: Angelina, the daughter of Michał/Michael Gayda (contemporary Polish spelling: Gajda) and of Ewa/Eve née Hezkada(?), farmers in Sokr????
Col 6a & b: The Sponsors & Notation: illegible

The midwife: Lucja/Lucy Dobosz(?)

In testimony of which I sign this certificate with my own had and affirm it with the seal of the parish church.

Given at Jurowce on the 12th day of April 1930

Signature of the parish priest with the imprint of the parish seal
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DBallanger



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Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:08 am      Post subject:
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dnowicki wrote:
DBallanger wrote:
Enclosed please find the document in jpeg


Hi Debra,

Thank you for posting the jpg image.

Here is the translation of the certificate. I was not certain of the reading of some surnames and place names. The data regarding the sponsors aka godparents is basically illegible.

Thanks to Sophia’s more accurate reading of the handwriting, the maiden name of Anna reads Czepelewycz (Contemporary Polish spelling is Czepelewicz) rather than Czepciewycz(? ). I’ve made the correction in the translation.

The lines over which birth information was written acted as a security device so that the document could not be altered without erasing some of the lines. Whoever altered the certificate (It was not a priest.) did not read Latin and did not realize that the day of birth was entered first in numerals and then with the number in written form. The certificate read that she was born on January 31 in both formats before someone changed the numeral without realizing that the number in long hand was a dead giveaway that part of the document had been forged. Ninety-four years after her birth the alteration has been made manifest. I guess karma gets you no matter how many years have passed....Busted...

Happy Thanksgiving.

Dave

Top of Certificate:
Left Side: Republic of Poland
Województwo/Province: Lwów
District/Powiat (County): Sanok
Center: Number (of certificate issued): Missing
Right Side: Diocese: Przemyśl
Dekenat (Deanery):
Parish: Jurowce

Certificate of birth and of baptism

The parish office of the Greek Rite Catholic Church of Jurowice attests to all and sundry of whom it is or may be of interest that in the baptismal registers of this church for the village of Srogów Gorny Volume III , Page 58, Number 2 is found the following:

In the year of Our Lord One Thousand Nine Hundred Twenty-five on the Thirty-first day of the month of January, 28/I*, was born at house number 36, and on the 5th day of February was baptized by Rev. Stefan Kopyskacki(?)

Col. 1: Name of the one baptized: Zofia/Sophia
Col. 2: Religion: Greek Catholic
Col. 3: Sex/Gender: Feminine
Col. 4: The (marital) bed: legitimate
Col. 5: PARENTS
Col. 5a: The Father: Stefan/Stephen Szwec, the son of the farmers of this place, Elizeusz/Elisha/Elishua and Anna née Czepelewycz (Contemporary Polish spelling: Czepelewicz), farmers in Sok???
Col. 5b: The Mother: Angelina, the daughter of Michał/Michael Gayda (contemporary Polish spelling: Gajda) and of Ewa/Eve née Hezkada(?), farmers in Sokr????
Col 6a & b: The Sponsors & Notation: illegible

The midwife: Lucja/Lucy Dobosz(?)

In testimony of which I sign this certificate with my own had and affirm it with the seal of the parish church.

Given at Jurowce on the 12th day of April 1930

Signature of the parish priest with the imprint of the parish seal
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