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Wally1049



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Post Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:10 pm      Post subject: Rumnki
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Can the name Rumnki also refer to a village. So if someone said they were from Trabin-Rumnki. It would mean Parish Trabin,Village Rumnki?
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:25 pm      Post subject:
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hello Wally,

Trąbin-Rumunki is the name of the village itself. Here is current information from Wikipedia for the village. Note that Gmina Brzuze is the civil administrative district for the village:

Trąbin-Rumunki [ˈtrɔmbin ruˈmuŋki] is a village in the administrative district of Gmina Brzuze, within Rypin County, Kuyavian-Pomeranian Voivodeship, in north-central Poland.

Here is information from Polish Parishes database for Trąbin parish:

https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=8872

Here is the link to the Geneteka database (does not have all records indexed) for Trąbin. You can search for the surname you are trying to find; it may or may not have been indexed:

http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=02kp&rid=2625&search_lastname=&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=


Here is the link to online records for Trąbin in case you cannot find the surname you are seeking in the Geneteka index, or, in case the Geneteka index does not have a link to a "skan" available:

https://www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.type=ALL&query.city=Tr%25C4%2585bin&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=true&query.asc=false&query.sortMode=PUBLICATION&personTree=false&goComments=false&query.query

Also, here is another link to the Family Search database which also has images of the Trąbin parish books available for viewing. You may need to copy and paste the link into your browser for it to work:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=65571&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Poland%2C%20Bydgoszcz%2C%20Tr%C4%85bin%20(Rypin)%22&subjectsOpen=349448-50


I am fairly certain the information I am providing is accurate. However, I welcome the input from others in the forum to check my research on your behalf.

Best,
Cynthia


Last edited by mcdonald0517 on Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:06 pm      Post subject:
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If you click on the Geneteka index link I gave you above for all Jablonski surnames indexed in Trabin and search for the names you listed in other posts, you will find the following:

Michalina Jablonska born 1888 in Trabin. Record # 82 in the parish book of births, Torun archives.
Stanislaw Jablonski born 1895 in Trabin. Record # 26 in the parish book of births, Torun archives.
Zygmunt Jablonski (I already provided you with that birth record in another post)
Cecylia (Domicela) Jablonska born 1896 in Trabin. Record #48 in the parish book of birth, Torun archives. Note: I am pretty sure this is her. The given name is Domicela but she may have been called Cecylia.

Now you go to one of the links I provided you above for the Trabin parish books (either Family Search or the Torun archives) whichever is available for viewing and/or is easier for you to navigate. Find the year of the persons birth and look for the record number provided from the Geneteka index.

Best,
Cynthia
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Wally1049



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Post Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:43 pm      Post subject: Family records
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Cynthia,thanks for the help.Hopefully I will now be able to put missing pieces together.
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:57 pm      Post subject: Re: Rumnki
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Wally1049 wrote:
Can the name Rumnki also refer to a village. So if someone said they were from Trabin-Rumnki. It would mean Parish Trabin,Village Rumnki?


Hi Wally,

To answer your question about Trąbin-Rumunki and Trąbin Wieś...They are both villages which border each other. Trąbin-Rumunki has a population of 223 and Trąbin Wieś has 114 inhabitants. Trąbin Wieś is the location of the parish church of St. Anthony and both villages are part of that parish, which is usually referred to simply as the parish of Trąbin, and, of course, that is the place where the birth, marriage, & death records were created. The word Rumunek (singular)/Rumunki (plural) is described in an entry in the famous Geographical Dictionary—Słownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego….—which explains the origin & meaning of the term. Here is the link: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_X/12
To summarize the entry...Rumunki comes from the German word Raumen and describes places where forest land was logged/cleared and where settlements were set up on the cleared land. There are many places in the powiat of Rypin which have Rumunki as a part of the village name and all it does is describe how the settlement originated.

Cynthia has provided you with a wealth of information and leads on which you need to follow up in order to make the needed connections. Of the Jabłoński records she found for you the children of Jan Jabłoński and of Maryanna (née) Michałowska are: Michalina (1888#82), Zygmunt (1893#69), and Domicela (1896#48). Their son Stanisław was actually born in 1891 and is found in record 1891#24). The Jabłoński births indexed for 1886 & 1887 many or may not be for one of their children. There is no easy way of telling from the info on Geneteka since the volunteer found the names in the index of the birth record books for those years. The way to determine whether any are their children is to look at the actual record which can be found on a link Cynthia provided (https://www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl ). Since Jan & Maryanna married in 1877 it is a logical possibility that they had children who were born between 1877 and 1886. The way to find any such children would be to go to the above site and search through the indeces in the birth records for each of those years and then locate the actual record within the book. That is a time consuming process and should keep you busy for a while.

Regarding your question from another post regarding a village named Chromakow...No such village can be found on any of the sites usually used to locate places. There is a village named Chromiaków but it is not anywhere near Rypin or Trąbin. The only other place which is close, but, again, no cigar, is named Chromakowo.

Regarding your flag question...I’ve never bothered to try to change languages but the Jabłoński births indexed after Domicela in 1896 would need to be checked by using the year and akt (record) number to locate the appropriate record at this link https://www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl . The bottom line is that I don’t think changing languages will help your search since those records need to treated in the same way as those for 1886 & 1887 and those between 1877 and 1886. To me those later records would not be a top priority since most couples were finished having children by the time they had been married for 20 years…but you never know.

My suggestion would be to follow up on the Jabłoński family before moving on to the other names you’ve listed. The scattershot approach is tempting but, in my opinion, it is not really productive. It would be time to research another family name after finishing with the Jabłoński family.

Wishing you success,

Dave
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Wally1049



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:30 am      Post subject: Chromakow/ Chromakow/ Chromakowo
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Dave, thanks for the reply. The first Chromakow is what listed on Michalinas'
Residence listed on ships passenger list. It is more likely a spelling mistake. When I checked google maps it showed a distance of 47 miles. This also is not the Chromiakow that she listed. She then listed Plock behind the Chromakow. So then the last Chromakowo would be the best possible choice.How far is it Both Trabins or Saint Anthonys'. Could it be possible that the ancestorial home is actually the last Chromakowo. But they used Trabin.
Using the scatter shot approach to finding relationships between the families is because over the years stories changed. The names that come up are names no one remembers how the families were joined. The Jablonski/Yablonski names show up as early as 1860 here in the Wyoming Valley in Pennsylvania. So trying to find the first to come over and the relationship is a challenge. I realize that not all are related. That is why I sought information on the following families. Mary Skerski married my grandfather. Michalina married a Yezilski. On ships information she listed a Wasilewski as a brother in law.There is also a link to the Potocki family. I am not trying to find any royalty.Since the last 2 names are related to gentry. I am more concerned about how the inter-relationship occurred. Not all Potocki
Or Wasilewski were gentry. How close to villages were the other names since most married in parish. Some names I have found most from marriage license. But do not have parents names on some. I hope this explains my reasoning. Once again thanks for reporting your finds
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:47 pm      Post subject: Re: Chromakow/ Chromakow/ Chromakowo
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Wally1049 wrote:
Dave, thanks for the reply. The first Chromakow is what listed on Michalinas'
Residence listed on ships passenger list. It is more likely a spelling mistake. When I checked google maps it showed a distance of 47 miles. This also is not the Chromiakow that she listed. She then listed Plock behind the Chromakow. So then the last Chromakowo would be the best possible choice.How far is it Both Trabins or Saint Anthonys'. Could it be possible that the ancestorial home is actually the last Chromakowo. But they used Trabin.
Using the scatter shot approach to finding relationships between the families is because over the years stories changed. The names that come up are names no one remembers how the families were joined. The Jablonski/Yablonski names show up as early as 1860 here in the Wyoming Valley in Pennsylvania. So trying to find the first to come over and the relationship is a challenge. I realize that not all are related. That is why I sought information on the following families. Mary Skerski married my grandfather. Michalina married a Yezilski. On ships information she listed a Wasilewski as a brother in law.There is also a link to the Potocki family. I am not trying to find any royalty.Since the last 2 names are related to gentry. I am more concerned about how the inter-relationship occurred. Not all Potocki
Or Wasilewski were gentry. How close to villages were the other names since most married in parish. Some names I have found most from marriage license. But do not have parents names on some. I hope this explains my reasoning. Once again thanks for reporting your finds


Hi Wally,

Thanks for the explanation of the reasoning for your approach.

Just to get a handle on relationships...Mary Skierska (Skerska) is your grandmother and your grandfather is Zygmunt Jabłoński (born in 1893), the son of Jan/John Jabłoński & Maryanna Michałowska. Is this correct?

I take it that you do not read Polish. If that is so, here are a few things I would like to point out. The way you find surnames spelled here in the USA often is not the way they are spelled in Poland—this is important to keep in mind when searching for individuals on Polish sites. A case in point is your grandmother Mary Skerski/Skerska. According to the rules of Polish grammar, the hard consonant “k” cannot be directly followed by the vowel “e” without the insertion of the vowel “i” between the “k” and the “e”. In Polish your grandmother’s maiden name would be Skierska. There is a Maryanna Skierska (born in 1897 in the parish of Zaduszniki) whose birth has been indexed. Her age would be a good match for Zygmunt. Zaduszniki is about 51km or about 31 miles from Trąbin and is also in Kujawsko-Pomorskie. However, the distance usually is not really significant for persons who married after immigrating. The time to get excited about that birth record is when you are sure of the names of her parents. Another important fact to keep in mind is that civil records in the Kingdom of Poland (Królestwo Polskie) aka Russian Poland were kept in Polish from 1808 until 1868. They were kept in Russian (which uses the Cyrillic alphabet) from 1868 until the end of WWI.

In another post you mentioned that individuals named Jabłoński were living in NE PA in the 1860s and 1870s. A word of caution...Jabłoński is a common Polish Surname. There are around 50,000 with that surname in contemporary Poland, and obviously, they are not all from Kujawsko-Pomorskie.

Dave

PS I’ve located records for the ancestors of Jan Jabłoński going back two more generations and would be happy to post them, if you would like.

PSS The ancestral home for your Jabłoński ancestors is Trąbin going back to the early 19th Century.
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:41 pm      Post subject: Re: Chromakow/ Chromakow/ Chromakowo
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[quote="dnowicki"]
Wally1049 wrote:
Dave, thanks for the reply. The first Chromakow is what listed on Michalinas'
Residence listed on ships passenger list. It is more likely a spelling mistake. When I checked google maps it showed a distance of 47 miles. This also is not the Chromiakow that she listed. She then listed Plock behind the Chromakow. So then the last Chromakowo would be the best possible choice.How far is it Both Trabins or Saint Anthonys'. Could it be possible that the ancestorial home is actually the last Chromakowo. But they used Trabin.
Using the scatter shot approach to finding relationships between the families is because over the years stories changed. The names that come up are names no one remembers how the families were joined. The Jablonski/Yablonski names show up as early as 1860 here in the Wyoming Valley in Pennsylvania. So trying to find the first to come over and the relationship is a challenge. I realize that not all are related. That is why I sought information on the following families. Mary Skerski married my grandfather. Michalina married a Yezilski. On ships information she listed a Wasilewski as a brother in law.There is also a link to the Potocki family. I am not trying to find any royalty.Since the last 2 names are related to gentry. I am more concerned about how the inter-relationship occurred. Not all Potocki
Or Wasilewski were gentry. How close to villages were the other names since most married in parish. Some names I have found most from marriage license. But do not have parents names on some. I hope this explains my reasoning. Once again thanks for reporting your finds


Hi Wally,

Here are images of some of the documents, as I promised. The remainder will follow in a second post since the total number exceeds the limit for attachments.

The parents of Jan Jabłoński were: Piotr Jabłoński (born c. 1792) & Franciszka Jarosławska (born 1813 #24). Piotr & Franciszka married on Aug. 11, 1832. He was a widower & she was a maiden. Piiotr died
The parents of Piotr Jabłoński were Wojciech Jabłoński & Franciszka née ?. The parents of Franciszka Jarosławska were Jakub Jarosławski (born c. 1780, died March 28, 1825) & Teresa Zabłoska (born c. 1792, died 1862—the text says 1860 but all the other records on the page say 1862 and that is how the death is indexed. 1860 is a scribal error.)

Here is the first installment of Records.

Dave



1862 #7 Death Teresa Jaroslawska nee Zabloska 71_378_0_81.jpg
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1862 #7 Death Teresa Jaroslawska nee Zabloska 71_378_0_81.jpg



1855 #22 Birth Jan Jablonski 71_378_0_68.jpg
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1855 #13 Death Piotr Jablonski 71_378_0_68-1.jpg
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1832 #12 Marriage Piotr Jablonski & Franciszka Jaroslawska 71_378_0_30.jpg
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1832 #12 Marriage Piotr Jablonski & Franciszka Jaroslawska 71_378_0_30.jpg



1825 #11 Death Jakub Jaroslawski 71_378_0_21.jpg
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Last edited by dnowicki on Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:46 pm      Post subject: Re: Chromakow/ Chromakow/ Chromakowo
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[quote="dnowicki"]
Wally1049 wrote:
Dave, thanks for the reply. The first Chromakow is what listed on Michalinas'
Residence listed on ships passenger list. It is more likely a spelling mistake. When I checked google maps it showed a distance of 47 miles. This also is not the Chromiakow that she listed. She then listed Plock behind the Chromakow. So then the last Chromakowo would be the best possible choice.How far is it Both Trabins or Saint Anthonys'. Could it be possible that the ancestorial home is actually the last Chromakowo. But they used Trabin.
Using the scatter shot approach to finding relationships between the families is because over the years stories changed. The names that come up are names no one remembers how the families were joined. The Jablonski/Yablonski names show up as early as 1860 here in the Wyoming Valley in Pennsylvania. So trying to find the first to come over and the relationship is a challenge. I realize that not all are related. That is why I sought information on the following families. Mary Skerski married my grandfather. Michalina married a Yezilski. On ships information she listed a Wasilewski as a brother in law.There is also a link to the Potocki family. I am not trying to find any royalty.Since the last 2 names are related to gentry. I am more concerned about how the inter-relationship occurred. Not all Potocki
Or Wasilewski were gentry. How close to villages were the other names since most married in parish. Some names I have found most from marriage license. But do not have parents names on some. I hope this explains my reasoning. Once again thanks for reporting your finds


Wally,

Here is the second and final set of records. I hope they help your research.

Dave



1896 #48 Birth Domicela Jablonska 71_378_0_139.jpg
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1893 #69 Birth Zygmunt Jablonski 71_378_0_134.jpg
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1891 #24 Birth Stanislaw Jablonski 71_378_0_130.jpg
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1891 #24 Birth Stanislaw Jablonski 71_378_0_130.jpg



1888 #82 Birth Michalina Jablonska 71_378_0_126.jpg
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1888 #82 Birth Michalina Jablonska 71_378_0_126.jpg


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Wally1049



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Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:25 pm      Post subject: Relatives
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Dave, thanks so much this will get me over the hump.I did have a translation of Jans birth but discounted it. Nobody was ever named Pitor in our family. This will also make a genealogy friend very happy because I wasn't sure she was right. I will be contacting the forum for complete translations. Now I can start making a family list of who came over first .
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:16 pm      Post subject: Re: Relatives
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Wally1049 wrote:
Dave, thanks so much this will get me over the hump.I did have a translation of Jans birth but discounted it. Nobody was ever named Pitor in our family. This will also make a genealogy friend very happy because I wasn't sure she was right. I will be contacting the forum for complete translations. Now I can start making a family list of who came over first .


Hi Wally,

Jan’s father, Piotr, died about 2 weeks before Jan was born. Piotr died on May 30, 1855 and Jan was born on June 18, 1855. Piotr was born in Smolniki Stare on June 28, 1792 and was baptized in the parish church in Trąbin on the following day. When he was born the area was still within województwo inowrocławskie (province of Inowrocław) of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (Rzeczpostpolita Obojga Narodów. In 1793 that territory was seized by Prussia in the Second Partition of Poland. The village of Smolniki Stare no longer exists and seems to have become part of the village of Trąbin-Rumunki. The first mention I found in the records of Trąbin-Rumunki was late in the first decade of the 19th Century. Piotr’s parents lived in the village of Ostrowite at the time of their marriage on January 27, 1783. You may have to revise your designation of the original ancestral home of the Jabłoński clan. Trąbin-Rumunki was a place settled by peasant farmers who held their own land. Serfdom had bee abolished in Prussian controlled areas by that time. It is possible that the castle which Domicela/Cecylia spoke about was a manor house connected to the manorial estate in Trąbin Wieś.

Here are some links to records: Link to image of Birth & Baptism record of Piotr Jabłoński on the summary pages https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-X9ML-S?i=203&cat=54875 Other children of Wojciech & Franciszka Jabłoński can be found on this image (45) and on the previous image (44). Those on image 44 are Maryann(1786), Maryanna (1787), & Agnieszka (1790). Those on image 45 are Piotr & Karol. Children on image 60 are Wojciech (1796), Anna (1799), Antonina (1802) & Kunegunda (1806)
Link to marriage of Wojciech & Franciszka Jabłoński (image 52) Date was January 27, 1783 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-X9MK-B?i=216&cat=54875
Link to baptism of Kunegunda Jabłońska https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-X9M6-C?i=301&cat=54875
Link to birth of Franciszka Jarosławska https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-X9MX-J?i=327&cat=54875 It is the 6th entry of the left page—Born Oct. 24, 1813 in Trąbin and baptized the following day.

Attached are the marriage record of Wojciech & Franciszka Jabłoński and the birth & baptism record of their son Piotr. You’ll notice that these records are in Latin, not in Polish or Russian.

I hope you find these records informative and enjoyable.

Dave



1792 B & B Piotr Jablonski.jpg
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1792 B & B Piotr Jablonski.jpg



1783 #4 Matr. Wojciech & Franciszka Jablonski.jpg
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:05 pm      Post subject: Re: Relatives
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Wally1049 wrote:
Dave, thanks so much this will get me over the hump.I did have a translation of Jans birth but discounted it. Nobody was ever named Pitor in our family. This will also make a genealogy friend very happy because I wasn't sure she was right. I will be contacting the forum for complete translations. Now I can start making a family list of who came over first .


Hi Wally,

Here is the first set of birth records for more children of Jan & Maryanna Jabłoński about which I told you in the private message.

Dave



1896 #48 Birth Domicela Jablonska.jpg
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1896 #48 Birth Domicela Jablonska.jpg



1884 #67 Birth Zofia Jablonska.jpg
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1884 #67 Birth Zofia Jablonska.jpg



1882 #8 Birth Wladyslawa Jablonska.jpg
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1882 #8 Birth Wladyslawa Jablonska.jpg



1878 #8 Birth Stanislawa Jablonska.jpg
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:10 pm      Post subject: Re: Relatives
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[quote="dnowicki"]
Wally1049 wrote:
Dave, thanks so much this will get me over the hump.I did have a translation of Jans birth but discounted it. Nobody was ever named Pitor in our family. This will also make a genealogy friend very happy because I wasn't sure she was right. I will be contacting the forum for complete translations. Now I can start making a family list of who came over first .


Hi Wally,

Here is the second set of birth & death records for more children of Jan & Maryanna Jabłoński about which I told you in the private message. Included is a cropped image of the 1803 Gilly map about which I wrote.

Dave



C1 jpg (JPEG Image, 4200 × 3103 pixels).png
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C1 jpg (JPEG Image, 4200 × 3103 pixels).png



1902 #29 Death Wladyslaw Jablonski.jpg
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1902 #29 Death Wladyslaw Jablonski.jpg



1902 #24 Birth Wladyslaw Jablonski.jpg
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1902 #24 Birth Wladyslaw Jablonski.jpg



1898 #68 Birth Kazimierz Jablomski.jpg
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1898 #68 Birth Kazimierz Jablomski.jpg


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