PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Author
Message
JGwizdowski
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Replies: 176
Location: United States

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:34 pm      Post subject: Tracking down Emilia Sotzmann
Reply with quote

Greetings!

I could really use some suggestions/recommendations on how to track down my 2nd great grandmother, Emilia Sotzmann.

I have her birth record from Kowal in 1829, listing her father as Herman Sotzmann, and her mother as Fryderyka Keber.

The next record I have referencing Emilia is her son's (my g.grandfather) birth record in Wloclawek in 1847. She is recorded as being unmarried and the father is unknown.

The next and only other record I have referencing her is on her son, Wojciech Sotzmann/Zecman's 1897 marriage record to his second wife. I've attached that record here. There, he lists his father as Henryk Zecman, deceased, and his mother as Amalia nee Rode, living with her second husband Wikenty Baroszwicz in Dzialyn.

There is obvious conflicting information here, but also some potential clues. We know that Emilia/Amalia was born Sotzmann/Zecman, so her son's father's name could/should not also be Zecman. Recall the father's name was unknown on the son's birth record.

Amalia's birth surname was Sotzmann, but the sons 1897 marriage record records a maiden name of Rode. I can only guess that at some point after the birth of her son she married a "Rode" then, ultimately, her second husband Wikenty Bartoszewicz in Działyń

I am unfamiliar with Działyń and find a few places scattered around the region...but which one, and how to find records there? I'm thinking this might be a good place to search for a death record (she would have been 68 in 1897) and maybe her marriage record to Wikenty Bartoszewicz.

I've been scouring https://www.geneszukacz.genealodzy.pl/ with every variance of these names and also looking at the scanned index source pages at genealogciawarchiwach and metryki.genealodzy.pl.

I've been going in circles and thought I would turn to you good people here, who have been known to pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat on more than one occasion.

Thank you, as always, for any ideas and pointers!
...Sorry for this drawn out explanation Smile



Wojciech Zecman m 1897 .jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.4 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Wojciech Zecman m 1897 .jpg



_________________
"As long as we are remembered, we remain alive."
View user's profile
Send private message
Sophia



Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 448

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:28 pm      Post subject: Re: Tracking down Emilia Sotzmann
Reply with quote

JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

I could really use some suggestions/recommendations on how to track down my 2nd great grandmother, Emilia Sotzmann.

I have her birth record from Kowal in 1829, listing her father as Herman Sotzmann, and her mother as Fryderyka Keber.

The next record I have referencing Emilia is her son's (my g.grandfather) birth record in Wloclawek in 1847. She is recorded as being unmarried and the father is unknown.

The next and only other record I have referencing her is on her son, Wojciech Sotzmann/Zecman's 1897 marriage record to his second wife. I've attached that record here. There, he lists his father as Henryk Zecman, deceased, and his mother as Amalia nee Rode, living with her second husband Wikenty Baroszwicz in Dzialyn.

There is obvious conflicting information here, but also some potential clues. We know that Emilia/Amalia was born Sotzmann/Zecman, so her son's father's name could/should not also be Zecman. Recall the father's name was unknown on the son's birth record.

Amalia's birth surname was Sotzmann, but the sons 1897 marriage record records a maiden name of Rode. I can only guess that at some point after the birth of her son she married a "Rode" then, ultimately, her second husband Wikenty Bartoszewicz in Działyń

I am unfamiliar with Działyń and find a few places scattered around the region...but which one, and how to find records there? I'm thinking this might be a good place to search for a death record (she would have been 68 in 1897) and maybe her marriage record to Wikenty Bartoszewicz.

I've been scouring https://www.geneszukacz.genealodzy.pl/ with every variance of these names and also looking at the scanned index source pages at genealogciawarchiwach and metryki.genealodzy.pl.

I've been going in circles and thought I would turn to you good people here, who have been known to pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat on more than one occasion.

Thank you, as always, for any ideas and pointers!
...Sorry for this drawn out explanation Smile


Hi Joe,
This is what I see in Geneteka:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=02kp&rid=3108&search_lastname=Zotzman&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=
1848 marriage of Emilia Zotzman and Wincenty Bartosiewicz.
Best,
Sophia
View user's profile
Send private message
jajan



Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Replies: 6

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:08 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

Also note that if you put in Bartosiewicz at this same Geneteka search, you will see a Feliks Bartosiewicz, son of Wincenty and Emilia Zecman married in 1889. [No relation, just like to learn from all the great questions and research advice\hints here]. Good Luck in your further search!
View user's profile
Send private message
JGwizdowski
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Replies: 176
Location: United States

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:21 pm      Post subject: Re: Tracking down Emilia Sotzmann
Reply with quote

Sophia wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:

I could really use some suggestions/recommendations on how to track down my 2nd great grandmother, Emilia Sotzmann...



Hi Joe,
This is what I see in Geneteka:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=02kp&rid=3108&search_lastname=Zotzman&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=
1848 marriage of Emilia Zotzman and Wincenty Bartosiewicz.
Best,
Sophia


Sophia...I can't thank you enough...this is a real breakthrough! All this time, I never thought to use "Z" instead of "S"...I've never seen it spelled this way, and makes all the difference. THANK YOU!! Now it's off to find the record Smile

_________________
"As long as we are remembered, we remain alive."
View user's profile
Send private message
JGwizdowski
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Replies: 176
Location: United States

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:24 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

jajan wrote:
Also note that if you put in Bartosiewicz at this same Geneteka search, you will see a Feliks Bartosiewicz, son of Wincenty and Emilia Zecman married in 1889. [No relation, just like to learn from all the great questions and research advice\hints here]. Good Luck in your further search!


Jajan...thank you, too! Your eyes have found another clue for me. Though why have I not found the reference to Emilia Zecman? Perhaps my eyes are just too tired! Thank you!

_________________
"As long as we are remembered, we remain alive."
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1895
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:36 pm      Post subject: Re: Tracking down Emilia Sotzmann
Reply with quote

Sophia wrote:
JGwizdowski wrote:
Greetings!

I could really use some suggestions/recommendations on how to track down my 2nd great grandmother, Emilia Sotzmann.

I have her birth record from Kowal in 1829, listing her father as Herman Sotzmann, and her mother as Fryderyka Keber.

The next record I have referencing Emilia is her son's (my g.grandfather) birth record in Wloclawek in 1847. She is recorded as being unmarried and the father is unknown.

The next and only other record I have referencing her is on her son, Wojciech Sotzmann/Zecman's 1897 marriage record to his second wife. I've attached that record here. There, he lists his father as Henryk Zecman, deceased, and his mother as Amalia nee Rode, living with her second husband Wikenty Baroszwicz in Dzialyn.

There is obvious conflicting information here, but also some potential clues. We know that Emilia/Amalia was born Sotzmann/Zecman, so her son's father's name could/should not also be Zecman. Recall the father's name was unknown on the son's birth record.

Amalia's birth surname was Sotzmann, but the sons 1897 marriage record records a maiden name of Rode. I can only guess that at some point after the birth of her son she married a "Rode" then, ultimately, her second husband Wikenty Bartoszewicz in Działyń

I am unfamiliar with Działyń and find a few places scattered around the region...but which one, and how to find records there? I'm thinking this might be a good place to search for a death record (she would have been 68 in 1897) and maybe her marriage record to Wikenty Bartoszewicz.

I've been scouring https://www.geneszukacz.genealodzy.pl/ with every variance of these names and also looking at the scanned index source pages at genealogciawarchiwach and metryki.genealodzy.pl.

I've been going in circles and thought I would turn to you good people here, who have been known to pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat on more than one occasion.

Thank you, as always, for any ideas and pointers!
...Sorry for this drawn out explanation Smile


Hi Joe,
This is what I see in Geneteka:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=02kp&rid=3108&search_lastname=Zotzman&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=
1848 marriage of Emilia Zotzman and Wincenty Bartosiewicz.
Best,
Sophia


Hi Joe & Sophia,

No rabbits were harmed in the finding of this information. Sophia gently pulled the rabbit out of the hat and here is the link to the marriage record: https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.type=ALL&query.facetQuery.date=1848&query.city=W%25C5%2582oc%25C5%2582awek&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=true&query.asc=false&query.sortMode=PUBLICATION&modal=258515622&personTree=false&goComments=false&searcher=big&query.query
Her marriage to Wincenty Bartosziewicz was her first marriage. The wedding took place at the beginning of February of 1848 and she is recorded as a maiden (panna) so there was no marriage to a Rode/Rhode prior to the 1848 wedding. The info about her parents is a match (taking into account how German surnames got recorded in Polish)—Herman & Fryderyka. Dangle a carrot in front of Sophia's rabbit and he'll tell you all kinds of stuff you wanted to know.

My guess is that the probable Działyń was located in powiat Lipnowski during the 19th Century. (Cf. the attached 1907 map. The small + above the circle marking the location indicates that the village was the location of a parish church.) Records from Działyń are available on https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ and early 20th Century records are listed until 1910.

No need for anymore rabbits—like Bullwinkle used to say in the cartoons “See. Nothing up my sleeve.” Just time for a bit of methodical research.

Good luck.

Dave



58.Lipnowski.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  145.57 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

58.Lipnowski.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
JGwizdowski
PolishOrigins Patron


Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Replies: 176
Location: United States

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:42 pm      Post subject: Re: Tracking down Emilia Sotzmann
Reply with quote

dnowicki wrote:


No need for anymore rabbits—like Bullwinkle used to say in the cartoons “See. Nothing up my sleeve.” Just time for a bit of methodical research.

Good luck.

Dave


Thank you so much Dave. Between Sophia and you, I have enough rabbits to chase for a while...and I couldn't have done it without your skills and knowledge. Magical, or otherwise!

Best,
Joe

_________________
"As long as we are remembered, we remain alive."
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2020 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM