PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Latin records translations
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 172, 173, 174, 175  Next
Author
Message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:08 pm      Post subject: Re: Translation please
Reply with quote

EANWhitson wrote:
Hi Dave! This is supposedly what this record is supposed to be. I don't see it all. So I thought I'd ask you.

Thanks!

Name: Anna Maria Strubels
Marriage Date: 25 Mai 1751 (25 May 1751)
Winterbach u. Zweibrücken, Bayern
Father: Christian Strubels
Spouse: Wilhelm Hofmann
Winterbach u Zweibrücken
Evangelische Kirche Battweiler (BA. Zweibrücken)


Hi,

Despite the date at the beginning of the record, the entry is in German, not Latin. I’m sure that Michael would be able to provide you with the answers you need.

Sorry that I can’t help you with this one.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:12 pm      Post subject: Re: Clarification...
Reply with quote

GorliceRoots wrote:
If this is opening a big can of (Latin) worms, you may ignore. I agree 100% that the priest wrote "faber ferri" - just as I guessed and as you proved. Your argument is flawless, and the priest agrees. Google insists on saying faber ferrarius. What is the difference between faber ferri and faber ferrarius? If faber is "maker" or "smith", then "faber ferri" is a maker of iron or a smith of iron. Ferri here is the genitive form of a NOUN. In "faber ferrarius" isn't ferrarius an ADJECTIVE in the nominative? Yet... google tells me plain old "ferrarius" is a blacksmith. SO... Back to "faber ferrarius". If they are both nouns, it is somewhat akin to a "maker blacksmith" which makes no sense.


Joe,

It is more like opening up a can of dead worms for Google Translate, which certainly is not the ultimate authority on the Latin language. I’ve seen some ludicrous translations from Latin to English via Google Translate posted on the internet. My assessment is that Google is wrong, misleading and incomplete in this case. Latin has too long a history with variations in usage from its earliest inscriptions dating from the sixth and seventh centuries B.C.E. through the archaic period and the Golden Age (81 B.C.E. to the year 14 C.E.), the Silver Age (14-180 C.E), etc. down to the present time for those complexities to be reduced to a non-human translation mechanism.

Yes, ferrarius, a, um is an adjective and yes adjectives can be used as substantives, i.e. adjectives which do not modify a noun but stand in place of the noun. (Think of the title of the old Clint Eastwood flick “The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly.”—all adjectives standing in place of nouns.) So it is true that ferrarius, ferarii, m. is used for a blacksmith. It is just that, as you concluded, Google Translate’s result makes no sense by the reading it produced. It makes even less sense when it is crystal clear that the word in the record is ferri, not ferrarii, as Google would have you believe. The different between faber ferri and faber ferarius is that the former is correct Latin and the later isn't.

Bottom line is don’t sweat the small stuff by making it overly complex, but keep thinking and asking questions—a really good method of learning. After all, the Socratic method has not proved effective for centuries without reason.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:19 pm      Post subject: Re: Leo baptism
Reply with quote

GorliceRoots wrote:
The surnames I get are in red for a best guess: Waszila & Stubarz & Kundrzal.

As for the notation after the priest: P.P. Ref./Res. I get P.P. = parochus parochiae = “pastor of the parish”. But what is the Ref or Res.?

Then I get sarcinarii = carrier of packages = mailman(?) or courier(?).

Lastly, there is a mystery occupation (I think it is the occupation) starting with G or T or I(?). I've tried a million different words, but I can't get it.


Joe,

Could you please post the actual entry in a format like jpg. PDF does zoom in nicely on your work but it does not allow me to see the entry clearly by increasing the size. To answer your questions intelligently I need to be able to see the entry more clearly than the PDF allows.

Thanks,

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:22 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

MikeBayko wrote:
Would I be allowed to submit an armorial letter written in old Latin for translation?

This side of my family is not Polish, it is a Hungarian noble family, the Gazdagh family.

It is a long letter written entirely in old Latin, I have an idea of what some of it is saying but I am not fluent in old Latin. I would really appreciate it if any translation help and expertise could be offered for this, even though it is not exclusively Polish.

If such content would be allowed, then I will be sure to post a picture of the letter in another reply.

Thank you.


Mike,

When you speak of “old Latin” I presume you are referring to Latin as used from the Late Middle Ages or later, which actually is rather “new” Latin. Certainly feel free to post the letter. However, I will not be able to tell you whether I want to devote the time required to translate it rather than to provide a summary until I see the length of the letter and determine the length of time it would take to translate it. I may not be able to get to it for a while since despite coronavirus life still does go on. Also, please post it in a format (like jpg) which would allow zooming in without sacrificing clarity.

Thanks,

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
GorliceRoots



Joined: 15 Mar 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:54 pm      Post subject: Leo baptism in jpeg format
Reply with quote

Dave,

I was trying to be helpful by combining into one file. I won't do that again. Sorry. I will provide .jpg files in the future.

I have attached the Leo baptism. It should blow up in glorious clarity. It is the highest res record I have from this batch of records. (The whole register page is 6 MB, so I only included the relevant part.)

One other note about this record in addition to my other paltry translation dilemmas. The middle name is given as "Constantius". It seems to me, based on your handy name list, that the priest worked backwards from the Polish Konstanty to get Constantius (instead of Constantinus). I see no way for the end of the middle name (after the 2nd t) to be -inus. I see only -ius.

Thank you!



Wnorowski_Leo_Gorlice_1870_zoom2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  710.9 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

Wnorowski_Leo_Gorlice_1870_zoom2.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
MikeBayko



Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Replies: 16
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:05 am      Post subject:
Reply with quote

dnowicki wrote:

Mike,

When you speak of “old Latin” I presume you are referring to Latin as used from the Late Middle Ages or later, which actually is rather “new” Latin. Certainly feel free to post the letter. However, I will not be able to tell you whether I want to devote the time required to translate it rather than to provide a summary until I see the length of the letter and determine the length of time it would take to translate it. I may not be able to get to it for a while since despite coronavirus life still does go on. Also, please post it in a format (like jpg) which would allow zooming in without sacrificing clarity.

Thanks,

Dave


Here is the front and back of the letter, it is quite long. If you chose to summarize it, and I can understand why, I must ask that you keep any possible genealogical information as true to the original text as possible.

Thank you.



letter_back.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.5 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

letter_back.jpg



letter_front.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.69 MB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

letter_front.jpg


View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:47 pm      Post subject: Re: Leo baptism in jpeg format
Reply with quote

GorliceRoots wrote:
Dave,

I was trying to be helpful by combining into one file. I won't do that again. Sorry. I will provide .jpg files in the future.

I have attached the Leo baptism. It should blow up in glorious clarity. It is the highest res record I have from this batch of records. (The whole register page is 6 MB, so I only included the relevant part.)

One other note about this record in addition to my other paltry translation dilemmas. The middle name is given as "Constantius". It seems to me, based on your handy name list, that the priest worked backwards from the Polish Konstanty to get Constantius (instead of Constantinus). I see no way for the end of the middle name (after the 2nd t) to be -inus. I see only -ius.

Thank you!


Hi Joe,

Thanks for posting the image in the format which allows it to appear in glorious clarity. My eyes appreciate it.

Your reading of the surnames in red seems accurate, except that perhaps the surname of the midwife may end with the letters “cz” instead of “rz”. The ultimate decision rests on your judgment call of how to interpret the handwriting. In my opinion, the letters after the name of the priest who baptized him are probably the abbreviation of the religious order of which the priest was a member. Although the name Dionisius/Dionizy was a given name found in Poland it was a popular saint’s name taken by members of some religious orders. This fact increases the likelihood that the abbreviation is that of a religious order. I don’t know which order used those initials, but I’m not really all that familiar with Catholic male religious orders.

The second given name is Constantius rather than Constantinus but both Latin names are rendered in Polish as Konstanty. Both Latin forms are derived from the participle constans, constantis which means unchangeable, standing firm, constant, steadfast, etc. The priest was not working backwards from the Polish but just used a variant Latin form of the name. Some forms and spellings of Latin given names varied by region, which may have been the case here. I probably should add Constantius to the next revision of the list of names.

On to the sponsors...The mystery word after Stephanus Halacz is not an occupation and is actually two words—Theresia (which also can be written as Teresia) & uxor. That part of the entry reads “Teresa, the wife of Władysław...” The only real mystery in the sponsors’ column is why there were two men and two women entered there. Catholic Church law (Canon Law) required one sponsor per person baptized. Custom morphed that into two, a male and a female, hence the common reference to godparents. Others who were “honorary” attendants at a baptism were usually named as “also assisting”. This commonly happened in the baptism records of the gentry/szlachta but very rarely in non-noble records. How & why it happened here is another of the mysteries of life.

On to the carrier of letters...The word in all its glorious clarity is scrinarius, scrinarii, m. cabinet maker/carpenter. This is how the letters appear (The “n” is consistent with other examples of the same letter in the inconsistent handwriting of the scribe. I guess that whoever wrote the entry was too inconsistent to have Konstanty for a middle name.) and the occupation better fits the time and place.

I believe that takes care of everything for today.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
GorliceRoots



Joined: 15 Mar 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:48 pm      Post subject: Another easy one
Reply with quote

Dave,

My entry is the fourth from top: Vladislaus. I have only two Q's here:

The first is the surname of the sponsor. The end might be cut-off, so not sure if we can get a good guess. The occupations are almost completely missed. I try to ignore that this photo shows the photographer was creasing a page that is 150 yrs old. Some people...

The second is the priest's surname and the word after that. My guess at Fabielli is a bit of a joke. The surname can't be that. I have included many entries to give you as many examples of the priest's name and the word after. I have a good guess at the word.

I have attached a .pdf of my work and a .jpg of the original.

josephus



WNOROWSKI Wladyslaw Bap.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  530.88 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

WNOROWSKI Wladyslaw Bap.jpg



Tom_bap_rec.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Tom_bap_rec.pdf
 Filesize:  129.73 KB
 Downloaded:  4 Time(s)

View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:51 pm      Post subject: Re: Another easy one
Reply with quote

GorliceRoots wrote:
Dave,

My entry is the fourth from top: Vladislaus. I have only two Q's here:

The first is the surname of the sponsor. The end might be cut-off, so not sure if we can get a good guess. The occupations are almost completely missed. I try to ignore that this photo shows the photographer was creasing a page that is 150 yrs old. Some people...

The second is the priest's surname and the word after that. My guess at Fabielli is a bit of a joke. The surname can't be that. I have included many entries to give you as many examples of the priest's name and the word after. I have a good guess at the word.

I have attached a .pdf of my work and a .jpg of the original.

josephus


Hi Joe,

Fabielli is a good guess. What do you think about Fonzarelli instead? Seriously, the name is Zabicki, the pastor.

Katarzyna is the wife of Michał Kozłowski.

That takes care of the questions. And now for a few tidbits at no extra charge. Michael is a Third Declension noun in Latin. The Nominative of Third Decl. Nouns varies. Michael is a 3rd Decl. Nominative and so are Hedvigis, uxor, and pellio. The Genitive of each ends in “is”.Michael sometimes appears as Michaël with the diaeresis above the e. The diaeresis indicates that the e is not part of a diphthong (as it is in the First Declension Genitive Singular ending) Instead, it forms part of a separate syllable. Michaël, and similar names like Raphaël are Hebrew in origin and are descriptive. The “el” stands for God and the name means “Who is like God?” Raphaël means “God heals.” But there actually is a Latin point to this digression. The Genitive Singular of 3rd Decl. Nouns is “is” so what you read as Michaely is Michaelis.

In the Note Mayii is actually Maji. The reason is that in Classical Latin I was used to symbolize both the vowel and the consonant we know as j. Most 19th Century Latin grammars and dictionaries distinguished the vowel from the consonant by using i for the vowel and j for the consonant and thus in the name of the month the first is a consonant and the second is a vowel. Contemporary Latin grammars and dictionaries have reverted to the Classical form. What in the 19th Century appeared as Maji today is written as Maii.

A final comment on Latin Declensions—there are five of them and you can tell which is which by the Genitive Singular. Here are the Genitive Singular endings for each: 1st “ae”; 2nd “i”; 3rd “is”; 4th “us”; 5th “ei”. Fourth & Fifth Decl. Nouns appear infrequently in vital records. The most common are domus (4th)—although domus does employ some 2nd Decl. endings, but not to worry about that— and dies (5th).

I hope you are enjoying the Latin lessons.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
GorliceRoots



Joined: 15 Mar 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:23 pm      Post subject: Where are my marbles?
Reply with quote

1. Hits jukebox.... AAAAAAAAAA! Thumbs up on the translation. It was a Z and not an F. Ugh!

2. I must be losing my marbles. Not sure how I put "Michaely". Obviously, you are right with Michaelis. The first two baptisms I sent recently had the correct "Michaelis".

3. The tidbits were very much appreciated, as they corrected my errors. I don't know where I got "Mayii".
View user's profile
Send private message
GorliceRoots



Joined: 15 Mar 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:44 pm      Post subject: Much the same. Just a few Q's.
Reply with quote

Another baptism is attached: pdf of my work and jpg of the ledger page as I have it. Julianna Helena is the fifth one down.

If you could verify the occupations: laterarius = brick maker; sutor = cobbler. Note that this scribe didn't like to cross his ts for some reason.

Previously you mentioned that "P. P. Ref." was a possible reference to a religious order. I have seen P.P. many times in Irish records, which I've always seen as parochus parochiae = “pastor of the parish”.

I think this is likely because of this record, which indicates the priest as "J. Pilawski Coop". I say "coop" = Coop. loci. = cooperator loci = assistant of (this) place.

Lastly, the line after "Marianna vidua" is unknown to me. I've looked at it for hours over many days. I can't get any of it. Of course, validation of my surnames is always appreciated. THANKS.

joe



WNOROWSKA Julianna-Helena B 1875 #6.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  867.89 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

WNOROWSKA Julianna-Helena B 1875  #6.JPG



Juliana_bap_rec.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Juliana_bap_rec.pdf
 Filesize:  137.04 KB
 Downloaded:  5 Time(s)

View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:23 pm      Post subject:
Reply with quote

MikeBayko wrote:
dnowicki wrote:

Mike,

When you speak of “old Latin” I presume you are referring to Latin as used from the Late Middle Ages or later, which actually is rather “new” Latin. Certainly feel free to post the letter. However, I will not be able to tell you whether I want to devote the time required to translate it rather than to provide a summary until I see the length of the letter and determine the length of time it would take to translate it. I may not be able to get to it for a while since despite coronavirus life still does go on. Also, please post it in a format (like jpg) which would allow zooming in without sacrificing clarity.

Thanks,

Dave


Here is the front and back of the letter, it is quite long. If you chose to summarize it, and I can understand why, I must ask that you keep any possible genealogical information as true to the original text as possible.

Thank you.


Mike,

I looked at the document you posted and due to its length decided that I cannot not afford the time it would take to translate it because of more personal things, which I enjoy, occupying my time. I suggest that you might consider hiring a translator. The Latin is not difficult. It is the rather standard type of language found in royal decrees, charters, and other official documents. It is just not something I want to spend time on. Some genealogical societies maintain lists of translators for hire. I suggest that you look into hiring such a translator.

Sorry that I can’t accommodate you as you would like but I have too many other things which I need and want to accomplish to volunteer my time for this project.

Wishing you good luck,

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:27 pm      Post subject: Re: Much the same. Just a few Q's.
Reply with quote

GorliceRoots wrote:
Another baptism is attached: pdf of my work and jpg of the ledger page as I have it. Julianna Helena is the fifth one down.

If you could verify the occupations: laterarius = brick maker; sutor = cobbler. Note that this scribe didn't like to cross his ts for some reason.

Previously you mentioned that "P. P. Ref." was a possible reference to a religious order. I have seen P.P. many times in Irish records, which I've always seen as parochus parochiae = “pastor of the parish”.

I think this is likely because of this record, which indicates the priest as "J. Pilawski Coop". I say "coop" = Coop. loci. = cooperator loci = assistant of (this) place.

Lastly, the line after "Marianna vidua" is unknown to me. I've looked at it for hours over many days. I can't get any of it. Of course, validation of my surnames is always appreciated. THANKS.

joe


Hi Joe,

Your reading of the occupations and your translations are dead on accurate.

The line that was giving you trouble reads “Marianna vidua post p. def. Ignatium Marciszewski” which is somewhat redundant but is translated “Marianna, a widow after (i.e. surviving) the late Ignacy Marciszewski.”

I’m sure that you have seen the abbreviation P.P. (Parochus Parochiae) before in Irish records. However, in the thousands of records I’ve seen from Poland that form has never occurred. To me, that phrase seems redundant. In Polish records the name of the pastor is followed simply by “parochus” or by “parochus loci”. The addition of loci to a title was not unique to Poland, but was universal Catholic phraseology found in titles such as ordinarius loci (the ordinary of the place for a bishop), parochus loci, curatus loci, cooperator loci, administrator loci, etc. Perhaps parochus parochiae was a phrase of choice in Ireland but not so in Poland (or the USA for that matter). The priest with the initials may have been a visitor in the parish. Often members of religious orders were invited to preach at special events like parish missions, retreats, during Lent or for 40 hours devotions, etc. Since the baptism took place on April 3, 1870 and Easter Sunday was on April 17th that year my guess is that the priest was a member of a religious order invited to preach during Lent. Perhaps by checking the names of the priests who baptized other children on that page you may be able to resolve your doubts. The baptism records you’ve posted have been from between 1870 to 1875 and our old buddy the Fonz aka Zabicki was the pastor when Władysław was baptized and again when Julianna Helena was baptized (He didn’t baptize her but he did baptize others on the page.). Assistants were usually not assigned to a parish long term and “special preachers” were there for an even shorter period, but pastors were there long term—quite a few reasons for that, but it is another topic for another time. All this makes it extremely unlikely that Dionisius/Dionizy was ever the pastor in Gorlice. Your extra credit assignment is to set your doubts to rest by looking at the other records on the page when Leo was baptized.

Vale pro nunc.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
GorliceRoots



Joined: 15 Mar 2020
Replies: 30
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:42 am      Post subject: 2 jobs and a surname
Reply with quote

Dave,

Thanks again. I have lingering Qs that I will get to soon. I will do a survey of the priests for the baptisms from 1868-1877.

The attached is the last baptism I have. There are two jobs. The one is suburbanus. I assume that is the opposite of "civis". Suburbanus, then, is a person living outside of town? My suburbanite translation is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I assume you have a better word for it.

The other job I simply can't get. (You know... I wonder if a list of jobs is in order in the same manner as your name list.)

The surname might be off by one letter. THANK YOU.

joe



WNOROWSKA Waleria-Teofila B 1877_90.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  694.97 KB
 Viewed:  0 Time(s)

WNOROWSKA Waleria-Teofila B 1877_90.jpg



Mary_viola_bap.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Mary_viola_bap.pdf
 Filesize:  135.42 KB
 Downloaded:  7 Time(s)

View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 1948
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:52 pm      Post subject: Re: 2 jobs and a surname
Reply with quote

GorliceRoots wrote:
Dave,

Thanks again. I have lingering Qs that I will get to soon. I will do a survey of the priests for the baptisms from 1868-1877.

The attached is the last baptism I have. There are two jobs. The one is suburbanus. I assume that is the opposite of "civis". Suburbanus, then, is a person living outside of town? My suburbanite translation is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I assume you have a better word for it.

The other job I simply can't get. (You know... I wonder if a list of jobs is in order in the same manner as your name list.)

The surname might be off by one letter. THANK YOU.

joe


Hi Joe,

Your guess of the meaning of suburbanus is very good. Suburbanus, a, um is an adjective whose roots are the preposition sub (under, near, etc.) and urbs, urbis, f. city. Here suburbanus is a substantive meaning an inhabitant/person living near the city or as you wrote, a suburbanite. Evidently the family was no longer residing in the town of Gorlice itself but in the area surrounding the town.

I read the surname of the male sponsor as Slepkowicz. Not even Cicero or Virgil could figure out what his occupation is supposed to be. I tried every possible variant reading of the letters and could not recognize anything that made sense. I checked every Classical, Medieval, and ecclesiastical dictionary I own as well as the great, but still incomplete after over 75 years, dictionary of Medieval Latin as used in Poland from the 10th through the 16th Centuries—Lexicon Mediae et Infimae Latinitatis Polonorum—as well as the word list which forms the basis for the Lexicon and was not able to find anything which even resembled the word in the entry. I’m afraid that is a mystery which must remain unresolved unless you know some spiritualist who can contact the scribe.

A final comment—counting the entries from the top of the page was a good idea but the result may not be accurate. The numbers were usually a running tally for the year and since the birth & baptism took place in December my guess is that the number would be well over 100.

A few years ago I considered compiling as list of occupations and identified over 450 which should probably be included. I actually did about 50 and then left the project for another time which has never come (a likely will not happen).’

Good luck on contacting the ghost of the scribe.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Research in Poland All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 172, 173, 174, 175  Next Page 173 of 175

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2020 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM