donnadski
Joined: 06 Jul 2020
Replies: 6
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:09 pm
Post subject: Lomza village name help
I am trying to locate where in Poland my great grandmother Marianna Tyszka (or Tyszka, Tyszka, Tiska, Tisko) is from. Her immigration record from 1912 says her last permanent residence was Grasski, Gunki or Gumki and her father Frank or Frances lived in Gunki or Gumki Lomza. It is in cursive so it's hard to make out the exact letters. I am certain it starts with a G and nearly certain it ends in a ki with an accent mark above the i. Anyone have any ideas? I’ve attached a screenshot of the record I got the information from.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1531
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Lomza village name help
| donnadski wrote: | | I am trying to locate where in Poland my great grandmother Marianna Tyszka (or Tyszka, Tyszka, Tiska, Tisko) is from. Her immigration record from 1912 says her last permanent residence was Grasski, Gunki or Gumki and her father Frank or Frances lived in Gunki or Gumki Lomza. It is in cursive so it's hard to make out the exact letters. I am certain it starts with a G and nearly certain it ends in a ki with an accent mark above the i. Anyone have any ideas? I’ve attached a screenshot of the record I got the information from. |
Grzymki would fit. My eyes don't exactly see it that way. But it does start and end correctly. What do you think?
Sophia
P.S. Grzymki is a tiny place. The church would be in Romany. Geneteka is showing people with the Tyszka surname in the Romany church:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=10pl&rid=5047&search_lastname=Tyszka&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=
If you look at the births (urodzenia) you will see quite a few where the father's name is Franciszek (that is the Polish version of Frank/Frances) Tyszka, being born in the 1890s although I do not see a Marianna. You did not mention when she was born. The wife of this particular Franciszek Tyszka was Balbina Klimaszewska.
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mcdonald0517PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 989
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:12 am
Post subject:
Hello,
There are several possibilities: Gietki, Gorskie, Gąski and more.. all around Lomza.
You need another document showing her place of birth or a document for a sibling who also immigrated to the US. Do you know if other members Of her family came to the US? Possible documents that may have village of birth:
Naturalization records
Marriage license applications
Sacramental records of marriage from the church
Military draft records (for male relatives)
Death records (In rare instances)
Also, family stories can provide hints.
Can you post the entire passenger list? We might see other clues. Also,nprovide more information about her such as her age at immigration, Who she married and when, where she lived and died, etc.
Best,
Cynthia
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donnadski
Joined: 06 Jul 2020
Replies: 6
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:57 pm
Post subject: Reply to Sophia and Cynthia
I can’t figure out how to respond to each separate post so grouping it together. First, thank you both for the quick response and willingness to help. I think that Marianna might be her middle name because the ship record actually lists her as Wladislawa. Other records list both names or one or the other. I don’t have much info on her other than the ship record, her naturalization record and some newspaper clippings. She was born in 1890 and arrived in New York In 1912 It looks like the record shows her as 21 or 22. She married Wladislaw Gorski in Branford Connecticut the same year she arrived. I recently was told that she sailed first class when she did come to the US. Her fathers name was Franz / Francizek and her mother Victoria. I do not have any information on siblings. She died in Branford CT in 1965. I have attached the ship record. Donna
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mcdonald0517PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 989
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:27 pm
Post subject:
Hello,
I did a bit of research and found her full petition for naturalization - I am not sure if you have this. It is attached.
On the petition, she says she was born in Wies Gumki. Here is some current info on the location:
Gumki [ˈɡumki] is a village in the administrative district of Gmina Czerwin, within Ostrołęka County, Masovian Voivodeship, in east-central Poland.[1] It lies approximately 3 kilometres (2 mi) north-east of Czerwin, 20 km (12 mi) south-east of Ostrołęka, and 99 km (62 mi) north-east of Warsaw.
It is also about 35 km south west of Lomza.
I will look around to see if I can locate the parish books For you.
Best,
Cynthia
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donnadski
Joined: 06 Jul 2020
Replies: 6
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:34 pm
Post subject:
Cynthia
This is amazing. It is the most information I’ve gotten on both my great grandparents. I can’t thank you enough. If you are able to find anything additional I will be forever grateful. Thank you again. Donna
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1531
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:51 am
Post subject: Re: Reply to Sophia and Cynthia
| donnadski wrote: | | I can’t figure out how to respond to each separate post so grouping it together. First, thank you both for the quick response and willingness to help. I think that Marianna might be her middle name because the ship record actually lists her as Wladislawa. Other records list both names or one or the other. I don’t have much info on her other than the ship record, her naturalization record and some newspaper clippings. She was born in 1890 and arrived in New York In 1912 It looks like the record shows her as 21 or 22. She married Wladislaw Gorski in Branford Connecticut the same year she arrived. I recently was told that she sailed first class when she did come to the US. Her fathers name was Franz / Francizek and her mother Victoria. I do not have any information on siblings. She died in Branford CT in 1965. I have attached the ship record. Donna |
Hi Donna,
One quick bit of help - - if there is a particular message you want to respond to, you can click on the red icon that says "quote" that you see on the right-hand side of that message (as I did, here) and that lets you reply to an individual person if you wish. Having said that, there's no problem with talking to several people at once!
You attached the first page of what is actually a two-page ship manifest. For manifests of this vintage, there are actually 4 images that you see when you look online, because they are showing the front and back of two pages. You'll recognize the correct second page for her manifest because it is List 4 (can you see, on the page you posted, the number 4 in the upper left of the page? look for a similar 4, probably top right, on the corresponding second page of the manifest). I'm saying this because, when these manifests were microfilmed, they were sometimes filmed in reverse order so the second page may come before the first page.
Cynthia,
Great detective work, figuring out the village! I don't think that Gumki was ever administratively tied to Lomza, so the ship manifest notation that includes Lomza is curious. It is interesting that the marriage happened within a month of her arrival. The manifest did not indicate that she had been in the U.S. prior to the 1912 arrival. So these are a few details that are odd. Still, we're looking at a naturalization petition filled out in 1942 or so, right?
Sophia
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donnadski
Joined: 06 Jul 2020
Replies: 6
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: Reply to Sophia and Cynthia
| Sophia wrote: | | donnadski wrote: | | I can’t figure out how to respond to each separate post so grouping it together. First, thank you both for the quick response and willingness to help. I think that Marianna might be her middle name because the ship record actually lists her as Wladislawa. Other records list both names or one or the other. I don’t have much info on her other than the ship record, her naturalization record and some newspaper clippings. She was born in 1890 and arrived in New York In 1912 It looks like the record shows her as 21 or 22. She married Wladislaw Gorski in Branford Connecticut the same year she arrived. I recently was told that she sailed first class when she did come to the US. Her fathers name was Franz / Francizek and her mother Victoria. I do not have any information on siblings. She died in Branford CT in 1965. I have attached the ship record. Donna |
Hi Donna,
One quick bit of help - - if there is a particular message you want to respond to, you can click on the red icon that says "quote" that you see on the right-hand side of that message (as I did, here) and that lets you reply to an individual person if you wish. Having said that, there's no problem with talking to several people at once!
You attached the first page of what is actually a two-page ship manifest. For manifests of this vintage, there are actually 4 images that you see when you look online, because they are showing the front and back of two pages. You'll recognize the correct second page for her manifest because it is List 4 (can you see, on the page you posted, the number 4 in the upper left of the page? look for a similar 4, probably top right, on the corresponding second page of the manifest). I'm saying this because, when these manifests were microfilmed, they were sometimes filmed in reverse order so the second page may come before the first page.
Cynthia,
Great detective work, figuring out the village! I don't think that Gumki was ever administratively tied to Lomza, so the ship manifest notation that includes Lomza is curious. It is interesting that the marriage happened within a month of her arrival. The manifest did not indicate that she had been in the U.S. prior to the 1912 arrival. So these are a few details that are odd. Still, we're looking at a naturalization petition filled out in 1942 or so, right?
Sophia |
Thank you for the instructions on responding. Let’s see if I do this correctly. What a wealth of information I have been missing out on! I had no idea there were multiple pages. I’ve attached the second here (I didn’t bother with the first and last because it looked specific to the ship and crew. Let me know if there is any value to downloading them. Now the challenge is trying to make out what the cursive writing says. Unfortunate it is hard to read.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1531
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:01 am
Post subject:
Hi Donna,
Well done! I agree with you, there is no value to the other 2 pieces of paper (the backs of the 2 pages of the manifest). What you get from this page is one additional chance at reading the name of the village of birth (last column), but of course we're already pretty solid on that thanks to Cynthia. You also see that she paid for her own passage, that she had $20 or so, and that she did not claim to ever have been in the U.S. previously. Now, for that tangled spaghetti bowl of writing as to where she was going.... the basic formula is that there are two lines of writing. The first line usually begins with a word of relationship, often abbreviated, like "husb" or "sis" or "br-i-l" (brother in law) and in this case it looks like "cous" was written next to whatever the original word was. After that is a name. The second line is an address, usually in the form of street address, city, town. Since you know she went to Branford CT, you can kind of read that. If you know Branford (I do not) you may be able to get the house address. So the interesting question is, what is the name of the person she is going to? Possibly Szymon (English, Simon). Possibly Jankowski. At least, something -kowski.
As for treasure trove of info, did you catch on the first page the code number that showed that she was naturalized in 1942? Also, no big X or "SI" next to her name, so she was not Detained nor held for Special Inquiry (which you can confirm by scrolling through those pages of the manifest).
Check this out: https://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/manifests/ for a really good explanation of the notations on manifests.
Fun, right?
Sophia
Edit: Actually, the handwriting of "cous" also appears to have written "Marianna" for the first name of the person she is going to.
Also, it is this second page of the manifest that gives you the arrival date of her ship. So now you can calculate number of days at sea!
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mcdonald0517PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 27 May 2012
Replies: 989
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:53 pm
Post subject:
Hello again,
I did some looking around for parish records and this is what I have found so far:
1. The books available online are very limited: 1890-1906. Also, many of the books that are available are fragmented and missing pages or are faded. The year you need - 1889 - is not available. Here is the link where you can find the books and browse through them if you want:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2789071?availability=Family%20History%20Library
2. Because the books are not available online, you may need to hire a researcher to call the archives to see if those books are available, but just haven't been digitized and put online yet. If they are available, the researcher can go in person to search for your records. Polish Origins can help with that, if you send them a request.
3. I found ONE marriage record through the Geneteka database for Jozefa Tyszka (see attached image). Here is the link to the page:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=07mz&rid=4033&search_lastname=Tyszka&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=Wiktoria&from_date=&to_date=
Jozefa may be an older sister of Marianna. Her parents are listed as: Franciszek Tyszka and Wiktoria (Victoria) Łada. I am attaching the record. If you post it in the Russian translation forum of this website and request a translation, Marcel will do it for you. You may find more details once it is translated. Also, if you go to the page using the link above, and then hover your cursor over the "I" at the end of the line entry, it will show some comments about the record. If I am reading it properly, it seems the groom is age 40 born in Glina, and was married once before to Marianna Rulesza. The bride is age 30 born in Załuski. The marriage took place in Gumki on 08 Jul 1901.
I have attached the marriage record image; it is entry #23 on the page.
That is about all I can find at this point because of the limited records available.
Also, great find Sophia on the additional passenger list page. I had wondered if there was a second page. The name of the person/people she is visiting reads to me as: Szymon and Marianna Gumkowski. I looked in Geneteka database to see if the Gumkowski surname was in their parish (it was) and to see if the Tyszka surname was ever connected to the Gumkowski surname by marriage (it was but not by anyone in your immediate family tree).
Best of luck with your research,
Cynthia
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donnadski
Joined: 06 Jul 2020
Replies: 6
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:12 pm
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | Hi Donna,
Well done! I agree with you, there is no value to the other 2 pieces of paper (the backs of the 2 pages of the manifest). What you get from this page is one additional chance at reading the name of the village of birth (last column), but of course we're already pretty solid on that thanks to Cynthia. You also see that she paid for her own passage, that she had $20 or so, and that she did not claim to ever have been in the U.S. previously. Now, for that tangled spaghetti bowl of writing as to where she was going.... the basic formula is that there are two lines of writing. The first line usually begins with a word of relationship, often abbreviated, like "husb" or "sis" or "br-i-l" (brother in law) and in this case it looks like "cous" was written next to whatever the original word was. After that is a name. The second line is an address, usually in the form of street address, city, town. Since you know she went to Branford CT, you can kind of read that. If you know Branford (I do not) you may be able to get the house address. So the interesting question is, what is the name of the person she is going to? Possibly Szymon (English, Simon). Possibly Jankowski. At least, something -kowski.
As for treasure trove of info, did you catch on the first page the code number that showed that she was naturalized in 1942? Also, no big X or "SI" next to her name, so she was not Detained nor held for Special Inquiry (which you can confirm by scrolling through those pages of the manifest).
Check this out: https://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/manifests/ for a really good explanation of the notations on manifests.
Fun, right?
Sophia
Edit: Actually, the handwriting of "cous" also appears to have written "Marianna" for the first name of the person she is going to.
Also, it is this second page of the manifest that gives you the arrival date of her ship. So now you can calculate number of days at sea! |
Sophia - again thank you for your time and interest. You and Cynthia have knocked down my brick wall. I actually am researching the Gumkowski line because they came up in a dna match. That tree does have a Simon Gumkowski in Branford but he’s married to a Josephine Gorski. Coincidently (or not) Marianna Tyszka married a Gorski. It almost seems like the families are all intertwined. I also think there is a Marianna or Marion Gumkowski somewhere too. This might be the link between families. This just opens a bunch of paths for me to take. Thank you!
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donnadski
Joined: 06 Jul 2020
Replies: 6
Location: United StatesBack to top |
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:16 pm
Post subject:
| mcdonald0517 wrote: | Hello again,
I did some looking around for parish records and this is what I have found so far:
1. The books available online are very limited: 1890-1906. Also, many of the books that are available are fragmented and missing pages or are faded. The year you need - 1889 - is not available. Here is the link where you can find the books and browse through them if you want:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/2789071?availability=Family%20History%20Library
2. Because the books are not available online, you may need to hire a researcher to call the archives to see if those books are available, but just haven't been digitized and put online yet. If they are available, the researcher can go in person to search for your records. Polish Origins can help with that, if you send them a request.
3. I found ONE marriage record through the Geneteka database for Jozefa Tyszka (see attached image). Here is the link to the page:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=07mz&rid=4033&search_lastname=Tyszka&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=Wiktoria&from_date=&to_date=
Jozefa may be an older sister of Marianna. Her parents are listed as: Franciszek Tyszka and Wiktoria (Victoria) Łada. I am attaching the record. If you post it in the Russian translation forum of this website and request a translation, Marcel will do it for you. You may find more details once it is translated. Also, if you go to the page using the link above, and then hover your cursor over the "I" at the end of the line entry, it will show some comments about the record. If I am reading it properly, it seems the groom is age 40 born in Glina, and was married once before to Marianna Rulesza. The bride is age 30 born in Załuski. The marriage took place in Gumki on 08 Jul 1901.
I have attached the marriage record image; it is entry #23 on the page.
That is about all I can find at this point because of the limited records available.
Also, great find Sophia on the additional passenger list page. I had wondered if there was a second page. The name of the person/people she is visiting reads to me as: Szymon and Marianna Gumkowski. I looked in Geneteka database to see if the Gumkowski surname was in their parish (it was) and to see if the Tyszka surname was ever connected to the Gumkowski surname by marriage (it was but not by anyone in your immediate family tree).
Best of luck with your research,
Cynthia |
Cynthia - just as I said to Sophia, you two have been amazing. I am surprised at the amount of useful info you have both been able to dig up. This will keep me busy for awhile! Thank you again!
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