SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1028
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:47 am
Post subject:
| dnowicki wrote: | | Sophia wrote: | George, enjoy your time away!
Diane, that is such an excellent map. It shows Lubicz sitting right on the very border between Prussian and Russian Poland, prior to the first world war. On the map, just southeast of Lubicz, I see a cross which should indicate a church in Brzozowka (accent over the second "o"). Or is the dot with the cross associated instead with Dobrzejewice? Whichever it is, that might be the place to look for Grams family records. If we are lucky enough to find records in the right timeframe for Edmund's birth or his parents' marriage (early 1920s), they ought to be in Polish.
Best,
Sophia |
Hi George, Sophia & Diane,
During the 19th Century Lubicz was within the German Partition. According to the Słownik geograficzny there was a Lutheran parish there and the Catholic parish was in Kaszczorek Link: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_V/401
After WWI, according to the Skorowidz...(published c. 1930) Lubicz was the site of both a Lutheran and a Catholic parish. Link: http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/applet?mimetype=image%2Fx.djvu&sec=false&handler=djvu_html5&content_url=%2FContent%2F12786%2Fdirectory.djvu&p=912 The pertinent entry is Lubicz koło Torunia. The last column on the right contains the parish info.
Since 1925 (or 1924) falls within the 100 year privacy rule it probably would be necessary to contact the registry office or the parish.
Hope this info helps.
Dave |
Hi Dave,
Yes, of course, I should have realized the 100 year privacy rule would make access to records from the 1920s improbable to find online. Thanks for adding that to our discussion.
I have a question regarding the links you posted. Both the Slownik Geograficzny and the Skorowidz list several places named Lubicz; each mentions one that is within the powiat of Lipno. The document that George received gave his father's birthplace as Lubicz, Lipno. How, then, would one know that "Lubicz kolo Torunia" is the relevant entry?
Best,
Sophia
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2782
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:18 pm
Post subject:
| Sophia wrote: | | dnowicki wrote: | | Sophia wrote: | George, enjoy your time away!
Diane, that is such an excellent map. It shows Lubicz sitting right on the very border between Prussian and Russian Poland, prior to the first world war. On the map, just southeast of Lubicz, I see a cross which should indicate a church in Brzozowka (accent over the second "o"). Or is the dot with the cross associated instead with Dobrzejewice? Whichever it is, that might be the place to look for Grams family records. If we are lucky enough to find records in the right timeframe for Edmund's birth or his parents' marriage (early 1920s), they ought to be in Polish.
Best,
Sophia |
Hi George, Sophia & Diane,
During the 19th Century Lubicz was within the German Partition. According to the Słownik geograficzny there was a Lutheran parish there and the Catholic parish was in Kaszczorek Link: http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_V/401
After WWI, according to the Skorowidz...(published c. 1930) Lubicz was the site of both a Lutheran and a Catholic parish. Link: http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/applet?mimetype=image%2Fx.djvu&sec=false&handler=djvu_html5&content_url=%2FContent%2F12786%2Fdirectory.djvu&p=912 The pertinent entry is Lubicz koło Torunia. The last column on the right contains the parish info.
Since 1925 (or 1924) falls within the 100 year privacy rule it probably would be necessary to contact the registry office or the parish.
Hope this info helps.
Dave |
Hi Dave,
Yes, of course, I should have realized the 100 year privacy rule would make access to records from the 1920s improbable to find online. Thanks for adding that to our discussion.
I have a question regarding the links you posted. Both the Slownik Geograficzny and the Skorowidz list several places named Lubicz; each mentions one that is within the powiat of Lipno. The document that George received gave his father's birthplace as Lubicz, Lipno. How, then, would one know that "Lubicz kolo Torunia" is the relevant entry?
Best,
Sophia |
Hi Sophia,
The answer to the question is that the ancient Romans were correct when they said: “Errare humanum est” (“To err is human”). I erred. The more pertinent Lubicz is #3 in the first entry in the Słownik, which is L. Polski rather than Lubicz koło Torunia. The error can be attributed to haste and cerebral numbness caused by spending the entire day weeding the perennial flower beds—a totally mind numbing task. Both the flowers and the weeds are thriving after our wet May. Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Lubicz Polski is the place on the map which Diane posted and obviously was in the Russian Partition. The others were in the German Partition. As you noted, on maps of the Second Polish Republic it very difficult to see to which powiat the Lubicz locations belonged. I would call all of them suburbs of Toruń. All are really close to each other and near Toruń. To my numbed mind it seemed that the place where Edmund was born should have been either a large village or a small town and Lubicz koło Torunia (Lubicz Dolny on contemporary maps) fit that bill whereas Lubicz Polski was simply described as a wies & folwark, which made me think of it as more rural. Anyway, the parish for the revised opinion Lubicz is Dobrzejewice (cf. link for contact info: http://diecezja.samba.com.pl/pl,parafia,sw_wawrzynca,120,1.html#tresc_strony ) and the current parish for Lubicz koło Torunia is in Lubicz Gorny (cf. link: http://diecezja.samba.com.pl/pl,parafia,matki_bozej_czestochowskiej_i_sw_waclawa,119,1.html#tresc_strony).
Perhaps I should give up weeding and just sit outside enjoying the feel of the late spring gentle zephyr and taking an afternoon nap. Perhaps that would eliminate any future errors.
Sorry for the confused and incorrect info,
Dave
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1028
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Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 am
Post subject:
Hi Dave,
Weeding the perennials! That is exhausting work, indeed. Here, the red-winged blackbirds have been training their young to fly so I am not "permitted" to be out in the garden. The opportunistic weeds are therefore getting a huge advantage.
Thank you for straightening out the location of the various Lubicz locations. You always bring such good information to the discussions on this forum. George now has the best chance of finding the records that he seeks.
Best,
Sophia
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George Grams
Joined: 07 May 2019
Replies: 14
Location: Salt Spring Island, BC, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:53 am
Post subject: SUCCESS
In order to facilitate the slow progress I was making in tracing my father's roots, I hired a Polish law firm to help. Some four weeks later they've come up with some interesting information including my father's war records. He was forcefully enlisted into the Kriegsmarine but escaped with the help of the French resistance who helped him make his way to the UK where he enlisted in the Polish Navy. I've been furnished with new documents from that period that include photographs. With this information I've decided to apply for Polish citizenship which I understand should take 3 - 5 months. My daughter has decided to do the same.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1028
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Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:44 am
Post subject: Re: SUCCESS
| George Grams wrote: | | In order to facilitate the slow progress I was making in tracing my father's roots, I hired a Polish law firm to help. Some four weeks later they've come up with some interesting information including my father's war records. He was forcefully enlisted into the Kriegsmarine but escaped with the help of the French resistance who helped him make his way to the UK where he enlisted in the Polish Navy. I've been furnished with new documents from that period that include photographs. |
Hi George,
This is wonderful news! Thank you so much for coming back to the forum to share it with us. It must have been quite a moment, when you finally had this piece of your father's history revealed to you. Good for you, for pursuing it.
All the best,
Sophia
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Beata Garrett
Joined: 14 Jul 2020
Replies: 1
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:11 am
Post subject: We are related!
Hi George, my name is Beata Garrett (nee Kowalik). My mother was Wanda Kowalik (nee Kowalska), daughter of Anna (Edmund's sister).
I shall be checking out more information and maybe even a photo, and will get back!
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