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Lori Love

Joined: 05 Feb 2018
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:30 am Post subject: Things that don't make sense...or drive you crazy

I really try to figure things out on my own…I really do! I use Google translator, I have a notebook of references, I pay for every online resource and I feel great as to how much I have learned. No matter how much I think I know, I get stuck from time to time!
I have reached a dilemma and I don’t know how to find my answer. I hope someone here can assist me. For simplicity, I am using English names rather than the German or Latin, or Polish name, (I am well aware that, for example, Albert is also known as; Albrecht, Adalbertus, Wojciech, and George.)
My issue is with my great uncle. His name was Adam Tomporowski. He was born in Bursch, Neidenburg, East Prussia, on January 19, 1948. I know this for a fact as he was in the Army in the Franco-Prussian war and I have his soldiers book.
In the early 1980’s I found an old envelope in my mother’s things. The postmark was in 1928. It was addressed to Adam Tomporowski in Chrosle. I wrote to the address and received a letter back from his son, Ignacy, living in Bydgoszcz. We wrote back and forth for years. In 1988 I visited him in Poland. I still have all the letters. Most are translated. I have a few that I can’t find a translation for.
As far as I know, Adam Tomporowski was married twice. The 2nd marriage produced a son when he was 58 y/o. That son was named Ignacy Tomporowski... Ignacy said his father was married twice, first to Franciszka Katryinska and 2nd to Malgorzata Nawrocka. Ignacy writes; His father was Adam who had 2 sons with his first wife, Frank, and Jozef. Frank left at 17 y/o in 1885 and went to Chicago. Jozef left Poland in 1912 and went to Pennsylvania. Ignacy was 8 when Jozef left and remembers him well.
Ignacy also said there was a sister who stayed in Poland named Julia Tomporowski who married a man named Lubacka, had 6 children, and settled in Iława near Olsztyn.
I have over a dozen letters from Ignacy. Each one restates the information that his father was married twice. The father died when Ignacy was 19 y/o.
It was a special blessing that I got to meet and communicate with someone that was of the generation of my great grandparents. Everyone else of the generation died before I was born.
Here is where it gets weird. In the death record of Frank Tomporowski, Ignacy’s older half brother who came to Chicago, a different mother is listed. On the site, Geneteka, it lists a woman named Katarzyna Jurkiewicz married to Adam Tomporowski in a Parish called Radomno having 5 other children. So I have a Chicago death record and Geneteka with other children including Jozef, the 2nd son but not including Frank. The year for Jozef matches up.
An old man who lived until age 19 had plenty of time to talk to his dad. I have plenty of letters repeating over and over again that Adam was married twice, not 3 times. A child would know if there was another wife! Why would over a dozen letters never mention another wife?
Maybe I am not knowledgeable to find the correct information. I am attaching a timeline of the siblings of Adam and the life of Adam, assuming the additional children are his. I am not comfortable with looking for descendants when I am not sure as to who are the wives of Adam Tomporowski.

Parents and siblings of Adam Tomporowski:
Albert Tomporowski-born about 1820, somewhere near Szczytno. He gets married to;
Marianna Truszczynska-born about 1824, somewhere near Szczytno. They had children that I either have the birth records to or know them as they immigrated. They include;
Anna Tomporowski--1842---Soldau, Neidenburg, East Prussia
Michael Tomporowski---1843---Sakrau, “ “
Maria Tomporowski---1847-1847---Bursch, “ “
Adam Tomporowski---1848---Bursch “ “ “
Martin Tomporowski---1849---Bursch “ “ “ Married Wilhelmina Slawinska from Kurkau, record says Martin is from Sakrau and married in Soldau in 1872
Theodora Tomporowski---1852---no birth record
Wilhelm Tomporowski---1856---no birth record
Augusta Tomporowski---1859---Sakrau, “ “ “
John Tomporowski---1862---Sakrau, “ “ “
For reference here, Martin, Theodora, Wilhelm, and Augusta immigrated and we have a strong paper trail and knowledge of the 50 children they had in Minnesota and the 100’s of grandchildren collectively.
My puzzle is with Adam Tomporowski.
.
Adam timeline
1848-Born in Bursch
1870-Joined the Army
1874-Frank born
1878-Thomas born-Mother Katarzyna
1879-Julia born
1800-1881 Antoni Jozef born-Mother Katarzyna
1881-1885 Magdalena born-Mother Katarzyna
1882, Dec-out of Army
1883-1883 Marianna born-Mother Katarzyna
1883- Worked in a mine in Gelsenkirchen, W. Germany to earn money to buy farm
1886-Jozef born Mother-Katarzyna
1903-approximate date of marriage with Franciszka Katryinska
1904-Ignacy born in Chrosle
1923-Adam dies-Farm inherited to his brother (Ignacy is 19)
1937-brother who got the farm died

I am just looking for confirmation that indeed Adam Tomporowski was married 3 times, and his son is Frank J.Tomporowski from Chicago, or I want to know there are more than one Jozef Tomporowski and more than 1 Adam Tomporowski and that is the confusion. How can so many letters leave out one wife?

Sophia
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:23 am Post subject:

Hi Lori,
It all comes down to how much weight you want to give to an individual record. For example, if you had Frank's birth certificate, I would put a great deal of trust in the names of his parents. Looking at Frank's death certificate, I have less trust in the names of his parents - - for a few reasons. First, his death is so removed in time from his birth. Second, the informant for that piece of info on his death certificate may not even be family, or if it is, they are providing info in a time of stress, and there is no requirement for them to show any document that backs up the names they gave as Frank's parents. Does this approach help you?
Regarding what you see on Geneteka, all you know is that there an Adam Tomporowski who has a wife you never heard of. If you are able to follow through and look at the source documents behind the Geneteka index entries, you may find that this is a totally different Adam Tomporowski than your Adam Tomporowski, despite the year for Joseph matching up.
Are you able to pull up these documents?
Sophia

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:04 pm Post subject:

Hi Lori and Sophia,

The Jozef Tomporowski you found in Geneteka is your Jozef. I found a 1920 passenger list for him traveling from Poland to his brother a Frank in Chicago Ill. His former residence in the US was Nanticoke, Luzern, PA. The second page of the passenger list shows Frank Tomporowski as his brother living in Chicago, IL. The passenger list shows Jozef’s place of birth as Radomno. This document ties Jozef in Geneteka and Frank as brothers. Frank is also listed on Jozef’s WWI draft registration as his contact person. Furthermore, Jozef married in 1920 and his parents are listed as Adam Tomporowski and Catherine Yarkewicz (which sounds like Jurkewicz as shown in Geneteka).
I am attaching both pages of the 1920 passenger list for Jozef.

Can you post the death certificate you have for Frank so we can see it?

Best,
Cynthia

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dnowicki
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:10 pm Post subject:

Sophia wrote:

Hi Lori & Sophia,

There is a middle ground between a birth record & a death record—a marriage record. Frank married Stanisława (aka Stella) Ratajczak on Nov. 7, 1897 in St. Casimir Cath. Church (currently: Our Lady of Tepeyac [Nuestra Señora de Tepeyac]) in Chicago. Here is the link to the marriage record. It is on Page 9, Entry 17 for 1897: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9H6-FRZ?i=31&wc=M66P-R3D%3A39816601%2C40646301&cc=1452409. His father was Adam Tomporowski and his mother was Katarzyna Jurkiewicz. Since according to Hoffman’s surname book there were only 399 individuals with that surname in Poland in 1998. It would be a bit of a stretch to posit that there were 2 individuals named Adam Tomporowski married to a Katarzyna Jurkiewicz who had a son named Franciszek/Frank. Franciszek/Frank may or may not have been baptized in the parish of Radomno as were his younger siblings but those records are not online and the way to access them would be to contact the parish in Radomno. At this time it is not possible to pull up records for the needed years from Radomno online on Family Search. On Geneteka if you hover over the Z icon you will see that the records of his younger siblings are housed in the parish archives of Radomno. As a who cares aside, St. Casimir parish church is a very large structure. It is one of the places in Chicago with which I’m familiar. (My brother and I did some work for the parish and so we spent about three months working there about half a lifetime ago.) Here is a link to some info about the parish church: https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/st-casimir-church-in-chicago-the-sculptures-polish-parishes-and-churches-in-chicago-worthmann-steinbach-studio/CAGBAMznn9O1rA?hl=en

Regarding the third wife…I doubt that she existed. Most likely Adam was only married twice. One would think that a child would have known how many times his father had been married and to whom, but that is not necessarily true. Ignacy obviously never knew Katarzyna and unless he asked the right questions he may not have known her correct maiden name. Since Joseph’s arrival manifest in 1920 states that he had been in the USA for 5 years in 1917 (in Pennsylvania) and that in1920 he was going to his brother Frank who was living at 2541 Whipple St. in Chicago (St. Casimir parish is located at Cermak Road & Whipple St. Cermak Rd. was known as 22nd Street but the name was changed to Cermak Rd. in honor of Chicago’s mayor, Anton Cermak, who was killed in 1933 after being hit by a bullet intended for President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt.) Since Frank and Joseph were brothers and since on Genetyka Joseph’s mother was Katarzyna Jurkiewicz and Frank’s mother was Katarzyna Jurkiewicz that the name Ignacy provided was not correct. Here are links to the two pages of Joseph’s 1920 arrival manifest: page 2: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TH-X9ZH-D?i=545&cc=1368704 and page 1: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TH-X9ZS-B?i=544&cc=1368704&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJ6CL-GJW

BTW Radomno is the parish to which Chrośle belongs.

I hope that this info helps to resolve your doubts.

Dave

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:16 pm Post subject:

And... here is the 1920 marriage record for Jozef. Note he lists his mother as deceased. Perhaps that is why he was in Poland - his mother’s funeral?

Also, Do you have the marriage record for a Frank? His marriage record would list his parents.

Best,
Cynthia

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dnowicki
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:46 pm Post subject:

mcdonald0517 wrote:

According to the timeline Lori posted, his mother died before the birth of his half brother Ignacy in 1904 so her funeral could not have been the reason for his return to Poland.

Also, I posted a link to the marriage record of Frank in 1897 at St. Casimir parish in the Little Village neighborhood of Chicago. The record confirms the names of his parents and thus Frank & Joseph were full brothers.

Dave

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:57 pm Post subject:

Thanks Dave... good stuff! It seems our posts crossed so I didn’t see your link to Frank’s marriage record until now.

Cynthia

dnowicki
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:19 am Post subject:

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Thanks Dave... good stuff! It seems our posts crossed so I didn’t see your link to Frank’s marriage record until now.

Cynthia

Hi Lori, Sophia & Cynthia,

It seems that the reason Joseph returned to Europe in 1917 and came back to the USA in 1920 was because he had volunteered to serve in Haller’s Army aka The Blue Army during WWI. Link to Haller’s Army records https://pgsa.org/pgsa-search/results/?pgsa_search=other_search&surname=tomporowski&first_name=&type=wild-card&records=hallersarmy The documentation can be obtained from the PGSA for a fee. Haller’s Army was recruited mainly from young Polish immigrants to the USA and fought alongside the French on behalf of their Polish homeland which was still partitioned. After the end of WWI they participated in the Polish-Soviet War (1919-1920). One can say that Joseph played an active role in the events which led to the formation of the independent Second Polish Republic. Here is a link to Haller’s Army website http://www.hallersarmy.com/index.php
A closer reading of the ship’s manifest for Joseph’s return to the US shows that those with whom he sailed were Poles who had been members of Haller’s Army. The date of return (1920) seems to indicate that those returning had stayed in Europe to participate in the Polish-Soviet War.

Link to PRCUA Insurance claims for Antoni Tomporowski in 1925 and for Wiktoria in 1946. PRCUA insurance claims are usually about 10 pages long and contain quite a bit of good genealogical info. They can be obtained from the PGSA for a fee. https://pgsa.org/pgsa-search/results/?pgsa_search=other_search&surname=tomporowski&first_name=&type=wild-card&records=prcuainsurance

I hope that this info is both interesting and helpful.

Dave

mcdonald0517
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:08 pm Post subject:

That is fascinating, Dave! Thanks for the links to these resources.

Cynthia

Sophia
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Things that don't make sense...or drive you crazy

Lori Love wrote:

Hi again Lori,
Perhaps you could clear up some confusion.
You wrote that, according to Ignacy's letters, Adam Tomporowski was married twice - - first to Franciszka Katryinska (I think the spelling is more likely to be Katryńska or Katrzyńska) and second to Malgorzata Nawrocka. But then in your timeline for Adam, you show an approximate marriage date to Franciszka in 1903. How can that be, if she was the first wife?
You wrote that Ignacy said that the first wife gave birth to sons Frank and Jozef. You said Ignacy also mentioned a sister Julia. Don't you think it is ALSO puzzling that Ignacy never mentioned these other "siblings" that you found on Geneteka?
You have to look at the original documents of birth/baptism for Adam's children, in order to know who was born to which mother and who is really in your family.
Even though the Tomporowski name is rare, it does not mean there could not have been two Adams. As Dave mentioned, there were 399 people in Poland using that name in 1998, to which I would add the 116 people who used the spelling Tąporowski. Still, it is a rare name.
I agree with Cynthia that posting Frank's death certificate could be useful.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia

Lori Love

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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:58 pm Post subject:

Hello Sophia, Cynthia, and Dave,
First, thank you all for your contributions.
Here is the Family search link for his death information. However, when I click to see the actual document, I keep getting a message that the information is not available at this time. https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/KC3N-N3Z
The informant is his son.
I did make an error in the order of the wives. I wrote, 'first to Franciszka Katryinska and 2nd to Malgorzata Nawrocka', and it is the other way around.
I re-read all the translated letter today and do see a bit of confusion. Sometimes he said his brothers went to Ohio and one time he said Canada. However, letter after letter only lists his mother and one other wife for his father.
The part about Haller's Army is very interesting! I had never heard about it!
I don't know who Antoni and Wiktoria Tomporowski but I will research them.
I am going to post parts of his letters where I see the names of his father's wives. The translations are done by someone in Poland and included with most letters. It may be possible that the translations are inaccurate. Maybe someone here will see something I am not seeing!
Thanks, everyone!
Lori

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marcelproust
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:16 pm Post subject:

Lori Love wrote:

October 23rd, 1983.

Dear Lori! Beloved family!

I am writing back to Your letter of July 16th 1983.
I found my dad's military record book (in parentheses it is spelled in distorted German: Militärpass) issued on 1870. My father's dad's name is written there as Wojciech, and mother's as Marianna nee Truszczyńska.

My father Adam, had two sons from his first marriage: Franek (Franciszek) and Józef. They both went to the USA before the First World War. Franek was 17 years old when he left in 1885 and he stayed in Chicago. Józef left in 1912. I remember him well, I was 8 years old. Their mother's name was Małgorzata nee Nawrocka.

My name is Ignacy. I am the only child from the second marriage. My mother's name was Franciszka nee Katryńska.

Franek had six sons and one daughter. He even sent a picture of the whole family after the First World War. Józef had two daughters. They are both dead for sure, but the sons should still be alive.

I was very worried that I had not received a letter from Sylwester. I'll write to him.
His mother wrote to us after the Second World War that he had returned from the war but that he had lost his eyesight.

I have worked for 40 years in the post office. I retired in 1969. I did not make a pile. i live in a small room and I have a small kitchen, without any comforts. I don't work anywhere anymore. I get up in the morning, go to the store, buy milk, bread, I eat breakfast and I go to the church to pray for Your and your's family health. I go for a walk. I read books and newspapers at home. And this is how day after day passes.

I send heartfelt greetings and hugs. Lots of health for you and the whole family.

Signed by: Ignacy and his wife Aniela.
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

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Lori Love

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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:43 am Post subject:

These are additional letters from Ignacy, the son of Adam Tomporowski. Just as a reminder, he listed 2 wives of his father yet the documentation shows 3 wives. I am concerned as to how someone wouldn't know how many prior wives his father had. My original question is if there were two people named Adam Tomporowski, hence why there was a wife I didn't know of. I am attaching a few other letters. My early translations were made by me looking up each word in a Polish-English dictionary. That could be an issue.
Again, thank you for any and all assistance!

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marcelproust
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:16 am Post subject:

Lori Love wrote:

here I put a summary of the letters:

Letter 2:

written on March 28th 1983, Bydgoszcz.

It is written by Ignacy, son of Adam Tomporowski. His father had two brothers: Marcin and Wilhelm and one sister, who all went in the middle of XIX century to Ohio, Canada. They worked hard there. Ignacy remembers that they sent letters when he was still a child. He remembers his mother was reading those letters aloud. He was collecting these letters. The author of the letter writes that he is 80 years old and that his wife died on May 5th 1973. His daughter Dorota got married and lives in Kraków. Ignacy wrote that he found the second wife, named Aniela in 1975.
There is also information that the 'polish' pope will visit Poland for the second time since he become the pope.

Signed by Ignacy Tomporowski and his wife Angelika.

Post scriptum: All the letters that Ignacy collected were lost during The Second World War.

__________

Letter 3:

May 23th, 1983.

The letter is addressed to Lori and the family.
There is information that Ignacy received the letter with its contents on May 13, 1983.
He visited his daughter Dorota, who lives in Kraków, from May 3rd to May 12th.
He told his daughter that lori asked about Dorota in her letter. Dorota said she would write a letter to Lori, so he gave his daughter Lori's address.
This trip was also Ignacy's pilgrimage to the sanctuary in the city of Częstochowa, called Jasna Góra. There is a venerated icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary there. He prayed for everyone there, the living and the dead.

Poland is getting ready for the Pope's visit, scheduled for June 16, 1983.

Ignacy wrote that despite the fact that was 80 years old, he felt healthy.
He attached a picture made in 1914, as a memento.

Signed: Ignacy and his wife Aniela.

__________

Letter 4:

August 23rd 1983

The letter is addressed to Lori. It is a reply to her letter which she sent on April 9th 1983.
The letter is written by Ignacy and his wife Aniela.
Ignacy writes that Poland was enslaved for 150 years and was under three partitions.
This caused people to emigrate in search of a livelihood.
Young people emigrated to the USA, settled there, and started families.
Such was the beginning of our ancestors. One of them was Marcin Tomporowski.
The author of the letter writer complains that he is unable to answer many of the questions Lori asked him. Time passes and blurs memories.
He mentions that the letters that Marcin, Wilhelm and August wrote to his father: Adam Tomporowski, were lost. They were Ignacy's uncles and they lived close together in Ohio, Canada. They set up farms there.
His dad's first wife died. They had two sons, who left to USA. Franek was 17 years old and he settled in Chicago, the secons brother, Józed, eft Poland in 1912 and he went to.....
______

Letter 4.5:

...to USA and he stayed at his brother's Franek.
Ignacy remembers saying goodby to Józef well.
His father married a second time in 1903. He was born from this second marriage in 1904.
Ignacy writes: 'This is where my father's lineage expires. I no longer have a descendant. (I think it is about a male descendant)'.
So we are children of the same father: Adam and two different mothers. My mother was a widow, she had three sons and one daughter. So we are the siblings of the same father and different mothers.
My brother Józef took part in the First World War in 1917.
He came with Haller's army to the French front and fought for Poland.
In the summer of 1920, Poland regained independence. He came to visit Us and to say goodbye. Haller's army was disbanded. In Gdańsk, they loaded onto the ship and headed for the USA. He got married there and had two daughters. Franek had six sons and one daughter. I have no news from them.
Later, the author of the letter tells about the fact that relatives from the USA often come to Poland and meet their families. He suggests to Lori that if she wants to come to Poland, she can use the help of the Polish Society of America.
He informs that he got Lori's letter on July 16th 1983 and everything that was inside the letter. For what she sent in the letter, he can buy the medicine he needs from abroad.
_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]

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