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Hutstein



Joined: 27 Mar 2021
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Location: Bavaria, Germany

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:37 am      Post subject: Huthsteiner/Hutstein in Warsaw ~1763
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Hello colleagues

I'm searching the birth records of the children of Christian Huthsteiner. He was the court cashier at the Saxonian court in Dresden and moved with Saxonian duke to Warsaw and he obviously converted to Catholicism there. At least one of his sons, Heinrich Christian Huthsteiner, definitely was born in Warsaw between 1761 to 1763, but I do have any idea in what church he got baptised. Likely, several other children were born there between 1748 and 1763, too.

So, my questions:
where did Saxonian court members in Warsaw usually live (close to the palace ?) and what parish was incorporated there ?
Where can I find it's church records ?
Or did anybody find Huthsteiner/Hutsteiner/Hutstein records in Warsaw already ?

Thanks a lot
Josef Hutstein

hutstein.org
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:53 pm      Post subject: Re: Huthsteiner/Hutstein in Warsaw ~1763
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Hutstein wrote:
Hello colleagues

I'm searching the birth records of the children of Christian Huthsteiner. He was the court cashier at the Saxonian court in Dresden and moved with Saxonian duke to Warsaw and he obviously converted to Catholicism there. At least one of his sons, Heinrich Christian Huthsteiner, definitely was born in Warsaw between 1761 to 1763, but I do have any idea in what church he got baptised. Likely, several other children were born there between 1748 and 1763, too.

So, my questions:
where did Saxonian court members in Warsaw usually live (close to the palace ?) and what parish was incorporated there ?
Where can I find it's church records ?
Or did anybody find Huthsteiner/Hutsteiner/Hutstein records in Warsaw already ?

Thanks a lot
Josef Hutstein





hutstein.org


Hi Josef,
I believe I have found the baptism record for Heinrich Christian, in 1761:
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=9&zs=9243d&sy=116&kt=1&plik=098.jpg#zoom=1&x=1404&y=652
It is in Latin.
It is from: "Księgi metrykalne parafii rzymskokatolickiej Św. Krzyża w Warszawie" which are Roman Catholic records of the Church of the Holy Cross, Warszawa-Srodmiescie.
These records are not indexed, so it was a matter of going page-by-page to find him.
Here is the link to the records from that church, if you want to search for other siblings: https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/ar9-zs9243d after you have ascertained whether the record I found is really him.
Best regards,
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:01 pm      Post subject: Re: Huthsteiner/Hutstein in Warsaw ~1763
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Sophia wrote:
Hutstein wrote:
Hello colleagues

I'm searching the birth records of the children of Christian Huthsteiner. He was the court cashier at the Saxonian court in Dresden and moved with Saxonian duke to Warsaw and he obviously converted to Catholicism there. At least one of his sons, Heinrich Christian Huthsteiner, definitely was born in Warsaw between 1761 to 1763, but I do have any idea in what church he got baptised. Likely, several other children were born there between 1748 and 1763, too.

So, my questions:
where did Saxonian court members in Warsaw usually live (close to the palace ?) and what parish was incorporated there ?
Where can I find it's church records ?
Or did anybody find Huthsteiner/Hutsteiner/Hutstein records in Warsaw already ?

Thanks a lot
Josef Hutstein






hutstein.org


Hi Josef,
I believe I have found the baptism record for Heinrich Christian, in 1761:
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=9&zs=9243d&sy=116&kt=1&plik=098.jpg#zoom=1&x=1404&y=652
It is in Latin.
It is from: "Księgi metrykalne parafii rzymskokatolickiej Św. Krzyża w Warszawie" which are Roman Catholic records of the Church of the Holy Cross, Warszawa-Srodmiescie.
These records are not indexed, so it was a matter of going page-by-page to find him.
Here is the link to the records from that church, if you want to search for other siblings: https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/ar9-zs9243d after you have ascertained whether the record I found is really him.
Best regards,
Sophia


Hi Sophia & Josef,

Bad news—the record is the baptism of a girl. Her name was Henrietta Christiana (baptisavi infantem nomine Henericam Christianam natam 12 Julij…) The endings of the names and of the participle (natam) are all feminine. But, on the positive side...The records contained in that image contain names of individuals who had Germanic surnames and were nobles who were court officials and so perhaps that is the correct parish to search.

Sorry to disappoint,

Dave
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:19 pm      Post subject: Re: Huthsteiner/Hutstein in Warsaw ~1763
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dnowicki wrote:


Hi Sophia & Josef,

Bad news—the record is the baptism of a girl. Her name was Henrietta Christiana (baptisavi infantem nomine Henericam Christianam natam 12 Julij…) The endings of the names and of the participle (natam) are all feminine. But, on the positive side...The records contained in that image contain names of individuals who had Germanic surnames and were nobles who were court officials and so perhaps that is the correct parish to search.

Sorry to disappoint,

Dave


Hi Dave,
Thanks for the correction!
I was encouraged because I thought I saw the father's name in the record. However, now that I look back at it, the place I am seeing the name Christian Huttstein is following the word "levantes" so he is a sponsor ("godfather") is that right?
Sophia
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dnowicki
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Location: Michigan City, Indiana

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Post Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:13 pm      Post subject: Re: Huthsteiner/Hutstein in Warsaw ~1763
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Sophia wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


Hi Sophia & Josef,

Bad news—the record is the baptism of a girl. Her name was Henrietta Christiana (baptisavi infantem nomine Henericam Christianam natam 12 Julij…) The endings of the names and of the participle (natam) are all feminine. But, on the positive side...The records contained in that image contain names of individuals who had Germanic surnames and were nobles who were court officials and so perhaps that is the correct parish to search.

Sorry to disappoint,

Dave


Hi Dave,
Thanks for the correction!
I was encouraged because I thought I saw the father's name in the record. However, now that I look back at it, the place I am seeing the name Christian Huttstein is following the word "levantes" so he is a sponsor ("godfather") is that right?
Sophia


Hi Sophia,

That is correct. Those lifting up the child were the sponsors aka godparents.

Dave
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:56 am      Post subject: Re: Huthsteiner/Hutstein in Warsaw ~1763
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Hi Josef,
There are at least two entries in "Księgi metrykalne parafii rzymskokatolickiej Św. Krzyża w Warszawie" (Roman Catholic records of the Church of the Holy Cross, Warszawa-Srodmiescie) where Christian Hutstein is a sponsor ("godfather"). So far, I have not found any record for his children being baptized, but since he was a sponsor for other baptisms, it does demonstrate that Warszawa-Srodmiescie is the right place to look for them.
Best regards,
Sophia



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Hutstein



Joined: 27 Mar 2021
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Location: Bavaria, Germany

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:14 am      Post subject:
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Hello Sophia and Dave,

thanks a lot for Your many replies.
I already found Henriette several months ago and her godfather Ch. Huthsteiner, the second record I did not know.
But I did not find any other Hutstein within records of this church either, that's why I'm asking where Saxonians in Warsaw usually lived and baptized their children.
It does not necessarily mean that the Holy Cross church is the right one to search for, but it does mean that Huthsteiner did know the Müller family.

BR
Josef


Last edited by Hutstein on Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Hutstein



Joined: 27 Mar 2021
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Location: Bavaria, Germany

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:19 am      Post subject:
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Interesting that also surname Hochheimer is mentioned in these records. Christian Huthsteiner married Johanna Elisabeth Hochheimer ! And I suppose that one other son of Christian H. was given the name Carl (Carolus), too.
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Sophia
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:49 am      Post subject:
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Hutstein wrote:
Hello Sophia and Dave,

thanks a lot for Your many replies.
I already found Henriette several months ago and her godfather Ch. Huthsteiner, the second record I did not know.
But I did not find any other Hutstein within records of this church either, that's why I'm asking where Saxonians in Warsaw usually lived and baptized their children.
It does not necessarily mean that the Holy Cross church is the right one to search for, but it does mean that Huthsteiner did know the Müller family.

BR
Josef


Hi Josef,
I understand your question; however, I do not know how to answer where Saxonians lived in Warsaw. I tried to find an online City Directory of Warsaw for that time period, but I was unsuccessful. One may exist in an archive somewhere, and I encourage you to try to find one.
I hope that you have seen this list of churches in Warsaw. It is very helpful, because it tells you the year in which they opened:
https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=se&file=index&req=search&search=warszawa
There are only a few choices for the years of interest to you. If you click on the name of an individual parish, you can find out more information. Perhaps a good exercise would be to compare, on a map, the locations of these churches to the Srodmiescie neighborhood which is where the Holy Cross Church is. The Holy Cross Church seemed very promising, because of the number of German names and of course the two families for which Christian was a godfather. It was also encouraging because it listed the baptisms of many people who had converted to catholicism. I looked carefully at those records, hoping to find some indication of Christian's conversion (which would not necessarily be in the same year you expect to find one of his children's baptisms). Perhaps I did not go back in time, enough years.
At some point, you may need the help of professional genealogists, such as the Polish Origins team, to obtain documents from either churches or archives which do not put their records online.
All the best of luck to you in your search,
Sophia
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Hutstein



Joined: 27 Mar 2021
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Location: Bavaria, Germany

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:27 am      Post subject:
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Thank You Sophia,
in fact I was searching mainly in Stare Miasto, but the years which are most important to me (1750-1765) are missing.
Are You aware of church records in Warsaw, which are missing (here) online, but available locally ?
Anyhow, You found also Johanna Elisabeth Hochheimer in 1761 unmarried. She married Christian H., likely in Warsaw 1761, and died in Dresden in 1764. Short marriage.
Thank You
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Sophia
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Post Posted: 7 Days ago at 7:16 am      Post subject:
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Hutstein wrote:
Thank You Sophia,
in fact I was searching mainly in Stare Miasto, but the years which are most important to me (1750-1765) are missing.
Are You aware of church records in Warsaw, which are missing (here) online, but available locally ?
Anyhow, You found also Johanna Elisabeth Hochheimer in 1761 unmarried. She married Christian H., likely in Warsaw 1761, and died in Dresden in 1764. Short marriage.
Thank You


Hi Josef,
Yes, that is indeed a short marriage. Hopefully, a happy one.
You are asking about how to find additional records, when the records you need are not online. One way to do it is by looking at the list of churches that I gave you. As an example, if you click on sw. Aleksandra, you see this:
https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=9214
You see that it has “Indeksy w zasobach internetowych” and that gives you the records on Geneteka, but then it also has “Ksiegi w parafii” and that tells you what books are still held at the church itself.
A different example is this one for sw. Marii Magdaleny:
https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=9246
You see it has “Ksiegi w Archiwum Archdiecezjalnym: Warszawa” and that tells you which books are held by the archives of archdiocese.
I just picked these two churches to make the example of how to see where records are kept, not because I think these churches are important to you.
Practically speaking, if you were to approach a professional genealogist from Polish Origins, they could help you much better than I can with the issue of how to find records that are not online. From my examples above, the answer depends on which church you are interested in. Alternatively, you can try contacting the churches and the archive yourself, although communicating in Polish is an advantage.
I have one additional thought for you. I see online some information about the Saxon Palace that once existed in Warsaw. It would have existed during the time that the Hutstein family was in Warsaw. I wonder whether it had its own chapel. Do you think there are records, held in a Saxon archive, which would contain baptism/marriage/death records from this palace?
Good luck in your research,
Sophia
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Hutstein



Joined: 27 Mar 2021
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Location: Bavaria, Germany

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Post Posted: 7 Days ago at 8:28 am      Post subject:
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Thank You Sophia,
exactly such records of any palace chapel in Warsaw I was searching for in Dresden archives, but still no success. In fact it is still not clear whether such a church/chapel was existing or recorded there.
Thanks for the clarification of available records in Warsaw. I probably should visit the city Wink
BR, Josef
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