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Latin records translations
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:22 pm      Post subject: Re: Janikowski/Kitlas?
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your_parades wrote:
dnowicki wrote:
your_parades wrote:
Hi again,

I believe I have found the record for the marriage of my great-great-grandparents, Wladyslaw Janikowski and Maria Kitlaus/Kitlas (or a variant, we don't have clear information). Could you translate the marked section? Beyond their names and children, we have no additional information on them, and would be keen to know more about her family and origins in particular.

Many thanks!
Tara


Hi Tara,

The format in which the record is posted does not allow me to zoom in on the record in order to see all the words and letters. Please post it in another format, e.g. jpg. Also, it would be very helpful if you were to provide whatever geographical info you have—the name of the parish as a minimum.

Thanks.

Dave


Hi Dave,

Sorry about that! I've saved and attached as a jpg, and the record is from the Record books of the Roman Catholic parish from the Archdiocese of Lviv - the marriage would have taken place in the basilica.

Thanks so much!
Tara


Hi Tara,

Thanks. It was easier to read. I translated the given names into their 19th Century Polish form. I’m not sure of the spelling of some of the proper nouns. I guess it is not so easy to see letters of unfamiliar names with eyes that are no longer on the summer side of life.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

Title: Liber copulatorum = Marriage Register pag(ina) = page: blank

C.1: 1887
C1a: Numerus positionis = number in order: Lacking
C1b: Mensis = Month: October 1
C1c: Numerus Domus = House Number: 38 from 56
C2: Sponsus = The Groom
C2a: Nomen = Name: Władysław Janikowski, official of the circuit of Lwów, the son of Tomasz and of Julia née Andrysaka(?)
C2b: Religio = Religion
C2b1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
C2b2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
C2c: Coelebs = Bachelor: Checked
C2d: Viduus = Widower: Blank
C2e: Aetas = Age: 30
C3: Sponsa
C3a: Nomen = Name: Marya/Maria Kitlus, born in Stansów (?). the daughter of Ferdynand and of Tekla née Popiel
C3b1: Religio = Religion
C3b1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
C3b2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
C3c: Coelebs = Maiden: Checked
C3d: Vidua = Widow: Blank
C3e: Aetas = Age: 28
C4 Testes Nomen et Conditio = Witnesses Name and Status/Condition: Leon Barecki, official of (illegible) & Michał Mich???, a townsman of Lwów

The final entry at the bottom of the record states that the priest (whose name I’m not able to read) examined the couple and, since no impediment was discovered, blessed the marriage.
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jmcenaney



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Post Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:23 pm      Post subject:
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Hi,
I'm not exactly sure what type of document this is (birth, marriage, etc.). The names I recognize are Valentin Schalkenbach and Apollonia Braun which appear just below where it says "Majus" on the right. I'm wondering if someone can translate this entry for me. Thank you!
Jaime



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:50 am      Post subject:
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jmcenaney wrote:
Hi,
I'm not exactly sure what type of document this is (birth, marriage, etc.). The names I recognize are Valentin Schalkenbach and Apollonia Braun which appear just below where it says "Majus" on the right. I'm wondering if someone can translate this entry for me. Thank you!
Jaime


Hi Jaime,

The document is a birth & baptism document. I will translate the given names into English rather than into Polish. The child was John Schalkenbach.

Here follows the translation. I hope that you find it useful.

Dave

Left Margin: John Schalkenbach
Right Margin: May (1830)
Body of Entry: John Schalkenbach, the legitimate son of Valentine Schalkenbach, a hired worker*, and of Apolonia Braun, was born on the first day of May and was reborn** on the same day. Those lifting (him) up*** were John Hoffmann by proxy**** Francis Xavier Rohmer, sexton/caretaker/sacristan***** of the parish church of the Blessed Virgin, and Anna Maria Kirck(?), resident of Treviri.

Notes: *mercinarius/hired worker: someone who works for wages. A good example of someone who does a task for wages would be a mercenary soldier, who fights for wages rather than out of loyalty to a cause. He was not a soldier but worked for wages.
**natus et renatus/born and reborn: refers to physical birth and the spiritual rebirth of being baptized. Renatus/reborn is a circumlocution for being baptized.
***levantibus/those lifting (him) up: a circumlocution for sponsors aka godparents.
****per procutorem/by proxy: The male sponsor aka godfather was not present at the baptism by was represented by Francis Xavier Rohmer who acted as proxy.
*****aetdituus: can be used to describe each of the three similar, but not identical, jobs.
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j_lex



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Post Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:54 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Dave,

Looking for a little help on some Latin translations. I believe I have the general meaning, but I am getting tripped up on a few words. I would appreciate if you could take a look when you have some time. I struggled a bit more with the marriage records.

The original files I downloaded are too large to attach, so I cut and pasted the applicable lines into a .jpg, but the quality is poor so I've also provided links if needed.

Unrelated to the translations, but after seeing many Franks, Johns, Michaels, Peters, etc. one thing that surprised me was coming across names like Hyacinthus, Chrysostomus, Bonaventura, Aegidius, Cyprian. I don’t know if you have any insight, and maybe it is just coincidence, but is there any reason historic Greek names popped up more frequently during this time.

As always, thank you!


Lubiń (par. Rzymskokatolicka) – Birth/Baptism Record 1865
85. Born June 1 at 9 in the evening, a legitimate boy, baptized June 5th, Antonius from Bierzw (?), Father Ignatius Wieczorek, Mother Clara Klak, both Catholic, father’s occupation Co(n?)fuarius (??), Godparents Antonius Lubinski (Cofuarius from Bierzw) and Catharina Klak (maiden from Lubin).

I generally come from a long line of day laborers and farm hands, but I have been unable to find anything similar to that with respect to the father and godfather’s listed occupation. I’m stumped on manual labor beginning with ‘c’ vowel ‘f’. That occupation is repeatedly listed throughout the documents so it must be fairly common.


Lubiń (par. Rzymskokatolicka) – Marriage Record 1853
13. May 8, Ignatius Wieczorek (29 Catholic), juvenile from Wyskoc parrish in Stary-Lubosz and Clara Klak (21 Catholic), maiden from Luszkowo. Joined together in (capulati sunt in…) … highest (excelsia?) Lubin parrish. The bans precede the witnesses, Chrysostomus Srajek from Luszkowo and Bonaventura Raczkowski from Darnowo (both men with the aforementioned occupation). Notes: Himself a legitimate son of living Ignatuis and deceased Regina. Herself legitimate daughter of living Hyacinthus Klak and deceased Catharina.

I really fall apart in the middle of this record trying to determine the text in “Utrum in matrimonio jam vixere nec non utrum sub tutela parentum vel tutorum adhoc existant” and “Consensus Parentum vel Tutorum.” I understand the heading, but am having trouble making the possible answers fit. I believe it is the first marriage for both and they are of age. Also in notes, I am making the assumption that the first word is a derivative of ipse.


Lubiń (par. Rzymskokatolicka) – Marriage Record 1853
45. November 20, Ignatius Wieczorek (60 Catholic) widower from Wyskoc parrish in Stary-Lubosz, married to deceased Regina, and Agnes Lis (60 Catholic) widow from Luszkowo, wife of deceased Mauri Lis. Joined together in highest (excelsia?) Lubin parrish. In both second(?) marriage. The bans precede the witnesses Bonaventura Konieczny and Cyprian Dominikowski Juquilinus from Luszkowo. Notes: Himself a legitimate son of deceased Bartholomeus and Regina. Herself legitimate daughter of deceased Aegidius Waśtok and Magdalena.


Lubiń (par. Rzymskokatolicka) – Death Record 1855
47. March 18 in Luszkowo, Ignatius Wieczorek (62), Inquilinius(unknown?) first marriage to Regina, deceased, second marriage to Agnes, living. Occupation Inquilinius, father Bartholomew, mother Regina. Legitimate son. Died of a fever. Reported by the widow (wdoris?). Notes: Buried on March 21.


85. http://basia.famula.pl/en/record/NTNfMzM3Nl82Xzk2XzEyXzVfX18xODY1X2I3MmI0OWU2YjZlMmU1MjkzMmVhNDUwODM1YTE3NWYxX2thdF9h

13. http://basia.famula.pl/en/record/NTNfMzM3Nl82Xzg0XzdfM19fXzE4NTNfYTc4ZmY0Y2NkNmUyYjY2MzY5MjNhZmZhZmM4YjZlZjhfa2F0X2I

45.
http://basia.famula.pl/en/record/NTNfMzM3Nl82Xzg0XzEzXzVfX18xODUzXzA3YTZiODg4ZjQ5NWYyMzFhZDFkNGYwYzQ0ODhkZTM4X2thdF9i

47. http://basia.famula.pl/en/record/NTNfMzM3Nl82Xzg2XzQyXzNfX18xODU1X2VkZTNkYjgyZGYxZjBmOWRiODY5ODQ4NDg4NTI5OTNhX2thdF9j



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:13 pm      Post subject:
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j_lex wrote:
Hi Dave,

Looking for a little help on some Latin translations. I believe I have the general meaning, but I am getting tripped up on a few words. I would appreciate if you could take a look when you have some time. I struggled a bit more with the marriage records.

The original files I downloaded are too large to attach, so I cut and pasted the applicable lines into a .jpg, but the quality is poor so I've also provided links if needed.

Unrelated to the translations, but after seeing many Franks, Johns, Michaels, Peters, etc. one thing that surprised me was coming across names like Hyacinthus, Chrysostomus, Bonaventura, Aegidius, Cyprian. I don’t know if you have any insight, and maybe it is just coincidence, but is there any reason historic Greek names popped up more frequently during this time.

As always, thank you!

Hi,

You certainly did well extracting most of the info. I will not repeat all the correct data but only add what is lacking or not quite correct.

1865 B&B #85: Antonius in Polish is Antoni (English: Anthony); Place of birth: Bierzyn; Father: Ignacy (Polish) Ignatius (English); Mother: Spelled Klara in Polish; Father’s occupation: Cassarius (Also spelled casarius), cottager/tenant farmer/farm hand (The letter which looks like “f” is the way “s” was written when a word contained a double s. Catharina is Katarzyna in Polish.
The long line continues but without knowing more about the individuals involved one cannot say which translation fits best.

1853 Marriage #13: Again, Ignatius is Ignacy in Polish; juvenis = (single) young man = bachelor. Clara is Klara in Polish. Groom was from Stary Lubosz in the parish of Wyskoć. Again, Clara is Klara in Polish; Copulati sunt in ecclesia parochiali = They were married (joined together) in the parish church of Lubin. Utrum etc. = Uterque in matrimonio non vixerunt. Sponsa sub tutela patris existit.= Neither lived in marriage (previously). The bride remained under the authority of her father. Groom was 29 & the bride was 21. Both were Catholic. The groom did not need permission. The bride had the consent of her father. The banns were announced on the 3rd, 4th, & 5th Sundays after Easter. The witnesses were Chryzostom (in Polish) a cottager/tenant farmer/farm hand from Luszkowo and Bonawentra (Polish)/Bonaventure (English) Raczkowski, a cottager/tenant farmer/farm hand from Darnowo. Adnotationes: Sponsus filius legitimus Ignatii viventis et Reginae defunctae. Sponsa filia legitima Hyacinthii Klak viventis et Catharinae defunctae. = The groom (is) the legitimate son of the living Ignacy and of the late Regina. The bride (is) the daughter of the living Jacek Klak and of the late Katarzyna.

1853 Marriage #45: Ignacy Wieczorek from Stary Lubosz in the parish of Wyskoć, husband of the late Regina...wife of the late Makary (Polish) Lis. They were married (lit. joined together) in the parish church of Lubin (ecclesia parochiali); neither needed permission; Banns were announced on the 24th , 25th , & 26th Sundays after Pentecost.
Witnesses: Bonawentura (Polish) Konieczny, a cottager/tenant farmer/farm hand and Cyprian (same spelling in Polish & in English) Dominikowski, a tenant (inquilinus) from Luszkowo.
Adnotationes: The groom (sponsus) was the legitimate son of the late Bartłomiej (Polish)/Bartholomew (English) and (the late) Regina; The bride (sponsa) was the legitimate daughter of the late Idzi (Polish)/Giles (English) Waśtok and the late Magdalena (Polish)/Magdalene (English)

1855 Death #47: Again. Ignacy in Polish. Inquilinus maritus = tenant, hsuband; Agnieszka (Polish for Agnes) ; father Bartłomiej (Polish)/Bartholomew (English); mother: Regina (same spelling in Polish & in English); ex relatione uxoris = from the testimony of (his) wife.

Regarding the given names…Chrysostom & Aegidius/Egidius are Greek; Cyprian was from Carthage in North Africa; Hyacinth was a Polish Dominican priest. Bonaventure was a 13th Century philosopher and theologian. He was known as “the seraphic doctor” Some of his contemporaries were Thomas Aquinas (“the angelic doctor”) and John Duns Scotus (“the subtle doctor”). All except Hyacinth & Bonaventure were from the early days of Christianity and all had a certain following in Western Europe. Sometimes children were given the name of a saint whose feast day was on or near their date of birth. Without birth info it is all speculative. While those names are not among the top 10 on the hit parade of names, they are not extremely unusual.

I’m attaching a list of Latin given names with their Polish & English forms.

I hope this helps.

Dave









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j_lex



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Post Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:31 pm      Post subject:
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Dave,
Many thanks for the valuable help and insight! Cassarius... makes sense! I have to check birth info for some of those individuals when I come across it.

Not to get into the weeds too much, as this is the translation thread, but what clues or context would one generally look for to narrow down the possibilities for cassarius? Or was it somewhat of a catchall for the poorer, uneducated, working class?

Thank you!
J

edit: The 1871 birth record of Ignacy, son of Ignacy and Clara, lists the occupation as operarius, so day laborer.
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SpeedDemonND



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Post Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:36 pm      Post subject: Name transcription
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I would appreciate some help with the following birth record.

I have ancestors whose surnames have different spellings in various birth/marriage records. I’ve seen spellings of Struz, Struzow, Stroz, as well as variations of Szestiuk, etc. written as the surname in question. In this birth record, under the father’s name, it seems to list Gregorius Stróz, followed by a word I cannot read, then the name Szestiuk. Can someone please help me figure out what that word is, and what that might mean as to why I have seen both versions written in numerous places?

Also can someone please tell me what the last two columns say?

Thank you so much!



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:27 pm      Post subject: Re: Name transcription
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SpeedDemonND wrote:
I would appreciate some help with the following birth record.

I have ancestors whose surnames have different spellings in various birth/marriage records. I’ve seen spellings of Struz, Struzow, Stroz, as well as variations of Szestiuk, etc. written as the surname in question. In this birth record, under the father’s name, it seems to list Gregorius Stróz, followed by a word I cannot read, then the name Szestiuk. Can someone please help me figure out what that word is, and what that might mean as to why I have seen both versions written in numerous places?

Also can someone please tell me what the last two columns say?

Thank you so much!


Hi,

The word causing you difficulties is “recte”, an adverb which means “rightly/correctly”. It is often found in records such as this after a “nickname” or a surname by which an individual or family was commonly known. The name which follows the adverb is the correct fornal family name. Stróż is a Polish noun which means “custodian/guard/guardian”. Perhaps he or one of his ancestors had that occupation and thus he was commonly referred to by that name. The entry is translated “Grzegorz Stróż, rightly/correctly Szestiuk, the son of Dymitr and of Paraskewa (née) Łewków”.

About the last 2 columns...The wide column lists the names of the baptismal sponsors aka the godparents. The translation is Mikołaj Stróż & Anna Twordochlib, the widow of Bazyli”. The narrow column (the last column) contains info regarding the status/occupation of the sponsors. It reads: “farmers from Małów”.

I hope this clarifies the record for you.

Dave
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SpeedDemonND



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Post Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:00 am      Post subject:
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Dave, thank you so much for the insight.

I do have a few quick follow-up questions if I may:

1/ It is my understanding that these names are written in Latin because it was the custom of the Roman Catholic Church. Am I correct to assume, however, that their given name would actual be in Polish, and this is what they would be called by everyone around them? For example, “Gregorius” is written on the record, but his actual given name is Grzegorz and he would be called Grzegorz by everyone around him. Is this correct?

2/ In regards to the surname Szestiuk, I've attached a marriage record from a Polish church in NY that lists the last name as Szczeniak. Since this is a Polish church, and all the other surnames listed on the record are spelled the same way I’ve seen in all other Polish records (including the proper accents, tails and strokes on particular letters), is there a reason you believe this particular surname is spelled differently from all the records from Poland listing it as Szestiuk? Obviously, your opinion would only be conjecture, but I would appreciate any possible thoughts to get a better understanding.

Also, can you tell me what the word says that’s written under Maria’s section that says where she was baptized?

Thank you again for your help. It’s greatly appreciated.



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Post Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 11:03 am      Post subject:
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SpeedDemonND wrote:
Dave, thank you so much for the insight.

I do have a few quick follow-up questions if I may:

1/ It is my understanding that these names are written in Latin because it was the custom of the Roman Catholic Church. Am I correct to assume, however, that their given name would actual be in Polish, and this is what they would be called by everyone around them? For example, “Gregorius” is written on the record, but his actual given name is Grzegorz and he would be called Grzegorz by everyone around him. Is this correct?

2/ In regards to the surname Szestiuk, I've attached a marriage record from a Polish church in NY that lists the last name as Szczeniak. Since this is a Polish church, and all the other surnames listed on the record are spelled the same way I’ve seen in all other Polish records (including the proper accents, tails and strokes on particular letters), is there a reason you believe this particular surname is spelled differently from all the records from Poland listing it as Szestiuk? Obviously, your opinion would only be conjecture, but I would appreciate any possible thoughts to get a better understanding.

Also, can you tell me what the word says that’s written under Maria’s section that says where she was baptized?

Thank you again for your help. It’s greatly appreciated.


Hi,

To #1...Latin was the official language of the RC Church for the Mass, Sacraments, records, documents, etc. until after the Second Vatican Council during the 1960s. Yes, given names in sacramental records should be translated into the vernacular which in Poland would be Polish. In Polish immigrant communities in the USA there would often be a dual vernacular—English in some situations and Polish in others. The vernacular was how the individuals were known in their community. It is unlikely that may individuals were aware of what their given name was in Latin.

To #2...The word which indicates where Maria was baptized is “ditto”. Although the remote origin in ditto is “dictus” (“the said”) in Latin, ditto entered the English language via Italian. What it means in this record is that Maria was baptizeded in the same place where Michael/Michał was baptized. He in 1889 and she in 1891.

There are several possible explanations for why the surname appears as Szczeniak rather than Szestiuk. Despite the wording of the preprinted portion of the record, the priest may not have seen the actual baptismal certificates of the bride and the groom. Although in theory the couple should have presented baptismal certificates the reality in early 20th Century immigrant communities was that unless an individual brought a baptismal certificate along when leaving Europe (some did, but many did not) the chances of obtaining one in a timely manner were slim to none. Weddings were not usually planned far in advance. The couple likely did not contact the parish until between 4 to 6 weeks before they wanted to marry. If the priest asked for a certificate at that point there was no realistic possibility of obtaining it within that time frame. The request and the response would be sent by ship and that was usually 2 weeks each way in transit on the ocean. And that does not include the time it took the correspondence to get to the ship and from the ship to its destination. The bottom line is that the situation often caused the priest to dispense with the certificate. In this case the bride would have provided the information orally and depending on her diction the priest would have written what he heard. If the bride were not literate she could not tell him how her mother’s maiden name was spelled. Another possibility is that the bride may or may not have been sure of her mother’s maiden name. Basically, as you said, it comes down to speculation.
BTW The tails, strokes, etc. on letters in terms of grammar are known as diacritic marks. These marks create separate and distinct letters in the Polish alphabet. Such modifications as well letter combinations like rz,cz, sz, etc. were necessary for the Latin/Roman Alphabet to symbolize sounds of the Polish language.

The line in the entry which reads “in hac parochia...commorantem” provides a good clue about the approximate date when the bride arrived in the USA—2 years and 6 months before the wedding. This holds true unless she lived elsewhere in the USA before taking up residence in this parish.

A portion of the record which likely is a legal fiction is the line which reads “Hujus matrimonii...baptizati sunt.” By the late 19th Century a priest who blessed a marriage was supposed to send notification to the parish(es) where the couple had been baptized and the priest in the parish where the baptism took place was supposed to enter that data into the baptismal register. Suffice it to say, frequently that did not happen as it was meant to. The reasons for this requirement of notification would be a topic for another time.

Wishing you continued succesful research,

Dave
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Justin Baker



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Post Posted: 7 Days ago at 4:56 pm      Post subject: Polish records in Latin
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Hi folks. Need a little help deciphering this excerpt from a marriage record. Thanks in advance!


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: 7 Days ago at 9:59 pm      Post subject: Re: Polish records in Latin
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Justin Baker wrote:
Hi folks. Need a little help deciphering this excerpt from a marriage record. Thanks in advance!


Hi Justin,

Welcome to this Forum. Here are a few preliminary comments and hints for posting records for translation. It is best to post your request by providing the link to the digital image of the record you wish to have translated. Here is the link for the marriage record you posted: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSM8-S37H-2?i=994&cat=824216
If you are unable to provide the link, the next best option is to download and, if necessary, to crop the image, leaving as much of the text as possible. The least desirable method is to post a screenshot. Crops of a small portion of the entry increase the difficulty of translating the record.

It makes it much easier to get a handle on the geographical entries in the record if you provide as much information as you can. The bare minimum would be to provide the name of the parish where the record was composed.

In Latin records from the Province of Posen (and Latin records in general) surnames are always in the vernacular. Place names are usually, but not always, in their vernacular form. (In some instances, when they are treated as an adjective, they can appear in their Latin form. In this record all the place names are in their Polish form.

When I translate a record I translate given names into the vernacular. In the case of records from Poland that means in their Polish form. Attached is a list of Latin given names with their Polish and English translations. Always keep in mind that individuals were known by the Polish version of their name and not by the Latin version. Individuals who immigrated to the USA were also known by the English version of their name in the English speaking community and by the Polish version in the immigrant community in the US.

Here follows the translation.

Wishing you continued success in you research,

Dave

Col. 1: Numerus = Number (for the year): 7

Col. 2: Annus et Dies Copulationis = The Year and Day of the Marriage: October 11 (1868)

Col. 3: Nomen Sacerdotis Copulantis = The Name of the Officiating Priest (lit. of the marrying priest): Wiktor Danielski

Col. 4: Nomen et Cognomen Copulatorum, locus habitationis, conditio et professio, et utrum copulatio in ecclesia vel in aedibus privatis subsecuta = The First Name and Surname of those marrying, (their) place of residence, condition and profession, and whether the marriage followed in a church or in a private building: Michał Pieczyński from Kyłybki (current spelling: Kołybki and Anna Busse from Kompanina

Col. 5: Utrum in matrimonio jam vixere nec non utrum sub tutela parentum vel tutorum adhuc existant? Whether they already had lived in the state of matrimony or if not, whether they remained to this time under the tutelage of (their) parents or guardians? The groom: a single young man/bachelor; the bride: a maiden

Col. 6: Aetas = Age
Col. 6a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: 27
Col. 6b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: 19

Col. 7: Religio = Religion
Col. 7a: Sponsi = Of the Groom: Catholic
Col. 7b: Sponsae = Of the Bride: Catholic

Col. 8: Consensus Parentum vel Tutorum = The Consent of the Parents or of the Guardians: Of his own volition and with the consent of the parents.

Col. 9: Proclamatio Bannorum = The Proclamation of the Banns: The 11th, 12th, & 13th Sundays after Pentecost*

Col. 10: Dispensatio a proclamatione = Dispensation from the proclamation (of the banns): B lank

Col. 11: Testes = Witnesses: Michał Cidusch(?); Michał Woźny

Col. 12: Adnotationes = Notations: Blank

Note: * The dates when the banns were proclaimed are given according to the Catholic liturgical calendar in use at the time. To determine the dates according to the Gregorian Calendar it is necessary to determine the date of Pentecost in the year 1868 and then count the Sundays after that Feast.



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