PolishOrigins Forum

 FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in    RegisterRegister 
Author
Message
samueltomkelski



Joined: 14 Sep 2021
Replies: 5
Location: Brazil

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:12 pm      Post subject: Records residency
Reply with quote

Hello my name is Samuel,

I'm mapping my entire family tree and looking for records of my ancestors.

My first ancentral who went from Poland to Brazil was called Wicenty Tomkielski. However, he was 13 years old when he arrived in Brazil in 1890.

He arrived with his parents Franciszek Tomkielski and Katarzyna Wiśniewska (maiden name) and his brothers Adam, Antoni and Wladyslaw Tomkielski.

I found Vincent's baptism in Gósjk, his father's baptism and his parents' marriage in Ligowo.

Wicenty got married in Brazil to Maryanna Rychevski, also born in Poland. However, it has a lot of inconsistency in Brazilian records and I cannot find the original spelling of the surname.

I only know that she was born in 1883 and of hers most of hers were called Samuel and Carolina.

But I would like to find some voting title record, military card, school record, work record.....something that proves their residency.
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3289
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:32 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

samueltomkelski wrote:


I only know that she was born in 1883 and of hers most of hers were called Samuel and Carolina.




Can you please clarify this sentence?
Do You know anything else about Marianna?

I live 10 km close to Gójsk.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
samueltomkelski



Joined: 14 Sep 2021
Replies: 5
Location: Brazil

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:25 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

In the case of Maryanna Rychevski, I mean that I found several records of her with variations in her surname writing like (Riczeski, Rychevski, Richoteski, Richotski and Richetski). I have no idea where she might have come from.
The only information I have in an official Brazilian document is her date of birth: 1883 and her parents' names Samuel and Carolina. But I don't know what their names are in Poland. For example, Mariana in Brazil is Maria.

Who was born in Gósjk was Wicenty. From him I found the baptism in Russian digitized on the My Family Search Org website.

I also found Wicenty's mother (Katarzyna Wiśniewska) and father (Franciszek Tomkielski) marriage certificate and baptisms on My Family Search Org. Both were born and married in Ligowo.

The baptism of Vicente's father is in Polônes. But his mother's baptism and marriage certificate I don't know what language it's in.

What I really need is a record that proves their past residency, such as voting title record, military card, school record, work record......something that proves their residency.



Below is the link to scanned documents that can give more details. I don't know the language and I don't understand what is written.

Wincenty Tomkielski who was born in 1878

[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Wicenty&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1877&to_date=1879&fbclid=IwAR1wCu72L9ZPnOY-pEDlErOsl7kXQqZJkbX9IAMxsQUk-iY9KumHWoGuSmc
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-GJ1S?cat=60183


Franciszek Tomkielski who was born in 1829
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1828&to_date=1829&fbclid=IwAR2uhqzS_UixveUJTLn2tN9Jz-HtbKcWnEjQ-GDLfhjxSes1CJzTjCEnkwg
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSV3-GYXB?cat=354236


Franciszek Tomkielski and Franciszka Katarzyna wedding in 1877
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=07mz&rid=S&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1850&to_date=1878&rpp1=&ordertable=&fbclid=IwAR2uhqzS_UixveUJTLn2tN9Jz-HtbKcWnEjQ-GDLfhjxSes1CJzTjCEnkwg

Katarzyna Wiśniewska who was born in 1859
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=3424&search_lastname=Wi%C5%9Bniewska&search_name=Katarzyna&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1859&to_date=1860&exac=1
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVC-ZLP9?cat=223710

In advance, I really appreciate your help.
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2296
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:23 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

samueltomkelski wrote:
In the case of Maryanna Rychevski, I mean that I found several records of her with variations in her surname writing like (Riczeski, Rychevski, Richoteski, Richotski and Richetski). I have no idea where she might have come from.
The only information I have in an official Brazilian document is her date of birth: 1883 and her parents' names Samuel and Carolina. But I don't know what their names are in Poland. For example, Mariana in Brazil is Maria.

Who was born in Gósjk was Wicenty. From him I found the baptism in Russian digitized on the My Family Search Org website.

I also found Wicenty's mother (Katarzyna Wiśniewska) and father (Franciszek Tomkielski) marriage certificate and baptisms on My Family Search Org. Both were born and married in Ligowo.

The baptism of Vicente's father is in Polônes. But his mother's baptism and marriage certificate I don't know what language it's in.

What I really need is a record that proves their past residency, such as voting title record, military card, school record, work record......something that proves their residency.



Below is the link to scanned documents that can give more details. I don't know the language and I don't understand what is written.

Wincenty Tomkielski who was born in 1878

[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Wicenty&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1877&to_date=1879&fbclid=IwAR1wCu72L9ZPnOY-pEDlErOsl7kXQqZJkbX9IAMxsQUk-iY9KumHWoGuSmc
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-GJ1S?cat=60183


Franciszek Tomkielski who was born in 1829
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1828&to_date=1829&fbclid=IwAR2uhqzS_UixveUJTLn2tN9Jz-HtbKcWnEjQ-GDLfhjxSes1CJzTjCEnkwg
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSV3-GYXB?cat=354236


Franciszek Tomkielski and Franciszka Katarzyna wedding in 1877
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=07mz&rid=S&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1850&to_date=1878&rpp1=&ordertable=&fbclid=IwAR2uhqzS_UixveUJTLn2tN9Jz-HtbKcWnEjQ-GDLfhjxSes1CJzTjCEnkwg

Katarzyna Wiśniewska who was born in 1859
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=3424&search_lastname=Wi%C5%9Bniewska&search_name=Katarzyna&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1859&to_date=1860&exac=1
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVC-ZLP9?cat=223710

In advance, I really appreciate your help.


Hi Samuel,

All the documents you posted are from what in 19th Century Partitioned Poland was the region controlled by Russia. The area was known as The Kingdom of Poland (Polish: Królestwo Polskie). It was not an independent country and the Czar of Russia was technically the king. A rule of thumb for anyone not familiar with the languages used in birth, marriage, and death records from the period is that from 1807 until 1868 the records were in Polish. From 1868 until the end of WWI the records were in Russian, written in the Cyrillic Alphabet. The good thing about the records you have found from 1868 on is that the names of the main persons in the record are first written in Russian followed by the names in Polish. Records prior to 1807 were usually in Latin.

I hope this helps you make sense of what you are seeing. If you post the records in the appropriate language thread you will receive a translation into English.

You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.

Wishing you success,

Dave

PS Samuel is the same in Latin, Polish and English. Carolina is the Latin form of her name, which is Caroline in English and Karolina in Polish.
View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3289
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:12 am      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3289
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:15 am      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

samueltomkelski wrote:
In the case of Maryanna Rychevski, I mean that I found several records of her with variations in her surname writing like (Riczeski, Rychevski, Richoteski, Richotski and Richetski). I have no idea where she might have come from.
The only information I have in an official Brazilian document is her date of birth: 1883 and her parents' names Samuel and Carolina. But I don't know what their names are in Poland. For example, Mariana in Brazil is Maria.

Who was born in Gósjk was Wicenty. From him I found the baptism in Russian digitized on the My Family Search Org website.

I also found Wicenty's mother (Katarzyna Wiśniewska) and father (Franciszek Tomkielski) marriage certificate and baptisms on My Family Search Org. Both were born and married in Ligowo.

The baptism of Vicente's father is in Polônes. But his mother's baptism and marriage certificate I don't know what language it's in.

What I really need is a record that proves their past residency, such as voting title record, military card, school record, work record......something that proves their residency.



Below is the link to scanned documents that can give more details. I don't know the language and I don't understand what is written.

Wincenty Tomkielski who was born in 1878

[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Wicenty&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1877&to_date=1879&fbclid=IwAR1wCu72L9ZPnOY-pEDlErOsl7kXQqZJkbX9IAMxsQUk-iY9KumHWoGuSmc
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVZ-GJ1S?cat=60183


Franciszek Tomkielski who was born in 1829
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1828&to_date=1829&fbclid=IwAR2uhqzS_UixveUJTLn2tN9Jz-HtbKcWnEjQ-GDLfhjxSes1CJzTjCEnkwg
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSV3-GYXB?cat=354236


Franciszek Tomkielski and Franciszka Katarzyna wedding in 1877
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=07mz&rid=S&search_lastname=Tomkielski&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1850&to_date=1878&rpp1=&ordertable=&fbclid=IwAR2uhqzS_UixveUJTLn2tN9Jz-HtbKcWnEjQ-GDLfhjxSes1CJzTjCEnkwg

Katarzyna Wiśniewska who was born in 1859
[Geneteka record] https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=3424&search_lastname=Wi%C5%9Bniewska&search_name=Katarzyna&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1859&to_date=1860&exac=1
[My family search org Document] https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVC-ZLP9?cat=223710

In advance, I really appreciate your help.


Wincenty was born in the village of Jaroszewo, located in the parish of Gójsk.

Here is this village on the map: https://goo.gl/maps/iDESpxJBxW2jg8zRA

If You want more detailed translation of the documents You inducated, just ask.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected].onet.pl
View user's profile
Send private message
dnowicki
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2296
Location: Michigan City, Indiana

Back to top
Post Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:48 am      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Hi Marcel,

That would probably be helpful for Samuel if he wants to do additional research on that topic. It is his decision to make. Your offer is generous.

Dave
View user's profile
Send private message
samueltomkelski



Joined: 14 Sep 2021
Replies: 5
Location: Brazil

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Ah thank you so much! Would be great!
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3289
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:41 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Ah thank you so much! Would be great!


I am working on it.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3289
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:47 am      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Ah thank you so much! Would be great!


I am still waiting for information from the Archives.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
samueltomkelski



Joined: 14 Sep 2021
Replies: 5
Location: Brazil

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:02 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

marcelproust wrote:
samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Ah thank you so much! Would be great!


I am still waiting for information from the Archives.



Oh thank you so much for the feedback.

I have been thinking. Maybe there won't be much information about Wicenty. Because he leaves Poland at 12 years old.

There must be about his parents, (Katarzyna Wiśniewska) and (Franciszek Tomkielski), as they lived most of their lives there.

Including perhaps the parents of Katarzyna Wiśniewska (Balcer Wiśniewski and Dorota Pączkowska ) and the parents of Franciszek Tomkielski (Wojciech Tomkielski and Franciszka Jechowicz) who lived and died in Poland.
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
marcelproust
PO Top Contributor


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Replies: 3289
Location: Poland

Back to top
Post Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:29 am      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Ah thank you so much! Would be great!


I am still waiting for information from the Archives.



Oh thank you so much for the feedback.

I have been thinking. Maybe there won't be much information about Wicenty. Because he leaves Poland at 12 years old.

There must be about his parents, (Katarzyna Wiśniewska) and (Franciszek Tomkielski), as they lived most of their lives there.

Including perhaps the parents of Katarzyna Wiśniewska (Balcer Wiśniewski and Dorota Pączkowska ) and the parents of Franciszek Tomkielski (Wojciech Tomkielski and Franciszka Jechowicz) who lived and died in Poland.



I have just received the letter from the Płock State Archives, informing that the Archives do not have in their resourses the Census records for Gójsk and Ligowo.

_________________
My translations are voluntary, but they take a lot of time and effort, so whenever you want to send money it will be a very nice "Thank you" gift to me.
THANK YOU Smile

PAYPAL: [email protected]
View user's profile
Send private message
samueltomkelski



Joined: 14 Sep 2021
Replies: 5
Location: Brazil

Back to top
Post Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:38 pm      Post subject: Re: Records residency
Reply with quote

marcelproust wrote:
samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
samueltomkelski wrote:
marcelproust wrote:
dnowicki wrote:


You will be hard pressed to find the other types of documents you mentioned. Residents of Russian Poland could not vote. Most were peasants who were illiterate and did not attend school. The only military records would have been of men who had been conscripted into the Czar's army and may Poles of military age decided to emigrate in order to avoid that fate.



Dear Dave,

I can also ask in the State Archives if the census records for thie area of Gójsk and Ligowo survived.


Ah thank you so much! Would be great!


I am still waiting for information from the Archives.



Oh thank you so much for the feedback.

I have been thinking. Maybe there won't be much information about Wicenty. Because he leaves Poland at 12 years old.

There must be about his parents, (Katarzyna Wiśniewska) and (Franciszek Tomkielski), as they lived most of their lives there.

Including perhaps the parents of Katarzyna Wiśniewska (Balcer Wiśniewski and Dorota Pączkowska ) and the parents of Franciszek Tomkielski (Wojciech Tomkielski and Franciszka Jechowicz) who lived and died in Poland.



I have just received the letter from the Płock State Archives, informing that the Archives do not have in their resourses the Census records for Gójsk and Ligowo.


Thank you so much for you help! Too bad they don't have these records.
View user's profile
Send private message
Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PolishOrigins Forum Index -> Villages and towns of our ancestors' origins All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB ©

© 2021 COPYRIGHTS BY THE OWNER OF POLISHORIGINS.COM