Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:21 pm
Post subject:
I got the birthplace of Sroda for my great grandmother from an experienced genealogist who researched our Polish ancestors. I assumed it was Sroda Wielkopolska, especially since her husband was from nearby Koszuty. I haven't had a chance to look into her family yet. Thanks for all the information. wuness
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:41 pm
Post subject:
I just looked at my great grandfather's marriage certificate. His birthplace is listed as Rusiborz Colonie. What does that indicate, specifically? wuness
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:13 am
Post subject: Record translation
Hi. I just found this site and am so excited for help translating the first german records of my family that I have found. If possible, please help in translating the two attached documents. Thank you.
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SophiaPO Top Contributor
Joined: 05 Oct 2014
Replies: 1033
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:46 am
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | I just looked at my great grandfather's marriage certificate. His birthplace is listed as Rusiborz Colonie. What does that indicate, specifically? wuness |
Hi,
Lots of great information here from Dave and Michael. I will add a little bit to what they have said.
Regarding records for Giecz, Dave is right that you cannot access the Family Search microfilms from home; however, you can see them on the Polish archives website:
https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/zespol?p_p_id=Zespol&p_p_lifecycle=1&p_p_state=normal&p_p_mode=view&_Zespol_javax.portlet.action=zmienWidok&_Zespol_nameofjsp=serie&_Zespol_id_zespolu=18806
Admittedly, that website is a little less user friendly than Family Search, for "paging through" the old church books. If you could just look at the link I provided and see whether the years of records correspond to what you need for births (urodzen), marriages (malzenstwa) or deaths (zgony), then I can help you if you need assistance navigating the site. You may do just fine without assistance.
To your question of what Rusiborz Colonie means .... In simple terms, a colony is just an offshoot of an existing place. You can expect fewer people to be there. It is, to my understanding, simply a term of the administrative level of a place. There are definitions wherever you live, of what constitutes a village, or a town, or a city. You may be familiar with things like townships, etc. So the word colony is just another such word. As places became more populated, and "suburban sprawl" occurred, you may find that an area that was once "Colonie" ("Kolonia") merged with its original associated town.
I expect, if you were to pull the church records from this time period, you would see that a person's place or residence would indicate whether they lived in the town or the colony.
Best of luck in your research,
Sophia
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: Record translation
| davisongen wrote: | | Hi. I just found this site and am so excited for help translating the first german records of my family that I have found. If possible, please help in translating the two attached documents. Thank you. |
Hello
Please find attached the translations of the birth and of the death record for Ida Helene Elisabeth Dilla. Frauendorf [Polish Golęcino] is today part of Stettin [Polish Szczecin].
Best
Michael
A. No. 239.
Frauendorf, on June 4, 1890.
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, of known identity, the midwife [Hebamme] Regine Stolzenburg, born Lube, residing in Stolzenhagen, and gave notice that
Auguste Dilla, born Maleski, of Protestant religion, wife of the worker [Arbeiter] Gottlieb Dilla, of Protestant religion, residing with her husband in Klein Stolzenhagen, on May 29, 1890 at half past four o’clock p.m. in Klein Stolzenhagen in her husband’s flat gave birth to a child a female gender and that the child received the names Ida Helene Elisabeth. The midwife Stolzenburg declared that she was present at the time of birth.
Read aloud, approved and signed.
Regine Stolzenburg.
The Registrar.
von der Osten.
C. No. 331.
Frauendorf, on October 11, 1890.
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, of known identity, the worker [Arbeiter] Gottlieb Dilla, residing in Klein Stolzenhagen, and gave notice that
Ida Helene Elisabeth Dilla, 4 months 11 days old, of Protestant religion, residing in Klein Stolzenhagen with him, the notice giver, born in Klein Stolzenhagen, daughter of the notice giver and of his wife Auguste, born Maleski, in Klein Stolzenhagen, died Klein Stolzenhagen in the flat of the notice giver on October 10, 1890 at 9 o’clock p.m.
Read aloud, approved and signed.
Gottlieb Dilla.
The Registrar.
von der Osten.
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Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:54 pm
Post subject: Thank you
Michael,
That is great. Thank you for your help.
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:21 am
Post subject:
Thank you for the fascinating discussion relating to my recent posts concerning Rusiborz. Thus far, I have been content with translations of difficult place names, etc., in marriage documents. I feel I'm missing important background by not being able to read the entire marriage certificate of my great grandparents. Would you please translate the marriage certificate of Frank (Franz) and Marie (nee Slomian) Olsztynski. His parents were Adalbertus and Magdalene (nee Nowak) Olsztynski. Her parents were Valentin and Antonie (nee Grynia) Slomian. Thank you.
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:45 am
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Thank you for the fascinating discussion relating to my recent posts concerning Rusiborz. Thus far, I have been content with translations of difficult place names, etc., in marriage documents. I feel I'm missing important background by not being able to read the entire marriage certificate of my great grandparents. Would you please translate the marriage certificate of Frank (Franz) and Marie (nee Slomian) Olsztynski. His parents were Adalbertus and Magdalene (nee Nowak) Olsztynski. Her parents were Valentin and Antonie (nee Grynia) Slomian. Thank you. |
Hello,
Please find attached the translation of the marriage record.
Best
Michael
B. No. 22.
Michalowo, on November 15, 1890.
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today for the purpose of marriage:
1. The laborer [Arbeiter] Franz Olsztynski, of know identity, of Catholic religion, born on October 15, 1865 in Rusiborz Colonie, county [Kreis] Schroda, residing in Rusiborz Colonie, county [Kreis] Schroda, son of the laborer [Arbeiter] Adalbert Olsztynski and his wife Magdalene, born Nowak, residing in Rusiborz Colonie.
2. The maid [Magd] Marie Slomian, of known identity, of Catholic religion, born on November 29, 1869 in Nietrzanowo, county [Kreis] Schroda, residing in Ulejno, county [Kreis] Schroda, daughter of the laborer [Arbeiter] Valentin Slomian and his wife Antonie, born Grynia, residing in Ulejno.
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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:04 pm
Post subject:
Thank you for the translation. I have one last marriage certificate I would like you to translate. The document was filed in Santomischel (Zaniemysl) for my paternal great grandparents, Jan (Johann) and Rozalia (nee Stasik) Wujek. His parents were Casimir and Franciska (nee Kujawa) Wujek. I don't know her parents. Thanks again. Dave
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2793
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:30 pm
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Thank you for the translation. I have one last marriage certificate I would like you to translate. The document was filed in Santomischel (Zaniemysl) for my paternal great grandparents, Jan (Johann) and Rozalia (nee Stasik) Wujek. His parents were Casimir and Franciska (nee Kujawa) Wujek. I don't know her parents. Thanks again. Dave |
Hi Dave,
Rozalia Stasik’s parents were Mateusz Stasik and Józefa Labiak. They were married in Mądre. Here is their marriage record: Stasik-Labiak Marriage Mądre 1854 #5 https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/1481751#scan7
Józefa Labiak’ parents were Jakub Labiak & Elżbieta Walkowiak. They married in Mądre. Here is their marriage record: Labiak-Walkowiak Marriage Mądre 1820#9 https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/1481744#scan14
Here is Józefa Labiak’s birth record: https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/1481637#scan4
The Józwiak-Słomian wedding took place in the Catholic parish church of St, Lawrence (św. Wawrzyńca} in Mączniki. The contemporary church was built in 1700. Here is a link to info about the parish & church. http://drewnianekoscioly.pl/language/en/st-lawrences-church-in-maczniki/
The website includes pictures of the church (exterior & interior). Your ancestors would have recognized the contemporary church building.
You mentioned that you felt that you were missing important info by not being able to read the records which you’ve found. That is indeed true but there is more to it than that. The civil marriage records in German were entered on a two page form. You missed the second page of each record. The problem is that the second page appears on the scan following the scan of page 1 so if you don’t check that scan you will miss good old page 2. Page 2 usually includes the signatures of the bride and the groom and whatever witness went with them to the registry office, if they were literate. The Province of Posen (German: Provinz Posen, Polish: Prowincja Poznańska) was a province of Prussia from 1848 and as such part of the German Empire from 1871 until 1918 and since many of the villages in the province had a literacy rate of over 50% there is good chance that the bride & groom signed the registry form. That was the case for two sets of your ancestors. Here is page 2 of the Olsztyński-Słomian Marriage https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/1403441#scan47 and here are both pages of the Wujek-Stasik marriage: Wujek-Stasik Marriage 1891 page 1 https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/1416740#scan13
Wujek-Stasik Marriage 1891 page 2 https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/jednostka/-/jednostka/1416740#scan14
During the Partitions of Poland from 1815 to 1848 the region was known as The Grand Duchy of Posen (German: Großherzogtum Posen; Polish: Wielkie Księstwo Poznańskie).
As you notice, the 1854 & 1820 marriage records are in Latin rather than German. The reason is that originally Catholic priests and Lutheran ministers were charged with submitting copies of the parish registers to the civil authorities to serve as civil vital records. In 1874 the reunited German Empire switched to civil records offices which were independent of religious connections. Those are the types of records which you have posted. However, Catholic parish priests, of course, continued to keep sacramental records in Latin in the same format used prior to 1874. I would encourage you to use both the civil & the religious records in your research since the religious records usually contain information not found in the civil records.
If you have not used the following sites as research aids I would strongly recommend them. The info regarding the earlier marriages and the birth record of Józefa Labiak came from those sites and there is plenty more information on those sites which should aid your research. The sites are: http://www.basia.famula.pl/en/ & http://poznan-project.psnc.pl/ & https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/ & https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/
Wishing you success in your research,
Dave Nowicki
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:45 am
Post subject:
Dave: Thank you for the information. I thought I had attached the first page of Jan and Rozalia Wujek's marriage certificate to my post. Apparently not. I didn't realized there was a second page to the marriage certificates. My bad. I should have realized there had to be signatures and witnesses listed somewhere. I see the signatures of Jan and Rozalia on their document. An interesting side note. Jan had an older brother, Tomas, who was born 7 years earlier, and married 9 years earlier, than Jan. On the marriage certificate of Tomas, the bride, groom and the witnesses all signed the document with "XXX."
I have used the Posnan Marriage Project, and my main resource is Basia. I'm not familiar with the other sources you listed but will look into them. wuness
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:58 am
Post subject:
Dave: One further question. What is the written word above the signatures? wuness
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Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:09 pm
Post subject:
In a post Sunday, i asked for a translation of a marriage certificate for my grandparents but didn't include the document. The document was filed in Santomischel (Zaniemysl) for my paternal great grandparents, Jan (Johann) and Rozalia (nee Stasik) Wujek. His parents were Casimir and Franciska (nee Kujawa) Wujek. Her parents were Mateusz and Josepha (nee Labiak) Stasik. Could you translate it? Thanks again. Dave
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2793
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:11 pm
Post subject:
| wuness wrote: | | Dave: One further question. What is the written word above the signatures? wuness |
I don't know. That would be a question you should ask Michael. My linguistic expertise is in Latin and Polish.
Sorry that I can't help on that question.
Dave
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:39 am
Post subject:
| dnowicki wrote: | | wuness wrote: | | Dave: One further question. What is the written word above the signatures? wuness |
I don't know. That would be a question you should ask Michael. My linguistic expertise is in Latin and Polish.
Sorry that I can't help on that question.
Dave |
I’m not sure whether I found the right scan but the wording above the signature was quite the same in all marriage documents:
If the spouses as well as the witnesses could write, it was: “Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben” (“read aloud, approved and signed”), followed by four signatures.
If one or several persons from the group of spouses or witnesses could not write, it was declared who signed and who made his sign, followed by the signatures and the signs (“XXX”).
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