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Latin records translations
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JGwizdowski
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 am      Post subject: Re: Request help with deciphering names...
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Many, many thanks, Dave...your explanations are always imminently informative, helpful, and insightful!!
Best,
Joe

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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:21 pm      Post subject: Re: Age required to be a a godfahter
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Hello Gilberto,

A man or a woman could be a baptismal godparent/sponsor before reaching the age of majority (21). The requirements were and are that the person had been baptized and had made their First Confession and First Holy Communion. Prior to the reforms of Pope Pius X in 1910 in which he lowered the minimum age for First Communion to the age of reason (7 years old) it was customary for a person to receive their First Communion between the ages of 12 to 14. So after age 12 to 14 a person was able to be a baptismal godparent/sponsor. Your ancestor who was a godparent in 1700 could have been born a few years later than what you calculated—as late as 1688, but also could have been born considerably earlier.

For my ancestors who lived in the parish of Słupy (near Szubin in Kujawsko-Pomorskie) Easter Duty lists survived from the late third quarter through the fourth quarter of the 18th Century. These lists only included parishioners who had made their First Confession and Communion and thus were required to fulfill their “Easter Duty” of going to Confession and Communion during the Easter season. The youngest of my ancestors who appeared on an Easter Duty list appeared in the 1782 list and since he was born on 7 September 1769 he would have been 13 years old in 1782 and would have been qualified to be a godparent from that time on.

I don’t know if you were following posts on the forum in March, April & May of this year. Zenon posted a five part article by Piotr Zelny on property inventories
https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=55978#55978 You may find Piotr’s excellent article worth reading as it does provide much information about the lives of our ancestors prior to the Partitions. If you would be able to locate inventories from the places where your ancestors lived you could possibly find specific details about the land they worked and their feudal obligations to the owner of the village where they lived—all things which put flesh on the bare bones of dates of birth, marriage and death.

I hope our current discussion provides you with new avenues to research.

Dave[/quote]

Dave,
I have just taken a quick look at it and it seems to be a fantastic source. I will read it more carefully later.
Thanks for letting me know about it.
Gilberto
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davisongen



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:44 am      Post subject:
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Hi,
I am looking for help translating the attached record, specifically entry 23, dated May 31 on the lower right of the page. The year on the record is 1794. I believe it is either a birth record or baptism record from a Catholic parish in Germany.

Thank you.



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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:41 pm      Post subject:
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davisongen wrote:
Hi,
I am looking for help translating the attached record, specifically entry 23, dated May 31 on the lower right of the page. The year on the record is 1794. I believe it is either a birth record or baptism record from a Catholic parish in Germany.

Thank you.


Hi,

The record, like all the entries on the two pages, is a baptismal record. There is no explicit birth information included. However, based on the grammatical case ending the child was male and since he was baptized by the midwife his birth took place on the same day as his baptism. Whether he was stillborn or born alive and was in distress immediately after birth cannot be determined from the record. If the child was stillborn the baptism would have been conditional since there are no Sacraments for the dead. In a conditional baptism the phrase “I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” would have been amended to “If you are alive I baptize you etc.” If the child was born alive and survived the danger of his distress at birth it was customary for the parents to bring the child to church after he had grown stronger for all the ceremonies which surrounded the main event (the pouring of water while speaking the above words). This “supplying of the ceremonies" would have been entered in the baptismal register if and when that event took place. It may be worthwhile to check the remaining entries for the year to determine if that did take place. All the entries on the two pages are “bare bones” containing only the date, the child’s name, the names of the parents & the sponsors aka godparents and the name of the one baptizing. Since this was an emergency baptism there were no sponsors/godparents. Surnames and place names are in the vernacular. Since I haven’t a clue about the name of the parish where the baptism I have no way to verify the geography but I’m sure that you can use a map to verify those details. The surnames and the geography are my best reading of the text. I am not able to read the given name of the child’s father. (The father’s name in all the remaining entries is clear and legible but not in the entry of interest to you.)

Anyway, the translation will follow.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

Right Margin: (Baptism Number) 23 (for the year 1794); unnamed/without a name (innominatus*)
Body of Entry: 31 May
The Parents: Ulrich Weichmann and Victoria Rauchin from Greimoltshofen
The person baptizing: The midwife of necessity (i.e. in emergency)

Note: *innominatus: the prefix -in/im when attached to Latin words indicates that the word means the opposite of the main part to the word. Nominatus=Named; Innominatus=unnamed. The same is true of English words—e.g. secure vs insecure.


Last edited by dnowicki on Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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davisongen



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:29 am      Post subject:
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Dave,

Wow. Thank you for the translation and thank you so much for the additional background information. It gives so much light to the story. I very much appreciate your time.

Josh
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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:45 am      Post subject:
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davisongen wrote:
Dave,

Wow. Thank you for the translation and thank you so much for the additional background information. It gives so much light to the story. I very much appreciate your time.

Josh


Hi Josh and Dave,

The names of the parents are Udalricus (today Ulrich) Weichmann and Victoria Rauchin (the suffix “in” indicating a female name, so the name is “Rauch”), they are from Greimoltshofen (today Greimeltshofen) in the parish Kirchhaslach. The couple got several children, among them Dominicus, baptized on August 4, 1789. This entry was made by another priest, hence the names are easier to read.

Josh, you might already know this page, if not I would recommend a look:
https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/augsburg/kirchhaslach/

Best
Michael
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davisongen



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:13 am      Post subject:
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Michael and Dave,

Thank you both for all of the information. I am new to this site and I am very excited I found it. You both have gone above and beyond. Thank you!

Josh
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:02 pm      Post subject:
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davisongen wrote:
Michael and Dave,

Thank you both for all of the information. I am new to this site and I am very excited I found it. You both have gone above and beyond. Thank you!

Josh


Hi Michael & Josh,

Thanks for the corrected names, Michael. Strange to say, from long ago reading medieval chronicles from Germany I remembered that the Latin for Uldrich is Uldaricus, Uldarici, m. and I actually saw that as a possible reading in the record but just couldn’t see my way clear to interpreting the handwriting that way. I’ll correct the names in the translation.

I’m attaching a list of Latin, Polish & English given names. Perhaps you both may find the English equivalents useful.

Here is a translation of the 1789 baptism of Dominic. Perhaps Michael can correct the surname of the female sponsor/godmother. Here is the link to the record: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/deutschland/augsburg/kirchhaslach/3-T/?pg=28

Left Margin: (Baptism Number) 34 (for the year 1789); Dominic; +*
Body of Entry: 4th of August
Parents: Uldrich Weichmann and Victoria Rauchin
Sponsors aka godparents: Adam** Bauer and Victoria Ganzin(?), all from Greimoltshofen
The one baptizing: The same as above

Notes: *The sign of the cross indicates that the child died in infancy. It is worth noting that the children recorded on the two pages suffered from an almost 47% infancy mortality rate (8 of 17)
**In Latin the name Adam is usually treated as indeclineable but also can be treated as a 2nd Declension noun (Adamus, Adami, m.)

All the best,

Dave



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Kmichael8



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Post Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:53 am      Post subject:
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Hi Dave and Josh,

Dave, I would support your reading of the surname of the female sponsor/godmother as "Ganzin" or "Ganz".

Best
Michael
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wuness



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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:00 pm      Post subject:
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I have two screenshots from the marriage notice of Mathaeus and Josephus (nee Labiak) Stasik from Madre in 1854 (line 5). It appears the birthplase for Mathaeus is Garby, which would be correct. What is the birthplace for Josepha? The second item is the ages for the couple. Is the age for Mattaeus 23 or 28? I would say 23 but the "3" doesn't exactly match up with the "3" four lines below. Thank you. wuness


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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:42 am      Post subject:
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wuness wrote:
I have two screenshots from the marriage notice of Mathaeus and Josephus (nee Labiak) Stasik from Madre in 1854 (line 5). It appears the birthplase for Mathaeus is Garby, which would be correct. What is the birthplace for Josepha? The second item is the ages for the couple. Is the age for Mattaeus 23 or 28? I would say 23 but the "3" doesn't exactly match up with the "3" four lines below. Thank you. wuness


Hi wuness,

Józefa was born in Wyszakowo. Since the first letter is not exactly clear I located her birth & baptism record to confirm my reading of the village and am attaching the b&b record. The age of the groom, Mateusz Stasik, is indeed 23. A reliable method of confirming that the number is 23 besides comparing the way the number 3 is written (which often in not exactly the same in multiple entries) is to eliminate the possibility of it being 8. If you look at the year, 1854, the 8 is not at all similar to the last digit of his age. It was not an uncommon way to write the numeral 8. I like to call it a “lazy” 8 since the number almost looks like it is reclining. Also, if you look at the date column for entry number 4 the date is 18 July. The 8 is similar but not identical to the 8 in the year. Such minor variations in handwritten entries is natural. It is easy for minor variations to occur in handwritten documents.

The translation of the entire record follows.

Wishing you continued success,’

Dave

Col. 1: No. = Number: 5

Col. 2: Annus et dies benedictionis sacerdotalis = The year and the day of the sacerdotal blessing: 9 October1854

Col. 3: Nomen sacerdotis benedictionem sacerdotalem administrancis = The name of the priest administering the priestly blessing: Marcin Surname?

Col. 4: Nomen, praenomen et cognomen sacro ritu conjunctorum. Sedes, conditio et professio, et num benedictio sacerdotalis in ecclesia peracta sit = The name, first name and surname of those joined together in the sacred rite. (Their) abode, condition/state of life and profession, et whether the sacerdotal blessing was carried out in a church or at home: Mateusz Stasik, a bachelor, son of farmers from Garby and Józefa Labiak, a maiden, daughter of farmers from Wyszakowo.

Col. 5: Utrum jam prius conjugium iniverint, nec non untrum ad huc sub potestate parentum vel turorum sint = Whether the already had been married previously, if not, whether thus far they are under the authority of (their) parents or guardians: and not yet.

Col. 6: Aetas = Age
Col. 6a: Sponsi = of the groom: 23
Col. 6b: Sponsae = of the bride: 16

Col. 7: Religio = Religion
Col. 7a: Sponsi = of the groom: Catholic
Col. 7b: Sponsae = of the bride: Catholic

Col. 8: Consensus parentum et tutorum = The permission/consent of the parents and guardians: of the parents (plural)

Col. 9: Dies proclamationis: Dates of the proclamations (of the banns): 17, 24 September, 1 October
Col. 10: Dies dispensationum, si qua forent = Date of dispensations, if any happened: Blank

Col. 11: Nomen, conditio et professio testium qui benedictioni sacerdotali adfuerunt = The name, condition/state of life and profession/occupation of the witnesses who were present for the priestly blessing: Piotr Stasik, father (of the groom); Jakub Labiak, father of the bride.

Col. 12: Adnotationes = Notations: Blank



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wuness



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:03 pm      Post subject:
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Dave: Thank you for the information. I appreciate the translations of the column headings. That is very helpful. Dave
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wuness



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Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:21 pm      Post subject:
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Dave: In my recent post on Mathaeus and Josepha Stasik you replied to Friday, you noted that the groom's father was Piotr (Petrus) Stasik. I haven't been able to find the wife of Petrus. Marriage certificates are my go-to source for parent names, but this notice doesn't have the wife/mother. The closest person that fits all the dates and places is Hedwig Gielnik (Gielnionka), but I can find no conclusive evidence that Hedwig is the wife of Petrus and mother of Mathaeus. Everything is circumstantial. Can you help? Dave
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ertylisz
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:52 pm      Post subject:
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Attached is a marriage document that I would like to have translated. It is for Andrzej Haluch and Helena Smolkowicz. For reference I am also sending the complete two pages for information on dates as I do not see the actual day of marriage for Andrzej and Helena. Thank you in advance for the translation. Gene Tylisz


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ertylisz
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:57 pm      Post subject:
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Here are the 2 pages of the marriage document for Andrzej Haluch and Helena Smolkowicz.
Gene Tylisz
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