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Stewey75



Joined: 12 May 2017
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:02 pm      Post subject: Advice or Help
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Hello,
I've been researching my husband's family for quite a while now. I am looking for advice, guidance, or help to find one of our brick walls. I've searched and searched Genteka and Metryki, FamilySearch and ancestry, and even google maps to kind of hone in on the path of this ancestor with no luck. I think partly because I can't find her birth record, marriage record, or death record of her. The only way I know of her is because my husband's GGGrandfather remarried and it states her name and a small amount of information in his 2nd marriage record. Also, she is mentioned in her son's death record and daughter's marriage record. I can' provide everything I have so far but am hoping someone has suggestions on where else to look and if I'm on the right track because right now I feel like it's a needle in a haystack and I keep looking and looking but nothing concrete turns up.

Ancestor information:

Franciszka Lang/Langa/Langow

Born approx 1850 (One document says born in Bielawy another says Niegocin, Prussia)

Marriage to Franciszek Orkwiszewski (Between1870-1886)

Birth of Son, Jan Orkwiszewski - About 1875 and his death 1896, Lipowiec Koscielny (see death record #9)

Birth of Daughter, Anna Orkwiszewska - About 1886, Rozental, Warminsko-Mazurskie. Anna married Michal Mikolajczak in 1892 at Lipowiec Koscielny. (see marriage rec #16) I believe she then immigrated to US.

Death of Franciszka - 1886 Prussia.

Franciszek Orkwiszewski remarried in 1887 to Kataryzna Borowska which states Franciszka passed a year earlier. (see 2nd marriage record #20)

I've attached the google map below showing maybe parishes that might be along that area but no luck matching them up with Genetka, Metryki or family search and the ones I have found don't either have the birth year or they don't have Lang/Langa in the records.

I'm a bit lost now. I'm sure it's because I've been trying to trace this for some time now but the record just saying she was born and died in Prussia seems to be overwhelming on where to start or area to look. To be honest I'm still even not sure the exact spelling of her surname.

Any help or guidance would be sooooooooo greatly appreciated!

Tammy



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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:51 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Tammy,

I suggest you begin by collecting the birth records for Jan and Anna. They are available through Family Search, but the film you need is locked and can only be viewed at a research center, an affiliate library, or you can send a records request to family search and they will send you the record. All you have to do is fill out a request form and include the index link for the record.

Here is the link for the records request service

https://www.familysearch.org/en/family-history-library/family-history-library-records-look-up-service

Here is the index link for Joannes’ birth record to include in the request:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZXW-Z2WV

I will look a bit more and post again if I find anything
.
Best,
Cynthia


Last edited by mcdonald0517 on Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:15 pm      Post subject:
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Hi again,

So, here is the Family Search link for the parish books for Rozental:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/294902?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Some years are available for viewing online. One is locked as previously mentioned, but you can search it as I did, and then submit a records request as I previously described.

I saw several records for your family when I searched the index. When you search the index for the locked file, keep it broad. Records are in Latin, so the given names are Franciscus and Francisca. For the surname, I used “O*”. Capital O and the wildcard *. I did that because the surname is spelled many different ways.

For the unlocked books, you will have to look through the books by hand. Hopefully they have written indices so it is easier to research.

These parish books are your leading path to finding Francisca Lange by working backwards from her children’s birth records.

I hope this helps.

Cynthia
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Stewey75



Joined: 12 May 2017
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:14 am      Post subject:
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Thank you so much Cynthia! I'm overjoyed that I was able to see that she was in fact a real person. I was thinking maybe she wasn't I and I had information incorrect.
I have also sent a picture from FamilySearch. I had no idea they would do that. I thought you had to request the film like how I did to get Franciszek Orkwiszewsk's 2nd marriage record. Hope to see more of that record in 1-2 weeks Smile
I can't believe they have more children! I didn't know that the lock on the FamilySearch also meant you could search! Though I haven't found Anna's birth record in 1886, I did see 2 other Anna's, 1 was born that passed away at 1 year of age. If the children were baptized would that mean they are catholic? I've seen in that area and that surname some might have been of the Jewish religion.
I really I can't thank you enough!
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:12 am      Post subject:
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Hi Tammy,

Very happy to help. To answer some of your questions: the lock icon means the records can only be viewed from a family search center near you or a library affiliate. However, if you see a magnifying glass icon next to the lock icon, it means the records have been indexed and can be searched. Not all locked records have the search icon. Once you locate the specific record, you can use their record request service.

Yes, the children baptized (Jan, Ignatius, Anna, etc) are Roman Catholic. You can verify that by reading the description paragraph of the film which states they are Roman Catholic parish records.

I suggest you not get side tracked with any connection between their surname and the Jewish faith. This family was evidently Roman Catholic.

Happy researching,
Cynthia
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Stewey75



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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:11 pm      Post subject:
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Thank you so much! Your right the key still is to get her marriage/birth/death record to verify her parents. I found this birth record in 1851. The 1850 I had was an estimate based on one of the other records I posted above.
Could this be her? record 16 I think
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP2-B87J?cat=294902

possibly a sibling 1849 rec 33
Kataryzna https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP2-B8CQ?i=456&cat=294902

Marianna 1846 rec 32
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSP2-B8CJ?i=438&cat=294902
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:22 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Tammy,

I saw those records too. There is a Lange family living in Rozental, but I am not sure it is your ancestor. If you look at marriages in 1870-72, you will see a Francisca Lange marrying someone else - not Franciscus. I also didn’t see any marriage record for your ancestors in Rozental books. They may have married in another parish - probably her birth parish. The key is finding their marriage record. Then you will know for sure you are on the right track.

Best,
Cynthia
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Stewey75



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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:34 pm      Post subject:
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One last question, was it typical that they seem to be in several different parish records? Would Niegocin also be considered West Prussia and under the same Rumian area?
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:34 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Tammy,

It is not unusual to find records in several different parishes. Depending upon the occupation and circumstances of our ancestors, they often moved around to find work.

I am hoping other members of the forum will confirm, add, or correct my findings in this matter, but I think the Bielawy you mention in your original post that you say is near Radzanow, is in Gmina Szrensk. If that is correct, then here is a link to the parish books for Szrensk (some are locked and not indexed so they cannot be searched unless you visit a research center or library affiliate).

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/152533?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Also, it seems that Niegocin is a village in Gmina Lipowiec Koscielny. Here is the Family Search link for Lipowiec Koscielny:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&placeId=71027&query=%2Bplace%3A%22Poland%2C%20Warszawa%2C%20M%C5%82awa%2C%20Lipowiec%20Ko%C5%9Bcielny%22&subjectsOpen=555366-50

I have a couple of questions for you: did you get your records translated in full? If not, I suggest you do. Sometimes there are clues in the records. Also, what is the birth village for Franciszek? You don't mention that in your original post.

Best,
Cynthia
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Stewey75



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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:53 pm      Post subject:
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thank you I will definitely check those links out!!
I thought I got the ones I posted fully translated but maybe there are some pieces missing. Is there a site where I can have them professionally translated? I know some are in Russian and some are Polish I think.
Birth Village for Franciszek was saying Bielawy Z³otowskie, Poland (PArish Radzanow) then marriage to 2nd wife in Niegocin, Plock, Poland. I haven't been able to find his death record as well.
Thank you again! Off to check those resources you posted! Thank you again!
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mcdonald0517
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:34 am      Post subject:
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Hi Tammy,

All three of the records you posted in this thread are written in Russian. Only you know if you had them fully translated. If you discover you haven’t, you can post them to the Russian Records Translation forum of this website and request translation. I think it would especially be a good idea to get the second marriage record translated. It usually has the birth village of the groom and bride, age of each, parents of each, etc.

Best,
Cynthia
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Stewey75



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Post Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:07 am      Post subject:
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This is translation I have for Jan Orkwiszewski's death certificate:

Happened in the Village Lipowiec at 22 of January (3 of February) 1896 at 4 pm. Came : Mateusz Wodniak 48 years old and Jan Chojnacki 35 years old farmers living in Niegocin and declared that at 20 of January (1 of February) current year at 10 am passed away in Niegocin Jan Orkwiszewski 21 years old Son of Franciszek and deceased Franciszka ( born Lange ) married couple born in Prussia in Niegocin by his Father living, Single. After visual declaration of Death Jan Orkwiszewski's this Act was read illiterate and signed by us only (administrator of parish of Lipowiec.
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Stewey75



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Post Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am      Post subject:
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This is translation or information for Anna's marriage
the entry on geneteka is correct
14/27 Jan 1904 10 Michał Mikołajczak Stanisław, Rozalia Fijałkowska Anna Orkwiszewska Franciszek, Franciszka Langa (or Lange - check parish for variants of that surname)
parish name is Lipowiec Kościelny, there is no comma in between
Michał is widower of Marianna domo Jódziak?, he is 37, bride is 17
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dnowicki
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:22 pm      Post subject:
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Stewey75 wrote:
One last question, was it typical that they seem to be in several different parish records? Would Niegocin also be considered West Prussia and under the same Rumian area?


Hi Tammy & Cynthia,

To answer Tammy’s question regarding Negocin... the village was within powiat Mławski of the Kingdom of Poland aka Russian Poland. It and the parish to which it belonged, Lipowiec, are west of Mława and east of Kuczbork on the attached 1907 map. Powiat Mławski was where Maciej Orkuszewski and his wife Marianna Synakowska were both from. Here is the link to the Birth of Marianna Synakowska (Par. Dąbrowa 1820 #24): https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=13&zs=0273d&sy=1820&kt=1&plik=22-27.jpg#zoom=1&x=665&y=2532 Attached is an image of their marriage record from the parish of Szreńsk (1842 #10). Again, Szreńsk and other places associated with the couple are within powiat Mławski to the south of Lipowiec on the 1907 map. Some things to note in the marriage record—the date of the wedding was 2 February 1842. Dual dates appear in the record, the first, January 21, was according to the Julian Calendar, which was used by Russia, and the second, February 2, was according to the Gregorian Calendar, which we use. Maciej’s parents were Walenty Orkuszewski and Agnieszka Pawłowska and Marianna’s parents were Walenty Synakowski and Petronela Wojciechowna aka Wojciechowska. Wojciechowna uses the feminine suffix -owna which signified that she was the daughter of Wojciech (Adalbert). Further investigation will likely be needed to lock down her maiden name. The two witnesses at the wedding were the fathers of the bride and the groom. Catholic Church law requires that a marriage ceremony take place in the presence of a priest and two witnesses. In contemporary weddings the two official witnesses are the best man and the maid/matron of honor. When they married the custom was for both witnesses to be men. Both fathers were recorded as being 40 years old, which may or may not be accurate, and they were both gospodarze. A gospodarz was a peasant who worked a full farmstead and thus both families were somewhat prosperous. The bride and the groom were single—a maiden and a bachelor. The bride was 22 and the groom was 20 and both were living with their respective parents. None of the people named in the record were literate and thus the priest was the only person to sign the record. That is about all the significant info. The rest deals with the legalities.

Here are links to Geneteka biths, marriages, and deaths which index Orkuszewski family members. Births: https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=orkwiszewski&search_name=maciej&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=
Marriages: https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=S&w=07mz&rid=S&search_lastname=orkwiszewski&search_name=maciej&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=
Deaths: https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=D&w=07mz&rid=D&search_lastname=orkwiszewski&search_name=maciej&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=

As Cynthia mentioned, the search for employment was one of the main reasons that individuals moved from village to village in Partitioned Poland. It also was an important motivating factor for emigration from Europe. Attached is a short PDF blurb I composed once upon a time. Perhaps you may find it informative and useful.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave



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Stewey75



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Post Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:53 pm      Post subject:
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Hi Dave,

First, thank you so much for taking the time to respond and look at my question. I really appreciate it!
Thank you Cynthia as well for all your advice and help as well!

Thank you for posting Marianna's birth record for me. I was just looking for it when I got your notification. This map is amazing! The part that I struggle with is finding the records themselves since not everything is in one place. I felt pretty confident that they were in the Mlawa area and Szrensk was the parish that I've seen most of them attending but then Maciej son Franciszek and wife Franczaka seemed to move away from there and then with the Prussia added I think I got confused along with her surname being more of a German surname.
You both have provided me with lots of new avenues I can look through and history to go back and read.
I appreciate everything!!! Thank you Thank you!
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